Bringing science and religion together around a common understanding of the origin of life.

[oyster67]

Israelite religion was started by Moon worshipers from Mesopotamia.

You are treading on very dangerous ground. Repent, for the day of the Lord is at hand.

Romans
1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

 

[SoulWeaver]

How does one determine what that Truth is? Fundamentalism is a form of idolatry because it makes the Bible into an idol to be interpreted by local leaders. In its modern form fundamentalism was basically started by Martin Luther and other reactionary Protestants in their fight against the Catholic Church. Because copies of Bibles could be printed inexpensively, everyone was supposed to read the Bible and be able to interpret it themselves. Few people, however, could do the extensive research necessary to figure out what passages meant within the context of the ancient authors. People were told to take the passages literally, unless it was an "obvious" metaphor. This insured that most of the ambiguous passages were interpreted in a manner contrary to their author's intent.

Why do you think @TabinRivCA to be a fundamentalist because they believe something is true? Do you not also believe and are convinced that some things are true?

 

[oyster67]

Besides philosophical compatibility, the evidence for Israelite religion coming from Mesopotamian Moon worship is that the founder came from the two cities that were the centers of Moon worship and his cohort had names from that subculture. What is your evidence against?

God's dealings with Abraham.

 

[SoulWeaver]

With which scripture do you back this up? The conclusion of Revelation is New Jerusalem which descends from heaven. It is not in heaven.

What do you believe "at hand" to mean?

 

[oyster67]

The best evidence is that the story of the great flood relates to an exceptionally large flood on the Indus River that destroyed the city of Aratta.

The best evidence is the Truth which is found in the Word of God. All who oppose this truth will be broken. You have been warned.

 

[SoulWeaver]

You are right. My statement was not consistent with "hid these things from the wise and prudent". I need some sleep too.

Appreciate your response.
Yes, that was one of the main points that I wanted to bring your attention to. And please don't get me wrong, it's beautiful that you're having a kind of study you enjoy.
But I wanted you to look at what the Bible itself states about who understands it, and who opens up the understanding of the Scripture, and that insights to be perceived are not by natural man methods (like study and reasoning) and seem foolish to those who use these methods.

 

[TabinRivCA]

We have no convincing evidence that God chooses to act in a supernatural way, especially when it relates to giant cities.
Btw There are ancient reports of an ark on Mt Ararat that is presumed to be have been built by survivalist cult. There is no evidence for a flood that reached to the top of Mt Ararat. The best evidence is that the story of the great flood relates to an exceptionally large flood on the Indus River that destroyed the city of Aratta.

The best evidence....according to who or what? You are outdated in whatever your resources are. The book 'The Ark of Ararat' details the story of an Armenian man who was taken up Mt Ararat by his uncle who knew the weather conditions of the mountain range. Many of the other explorers did not realize this important factor. The man's name
His uncle took him to the Ark, and the description he gives of a long, rectangular, petrified barge fits the Ark's description as well as the location.
'Without faith it is impossible to please God' .

 

[larens]

Romans
8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

You are not answering my question. I asked for a description of personal experience, not quotes from scripture.

 

[oyster67]

You are not answering my question. I asked for a description of personal experience, not quotes from scripture.

I have experienced a great change. Joy and peace that transcends any troubles or pain that might come my way. All things work together for good for those in Christ Jesus. His love can be experienced, It can be felt. Let Him into your heart today.

Please, my friend, do not neglect such great Salvation.

Hebrews
2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let [them] slip.
2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him];
2:4 God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing [that is] not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

 

[larens]

If so, the evidence is contained within what you just said yourself: that the founder came out of these places. The early people of the Bible always came out of the pagan societies and the prevalent practices of the day to seek the promise of God, they "ran to the hills" from the prevalent culture. The "setting themselves apart to the Lord" and being "a peculiar people" permeates the entire Bible from start to finish.

New religions split off from older ones and retain much of the culture of their predecessors. The most peculiar new part of the Israelite culture was its extreme literacy. They used an alphabet written on papyri to make their their literature mobile. Many of the surrounding cultures then copied from their practice. This mainly arose in the Canaanite subculture in Egypt after they were invited by the pharaoh in the 20th century BCE. Unfortunately, only a few instances of the initial written language survived by being written on stone.

 

[larens]

I have experienced a great change. Joy and peace that transcends any troubles or pain that might come my way. All things work together for good for those in Christ Jesus. His love can be experienced, It can be felt. Let Him into your heart today.

Please, my friend, do not neglect such great Salvation.

OK, that is a personal response. How am I to achieve this "great Salvation"? Your long list of Biblical quotes is of no help. It is just more cerebral activity.

 

[SoulWeaver]

New religions split off from older ones and retain much of the culture of their predecessors. The most peculiar new part of the Israelite culture was its extreme literacy. They used an alphabet written on papyri to make their their literature mobile. Many of the surrounding cultures then copied from their practice. This mainly arose in the Canaanite subculture in Egypt after they were invited by the pharaoh in the 20th century BCE. Unfortunately, only a few instances of the initial written language survived by being written on stone.

Not sure how that makes Abraham pagan, since that is the point you were making earlier. Judaism became really defined in its due time with Moses. Before that there is a time of the patriarchs who received promises of future salvation of mankind. Their sacrifices were really basic as the civilizations themselves, there was no religious system yet in place as it came later. Every thing in its own season. Gospel similarly came after the Romans built the infrastructure (the roads).

 

[oyster67]

New religions split off from older ones and retain much of the culture of their predecessors. The most peculiar new part of the Israelite culture was its extreme literacy. They used an alphabet written on papyri to make their their literature mobile. Many of the surrounding cultures then copied from their practice. This mainly arose in the Canaanite subculture in Egypt after they were invited by the pharaoh in the 20th century BCE. Unfortunately, only a few instances of the initial written language survived by being written on stone.

God is real. His Spirit is real. The relationship we have with Him is real.

 

[oyster67]

"OK, that is a personal response. How am I to achieve this "great Salvation"? "

You cannot.

That is why Jesus died on the Cross for you. The cost of this Great Salvation is infinitely high. Jesus' blood is of infinite worth. You must humbly and totally surrender to Jesus. You can trust Him and His love for you. He made you and gave His only Son, Jesus. It was the only way then, and it is the only way now. Turn from your own way and follow His way today. He wants to guide you and has a place prepared for you for all eternity.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[larens]

Not sure how that makes Abraham pagan, since that is the point you were making earlier. Judaism became really defined in its due time with Moses. Before that there is a time of the patriarchs who received promises of future salvation of mankind. Their sacrifices were really basic as the civilizations themselves, there was no religious system yet in place as it came later. Every thing in its own season. Gospel similarly came after the Romans built the infrastructure (the roads).

Judaism really became defined when the Israelite kingdom split to become Judea and Samaria. Earlier when Ramesses the Great came to power and asserted greater control over Canaan many, e.g., Moses, moved to trans-Jordan. Yet earlier Abraham came from Mesopotamia. Judaism developed over a long time. There is no definite point at which we can say it stopped being pagan, because "pagan" is an ill-defined term.

 

[larens]

"OK, that is a personal response. How am I to achieve this "great Salvation"? "

You cannot.

That is not a very friendly statement!

I am sure, however, that I will never experience what you experienced because I am a different person.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Judaism really became defined when the Israelite kingdom split to become Judea and Samaria. Earlier when Ramesses the Great came to power and asserted greater control over Canaan many, e.g., Moses, moved to trans-Jordan. Yet earlier Abraham came from Mesopotamia. Judaism developed over a long time. There is no definite point at which we can say it stopped being pagan, because "pagan" is an ill-defined term.

Well there were events like the golden calf, I agree that there was definitely a period of people un-learning idolatry wholesale, that's what they went out of. Later on they stumbled by worshipping the brazen serpent and crying for Tammuz and whatnot. But this is all faithfully noted in the Bible, the Bible is not disagreeing with that. The prophets were prophesying against idolatry all the time and there were people constantly bringing it into the land. It's all over the Old testament. The Bible isn't shy about recounting these things to us, nor hiding them. And once again, this fact doesn't make the patriarchs or the prophets pagan, using a broad definition of pagan at that.

 

[larens]

Well there were events like the golden calf, I agree that there was definitely a period of people un-learning idolatry wholesale, that's what they went out of. Later on they stumbled by worshipping the brazen serpent and crying for Tammuz and whatnot. But this is all faithfully noted in the Bible, the Bible is not disagreeing with that. The prophets were prophesying against idolatry all the time and there were people constantly bringing it into the land. It's all over the Old testament. The Bible isn't shy about recounting these things to us, nor hiding them. And once again, this fact doesn't make the patriarchs or the prophets pagan, using a broad definition of pagan at that.

I never said they were pagan. Please stop making me respond to you by insinuating that I said something that I did not.

 

[SoulWeaver]

I never said they were pagan. Please stop making me respond to you by insinuating that I said something that I did not.

Well you did equate the faith of Biblical patriarchs with moon worship. That would effectively make them pagan. A moon worshiper is someone who bows to the moon like a god. And common people might bow to the object while the priesthood as usual with pagan mysteries knows the inner "mysteries" and bow to the archetype of intellect or whatever concept they want the moon to be, but either way it's pagan idolatry.

 

[SoulWeaver]

I never said they were pagan. Please stop making me respond to you by insinuating that I said something that I did not.

Read up on pagan mysteries and you'll see why I'm saying what I'm saying. What you suggested was a pagan mystery religion. It was not. The prophets and priests were never privileged in that way in Judaism in fact the prophets were often the most destitute. The priests only did the job of interceding for the people and atoning, being a figure of Christ that was to come, and the prophetic insights were shared with the people and they we're often murdered when people didn't want to accept the truth. There is some hidden inner wisdom in the Bible, but it's accessible to all equally if they pursue it spiritually, it is not a matter of position in the congregation and it being secretly taught to the priesthood like in pagan mysteries.