God born as man - any reference in old testament?

[User46952]

From Jews point of view,
How to prove the following from old testament (not from new testament)?
1. How to prove that God would born as a human, and the human can be worshipped as God?
2. How to prove that Messiah should be the God, but not just a man anointed by God?

Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53 explain about the suffering, but do not answer the above I think.

 

[Bbrdrd]

This is an interesting question, and I'd say the most obvious places where the Messiah is predicted to be God Himself rather than a normal man is in Ezekiel 34, Jeremiah 31, and Isaiah 9. Additionally, as Jesus pointed out there is the issue of David calling one of his descendants lord. After all, why would a son of David be the lord of David and not the other way around?

The most difficult question to overcome is the one about a human being worshiped as God, especially with Balaam's declaration in Numbers. This objection seems best to appeal to the context of Balaam's speech, the individual speaking, and the numerous appearances of an "angel of the Lord" that is presented.

Ultimately, though, the issue is a matter of the heart. Those who know God will recognize in Jesus the very heart of God and no amount of arguing will bend someone whose heart is against Jesus into seeing Him.

 

[PennEd]

Right here:


Genesis 3:15
New King James Version

15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between (A)your seed and (B)her Seed;
(C)He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

 

[SoulWeaver]

Zechariah 11:
10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me MY PRICE; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for MY PRICE thirty pieces of silver.
13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to TO THE POTTER IN THE HOUSE OF THE LORD.

Matthew 26:15 And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.
Matthew 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
Matthew 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver IN THE TEMPLE, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Matthew 27:7 And they took counsel, and bought with them THE POTTER'S FIELD, to bury strangers in.


Why does Matthew 27:9 attribute the prophecy to Jeremiah when it is from Zechariah?

 

[soggykitten]

Genesis 32 is the most memorable as far as saying God met man as a man face to face.
Then there is, Genesis 18:1-33, Exodus 24:9, Ezekiel 1 and also chapter 2. Those are all I can recall right now.

 

[Journeyman]

I will be thyking: where is any otherthat may save thee in all thycities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes? Hos.13:10

 

[Scribe]

Gen 3:15 and the virgin birth Is 7:14. Also many of the Isaiah prophecies about the Servant.
Matt 22
41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? 46And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

If this was convincing to Jewish scholars at the time of Christ it probably still is. But finding anyone that has an open mind in the Jewish community is rare. It still requires a complete family rejection to follow Christ. They have to pay a greater price than most people when they decide to follow Jesus. It is one thing to intellectually wonder at the beauty of the truth found in these scriptures concerning the humanity and divinity in the prophesied messiah, it is another thing altogether to decide to face the wholesale excommunication of family and community and everything you have ever known by deciding to follow Jesus.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hello @User46952, here is a verse and a short passage that you may find helpful.

Matthew 1:23/Isaiah 7:14​

“BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”​

​

Isaiah 9​

6 Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:​

And the government shall be upon his shoulder:​

And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God,​

The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.​

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,​

Upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom,​

To order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice​

From henceforth even for ever.​

The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.​

~Deut

 

[Mattathias]

From Jews point of view,
How to prove the following from old testament (not from new testament)?
1. How to prove that God would born as a human, and the human can be worshipped as God?
2. How to prove that Messiah should be the God, but not just a man anointed by God?

Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53 explain about the suffering, but do not answer the above I think.

From Jews point of view, the two cannot be proven from the Old Testament.

 

[Scribe]

From Jews point of view,
How to prove the following from old testament (not from new testament)?
1. How to prove that God would born as a human, and the human can be worshipped as God?
2. How to prove that Messiah should be the God, but not just a man anointed by God?

Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53 explain about the suffering, but do not answer the above I think.

Dan 7
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

 

[iamsoandso]

From Jews point of view,
How to prove the following from old testament (not from new testament)?
1. How to prove that God would born as a human, and the human can be worshipped as God?
2. How to prove that Messiah should be the God, but not just a man anointed by God?

Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53 explain about the suffering, but do not answer the above I think.

You don't believe Jesus is the almighty God do you?

 

[dcontroversal]

"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

 

[Adstar]

From Jews point of view,
How to prove the following from old testament (not from new testament)?
1. How to prove that God would born as a human, and the human can be worshipped as God?
2. How to prove that Messiah should be the God, but not just a man anointed by God?

Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53 explain about the suffering, but do not answer the above I think.

Isaiah 9: KJV
{6} For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. {7} Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."

 

[Mattathias]

You don't believe Jesus is the almighty God do you?

I can’t speak for User46952. I’d like to hear his response to your question.

While we wait: I believe the God and Father of Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - Almighty God.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[FlyingDove]

From Jews point of view,
How to prove the following from old testament (not from new testament)?
1. How to prove that God would born as a human, and the human can be worshipped as God?
2. How to prove that Messiah should be the God, but not just a man anointed by God?

Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53 explain about the suffering, but do not answer the above I think.

Micah 5:2 Oh Bethlehem, you are little to be among the clans of Judah; out of you shall One come forth for Me Who is to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth have been from old, from everlasting.

 

[posthuman]

I can’t speak for User46952. I’d like to hear his response to your question.

While we wait: I believe the God and Father of Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - Almighty God.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

​

pardon me, but that's not the question that was posed.

'great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh'​

​

for a large collection of scriptural evidence, please see: https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/christ-is-god.153694/

 

[bluto]

From Jews point of view,
How to prove the following from old testament (not from new testament)?
1. How to prove that God would born as a human, and the human can be worshipped as God?
2. How to prove that Messiah should be the God, but not just a man anointed by God?

Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53 explain about the suffering, but do not answer the above I think.

I like Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I am going to send My Messenger, and he will clear the way before ME, And the LORD whom you seek, will suddenly come to HIS; and the messenger of the covenant , in WHOM you delight, behold HE is coming, says the LORD og hosts."

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[FlyingDove]

I can’t speak for User46952. I’d like to hear his response to your question.

While we wait: I believe the God and Father of Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - Almighty God.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

OT Jehovah is Jesus pre-incarnation:

Zech 12:8-10 Identifies Jehovah with Jesus Christ
8) The LORD (Jehovah) defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; & he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; & the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them

9) it shall come to pass in that day, "I" will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem

10) I will pour upon the house of David, & upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace & of supplications & they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, & they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, & shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first born

In verse 8 the LORD, (Jehovah), is speaking. In verses 9 & 10 the pronoun, "I", refers to the same LORD, or Jehovah "I" will seek to destroy & "I" will pout out upon the house of David

"""Here's the real key"""
Vs 10 they shall look upon me (Jehovah) whom they pierced & they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, & shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first born

Clearly, Jehovah is stating He vis the One that shall be pierced & mourned for.

Jesus is the pre-incarnation OT Jehovah:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NOTE: Jesus is the Word Rev 19:13)

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(NOTE: The Word/Jesus that was with & was God created all things)

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
(NOTE: The Word/Jesus that was with & was God created the world)

14 (A) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(NOTE: The pre-existing Word/Jesus became flesh)

Jn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(NOTE: See Ex 3:14)

 

[EleventhHour]

"My people, hear my teaching;
listen to the words of my mouth.
I will open my mouth with a parable;
I will utter hidden things, things from of old" (Psalm 78:1–2)

 

[crossnote]

The Incarnation was a mystery revealed in the NT.

1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.