is Christ able to bear the cross?

[posthuman]

And when they had mocked Him, they took the robe off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him away to be crucified.​

Now as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name. Him they compelled to bear His cross. And when they had come to a place called Golgotha, that is to say, Place of a Skull, they gave Him sour wine mingled with gall to drink. But when He had tasted it, He would not drink. ​

(Matthew 27:31-34)

​

And when they had mocked Him, they took the purple off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him out to crucify Him.​

Then they compelled a certain man, Simon a Cyrenian, the father of Alexander and Rufus, as he was coming out of the country and passing by, to bear His cross. And they brought Him to the place Golgotha, which is translated, Place of a Skull.​

(Mark 15:20-22)

​

Now as they led Him away, they laid hold of a certain man, Simon a Cyrenian, who was coming from the country, and on him they laid the cross that he might bear it after Jesus.​

And a great multitude of the people followed Him, and women who also mourned and lamented Him. But Jesus, turning to them, said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!’ Then they will begin ‘to say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!” ’ For if they do these things in the green wood, what will be done in the dry?”​

(Luke 23:26-31)​

​

​

sermon after sermon i have heard explains that the Son of God was too weak to carry the cross, that the exact representation of God manifest in the flesh did not have the strength to shoulder what should have been our burden.

the text doesn't actually say this.


why was Simon compelled to carry Christ's cross?
what is the significance?

 

[posthuman]

for bonus points, what's the real reason it's called Golgatha -- an Aramaic name translated more or less as 'place of the skull' ?

 

[p_rehbein]

ANSWER:

No one truly knows why. The speculations run wildly towards Christ stumbling, but I can not find a single Scripture that states this to be true. The actual reason(s) could run a gambit far beyond our imagination, thus, to speculate is to go against what Scripture teaches us.

Our beliefs (faith) is to be BASED on the Word of God and not speculations. See Romans, Chapter 10, vs. 17.
In 1st Thessalonians we are told to "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. " Chapter 5, vs.21

Do not base your faith/beliefs on the words/speculations of man, or even a Denomination, rather, the Word of God IS to be the foundation of ALL your beliefs/faith IMO.

(sorry if I didn't go the way you may have expected........)

 

[Nehemiah6]

why was Simon compelled to carry Christ's cross?

It should be obvious from the narrative leading up to this that Jesus was in no physical condition to carry that heavy cross all the way to Golgotha. That is not because He was physically weak, but because of the physical punishment he had already suffered. Most prisoners who were lashed with a whip practically collapsed at the end of the punishment.

 

[posthuman]

It should be obvious from the narrative leading up to this that Jesus was in no physical condition to carry that heavy cross all the way to Golgotha. That is not because He was physically weak, but because of the physical punishment he had already suffered. Most prisoners who were lashed with a whip practically collapsed at the end of the punishment.

do you think He died from His injuries?

 

[posthuman]

(sorry if I didn't go the way you may have expected........)

i'm glad you didn't

 

[Nehemiah6]

do you think He died from His injuries?

Actually Christ CHOSE the exact moment of His death, after having paid the full penalty for the sins of the whole world. The Bible says that He dismissed His spirit, and Christ Himself said that He would lay down His life, and take it up again.

While His injuries were undoubtedly very great, the suffering for sins within His holy soul was even greater. There is no question that crucifixion was an extreme form of punishment which resulted in the eventual death of the one crucified. But when the soldiers went to the three crosses, they broke the legs of the two criminals (to bring about immediate death). However, Christ has already given up the ghost before the expected time of death. Therefore "a bone of him would not be broken".

JOHN 19: CHRIST THE PASSOVER LAMB WHOSE BONES WERE NOT BROKEN
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

When the Jews observed Passover, they were forbidden to break the bones of the Passover lamb. This prefigured Christ as our Passover: The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, and eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it. (Num 9:11,12).

 

[Grandpa]

I thought it was because the Romans took pity on Christs condition and didn't want to kill Him before He made it to His Crucifixion.

Not sure why I thought this.

I also thought Golgotha was the place of an earlier cemetary.

 

[crossnote]

And when they had mocked Him, they took the robe off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him away to be crucified.​

Now as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name. Him they compelled to bear His cross. And when they had come to a place called Golgotha, that is to say, Place of a Skull, they gave Him sour wine mingled with gall to drink. But when He had tasted it, He would not drink. ​

(Matthew 27:31-34)​

​

​

And when they had mocked Him, they took the purple off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him out to crucify Him.​

Then they compelled a certain man, Simon a Cyrenian, the father of Alexander and Rufus, as he was coming out of the country and passing by, to bear His cross. And they brought Him to the place Golgotha, which is translated, Place of a Skull.​

(Mark 15:20-22)​

​

​

Now as they led Him away, they laid hold of a certain man, Simon a Cyrenian, who was coming from the country, and on him they laid the cross that he might bear it after Jesus.​

And a great multitude of the people followed Him, and women who also mourned and lamented Him. But Jesus, turning to them, said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!’ Then they will begin ‘to say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!” ’ For if they do these things in the green wood, what will be done in the dry?”​

(Luke 23:26-31)​

​

​

sermon after sermon i have heard explains that the Son of God was too weak to carry the cross, that the exact representation of God manifest in the flesh did not have the strength to shoulder what should have been our burden.

the text doesn't actually say this.


why was Simon compelled to carry Christ's cross?
what is the significance?

I believe the answer is found here...

Philippians 2:6-8 (KJV) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[Nehemiah6]

for bonus points, what's the real reason it's called Golgatha -- an Aramaic name translated more or less as 'place of the skull' ?

Some say that Mount Calvary had the appearance of a skull when viewed from a distance.


It is also possible that it has been used for past crucifixions, and the bodies of criminals were left there to eventually becomes skeletons and skulls.

MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY
Some think that it was called the place of a skull, because it was the common charnel-house, where the bones and skulls of dead men were laid together out of the way, lest people should touch them, and be defiled thereby. Here lay the trophies of death’s victory over multitudes of the children of men; and when by dying Christ would destroy death, he added this circumstance of honour to his victory, that he triumphed over death upon his own dunghill.

 

[garee]

And when they had mocked Him, they took the robe off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him away to be crucified.​

Now as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name. Him they compelled to bear His cross. And when they had come to a place called Golgotha, that is to say, Place of a Skull, they gave Him sour wine mingled with gall to drink. But when He had tasted it, He would not drink. ​

(Matthew 27:31-34)​

​

​

And when they had mocked Him, they took the purple off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him out to crucify Him.​

Then they compelled a certain man, Simon a Cyrenian, the father of Alexander and Rufus, as he was coming out of the country and passing by, to bear His cross. And they brought Him to the place Golgotha, which is translated, Place of a Skull.​

(Mark 15:20-22)​

​

​

Now as they led Him away, they laid hold of a certain man, Simon a Cyrenian, who was coming from the country, and on him they laid the cross that he might bear it after Jesus.​

And a great multitude of the people followed Him, and women who also mourned and lamented Him. But Jesus, turning to them, said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!’ Then they will begin ‘to say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!” ’ For if they do these things in the green wood, what will be done in the dry?”​

(Luke 23:26-31)​

​

​

sermon after sermon i have heard explains that the Son of God was too weak to carry the cross, that the exact representation of God manifest in the flesh did not have the strength to shoulder what should have been our burden.

the text doesn't actually say this.


why was Simon compelled to carry Christ's cross?
what is the significance?

Christian do suffer with Christ being yoked with him our burden is made lighter .He is our Sabbath rest.

Many like Catholiscim are used to represent unredeemed mankind having no faith coming from the scripture alone (sola scriptura) And need to extend the sufferings even past death in a place they call purgatory. Having that unknown in respect to no end of or kind of sufferings leaving a person in the place of doubt wondering that which opposes faith believing. .

They do despite to the grace of God. a judgeable or damnable heresy as a opinion of men saying. . . a queen of heaven named Mary alone received the fullness of Christ's work of grace all others a unknow remnant .

They as a picture of unbelief (no faith) say our sufferings must be added to His, using Colossians verse to try and justify .

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

The poisonous arrows of the evil one. . directed at Christ not seen come on us seen by the accuser of the brethren.

But we are made ware of the wile of the evil one who hates all flesh. Himself not having flesh is not subject to the gospel .

Its kill them all. He is a murder or serial killer from the beginnings .

Did God say? You will not surely die? look at me an live . as a supposed living proof to support the lying wonder.

.We walk by faith the unseen eternal

 

[posthuman]

this image is pretty obviously photoshopped. someone has manipulated it, painting dark blobs on the rock face.

when viewed from a distance.

here is a view from a greater distance:

 

[posthuman]

I believe the answer is found here...

Philippians 2:6-8 (KJV) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

that sure sounds like it is His own doing, bro.
not that 'events beyond His control' led to this.

so i do not think that the majority view -- which @Nehemiah6 is always faithful to recite for us in my threads -- is correct. to me it is suspiciously shallow, and the facts are that the text does not say the things the majority view asserts.

if no one could take Christ's life from Him, but He lays it down Himself exactly when and exactly how He chooses, then neither could anyone take His strength from Him. we see that clearly on the cross, that He delivered His spirit, and the centurions guarding Him, who had seen hundreds of men die, were amazed and convicted that He is the Son of God, saying no one ever died like this.

do we not suppose that it was similarly Christ's will that this North African man Simeon, most likely a diaspora Jew in town for Passover, be compelled to carry the cross? no one causes Him to die; He gives His life. why then should i accept this idea that soldiers caused Him to be unable to bear our burden -- why should i accept this idea that in any way shape or form Christ Jesus was ever "unable" to do anything?
and especially on a matter like this, the tremendous symbol of the cross, where all our sins are laid? i am to believe that God incarnate doesn't have the strength to bear it? that mere mortal men can prevent Him?

i believe it was impossible that even a drop of His blood be spilled unless He consciously willed and allowed it. i do not conceive of Jesus in these hours as someone to be pitied, but to be astounded by.

 

[posthuman]

I also thought Golgotha was the place of an earlier cemetary.

yes i believe it has this Aramaic name because it's the place where a bit of corpse was buried some 1,070 years prior

 

[posthuman]

Actually Christ CHOSE the exact moment of His death, after having paid the full penalty for the sins of the whole world. The Bible says that He dismissed His spirit, and Christ Himself said that He would lay down His life, and take it up again.

if He has all power to choose whether to live or deliver His spirit, do you not think He has power to chose to carry the cross or not?
you agree that man has no power to take His life -- why would you say man has power to take something less, the strength of His back?

what is the significance of carrying the cross to the place of "the skull" ?

what is the significance of the fact that Jesus did not carry it all the way there ?

according to the traditional view you related, what would the significance be if Christ wasn't strong enough to bear it?

 

[posthuman]

what is the significance of the fact that Jesus did not carry it all the way there ?

why would God choose not to?
does anyone here think the soldiers could make Him?
does anyone think any man could make Him do anything it wasn't His will to do?

 

[posthuman]

here's what may be a clue:

i heard on a radio program decades ago, that a man carrying his cross, walking outside the city to the place of execution, was a public display of his guilt. in carrying the implement of his judgement, parading through the city streets, he is giving a public confession that he merits his sentence and is deserving of death.

if this is true ((and it may not be -- it might be just another popular religious mythos)), if it is the case that to carry the cross is to publicly confess that you are guilty and worthy of death, then is this something it makes sense for Jesus Christ the spotless Lamb to do?

if it's something He would not do, then would He not do it because He's too weak and battered & unable, or because no one can force Him to - just as no one can accuse Him of sin, and no one can take His life from Him?

 

[Nehemiah6]

you agree that man has no power to take His life -- why would you say man has power to take something less, the strength of His back?

Christ was fully human. Therefore He suffered physically as a man. Does that answer your question?

Christ was also fully divine. Thus He dismissed His spirit after He finished His work of redemption. When He cried "It is finished!" with a loud voice, that was a cry of victory. Therefore He chose His moment of death.

 

[JaumeJ]

While on Kibbutz Mishmar HaNegev in 1972-73, I was able to make sev eral dtrips throughout Israel and occupied Jordan. On one of these visits, to Jerusalem, I vised Gologotha, and it does resemble a skull, and those phtos brought it all back. Above is where our Savior was crucified, and below, in a grave hewn out of one large rock formation is the tombe. It had a clot carved out of the very stone of the crypt for the sstone to roll shut, or opne for that matter. I was allowed to go in, and on the one wall to my right was what looked to be a slightly hollowed out ledge, again out of the same stone . It was rectangular, and I do believe it is where our Lord was put to rest, though death could not keep Him.

Now it may be I am wrong about it, but I do not believe so. The photos above seem asuthentic.

 

[posthuman]

Christ was fully human. Therefore He suffered physically as a man. Does that answer your question?

nope.

didn't this same Jesus ride a foal -- a baby, unweened from its mother -- into Jerusalem?
this is miraculous. you go out and find one of these and see if it can even support a 20lb bag of rice -- yet Christ, a man at least 150lbs, with coats too, sat atop it.

and my question is what is the significance of your view in which Almighty God is too weak to carry your burden?
you ain't touched that one yet.