Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot
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The truth is the truth and the truth is simple...You are a religionist, peddling that which is false, all your false points have been refuted by many, your dishonesty is seen by all with eyes open and the only thing being proven other than what I listed is your hypocrisy.....exactly why many have you on ignore and most discuss you behind the scenes....but hey...I bet your people think you are all that and a bag of spiritual chips hey.....pride goes before a fall and a haughty spirit before destruction....your time is short and you will answer for all the deceit you peddle....good luck!
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@dcontroversal knows and brings TRUTH as well as countless who are non-Calvinists.
All else aside, that still puts him and others light years ahead. God is pleased when truth is guarded.
Is all your ad hominem because you cannot defend the indefensible?
All else aside, that still puts him and others light years ahead. God is pleased when truth is guarded.
Is all your ad hominem because you cannot defend the indefensible?
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If you believe God actually hates about 90% of his creation and has them damned them to hell without hope or a prayer and not because of anything they have done, but rather for his own pleasure, what more license do you need to feel the same way?
Even if you say 'I don't know who they are'... what are the odds you'll be wrong if you do choose to hate someone? This was Calvin's justification for burning heretics without regret.
He actually believed was doing God a favor. It is antithetical to the command of Christ to love your enemy.
What a sad dogma to uphold.
Even if you say 'I don't know who they are'... what are the odds you'll be wrong if you do choose to hate someone? This was Calvin's justification for burning heretics without regret.
He actually believed was doing God a favor. It is antithetical to the command of Christ to love your enemy.
What a sad dogma to uphold.
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Yes just like I asserted.....
You do not have to worry about your reputation getting in the way of who you truly are! Yet those who might be persuaded are
treated ever so gently.... exploit their vulnerabilities, that is how Calvinism works right, it is well documented.
Noted by another, many have left sadly....
You do not have to worry about your reputation getting in the way of who you truly are! Yet those who might be persuaded are
treated ever so gently.... exploit their vulnerabilities, that is how Calvinism works right, it is well documented.
Noted by another, many have left sadly....
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we should maybe seek the Spirit's guidance in many things, beliefs, ideas not just Stay with what we Already think we know, because God knows More than Any of Us. there is not necessarily a need to believe in any other's belief/beliefs/isms/religion.
there are Bibles, there is God, there is the internet to Search with, there is the Spirit of God that will or can lead us into all Truth.
but if certain beliefs help us or we feel drawn to them then maybe that is where we can be helped at any certain point in our Walk with God in spiritual growth and Change.
that said, those who make up belief systems or promote them very much to others should be reminded of this verse:
◄ James 3:1 ►
New Living Translation
Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged more strictly.
English Standard Version
Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.
Berean Literal Bible
Not many of you should be teachers my brothers, knowing that we will receive greater judgment.
New American Standard Bible
Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
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John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Well that was easy. Really John 6:44 all by itself tells you of your inability. John 15:5 just nails it home.
Its only a response and a recognition because God has first Drawn the individual to Him. Otherwise, the magic words would work on everyone. The same words, the same preaching that would bring one Salvation would bring all.
Because you would have to ask yourself, why was I smart enough to respond to the gospel but those other 50 were not? I must be really smart, wise, great, full of discernment, etc... But Gods Word says the opposite. Not many mighty, not many wise... No flesh shall glory in His Presence.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Well that was easy. Really John 6:44 all by itself tells you of your inability. John 15:5 just nails it home.
Its only a response and a recognition because God has first Drawn the individual to Him. Otherwise, the magic words would work on everyone. The same words, the same preaching that would bring one Salvation would bring all.
Because you would have to ask yourself, why was I smart enough to respond to the gospel but those other 50 were not? I must be really smart, wise, great, full of discernment, etc... But Gods Word says the opposite. Not many mighty, not many wise... No flesh shall glory in His Presence.
I quote Romans to you and you don't believe it.
Romans 9:21-24
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Romans 9:21-24
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
You keep proof texting John 6:44, are you really building an entire system of theology off of a single out of context verse?
Especially since no where in there is some mystical inability due to sin, but Jesus pointing at who He is which can be seen when we consider the rest of the pericope:
" It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh. "
So no, Jesus is not excluding people from salvation in John 6:44 but is instead inviting the audience that is rejecting Him into that very salvation.
And with John 15:5 it is again not about us being so depraved that we are unable to recognize and respond to the gospel. Otherwise when Jesus said "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. " in John 5:30 He was saying He was total depraved.
So how about you find a verse that actually says that our sin prevents us from even being able to produce a genuine response to the gospel rather than twisting verses that have absolutely nothing to do with our sinful state to try to make the Bible say what you want it to.
Especially since no where in there is some mystical inability due to sin, but Jesus pointing at who He is which can be seen when we consider the rest of the pericope:
" It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh. "
So no, Jesus is not excluding people from salvation in John 6:44 but is instead inviting the audience that is rejecting Him into that very salvation.
And with John 15:5 it is again not about us being so depraved that we are unable to recognize and respond to the gospel. Otherwise when Jesus said "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. " in John 5:30 He was saying He was total depraved.
So how about you find a verse that actually says that our sin prevents us from even being able to produce a genuine response to the gospel rather than twisting verses that have absolutely nothing to do with our sinful state to try to make the Bible say what you want it to.
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I wasn't even speaking of sin. I was speaking of total inability.
Keep reading John 6:44. Maybe it will sink in. Its really simple.
No one can come to Christ, I.E. Salvation, unless they are drawn by the Father.
Once they are drawn by the Father they are Saved, eternally.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
It is not merely sin that is preventing people from responding to the gospel. It is everything in this world.
2 Corinthians 4:3-7
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Why is it so difficult to say that there was nothing in me that was drawn to Godliness, but rather it was Gods Leading that brought me to Salvation?
You really think you are smart enough to perfectly follow the instructions of the Gospel while simultaneously your mind is being blinded by the god of this world?
That last one was rhetorical. You aren't. No one is.
Keep reading John 6:44. Maybe it will sink in. Its really simple.
No one can come to Christ, I.E. Salvation, unless they are drawn by the Father.
Once they are drawn by the Father they are Saved, eternally.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
It is not merely sin that is preventing people from responding to the gospel. It is everything in this world.
2 Corinthians 4:3-7
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Why is it so difficult to say that there was nothing in me that was drawn to Godliness, but rather it was Gods Leading that brought me to Salvation?
You really think you are smart enough to perfectly follow the instructions of the Gospel while simultaneously your mind is being blinded by the god of this world?
That last one was rhetorical. You aren't. No one is.
So you're redefining the doctrine of total inability from being the inhibition of sin making us unable to respond to the gospel? As I said, John 6:44 says no such thing about our inability as it is about those who submit to the teaching of the Father that it is revealed Jesus is the Christ which is shown in the verses that follow. That is a totally different thing from being prevented by some inherent inability.
Now you're bringing into the picture Satan blinding people? Which is it, is it that we lack a capacity, God prevents some from coming, or Satan? None of those verses speak to a total inability, especially as it is commonly held by Calvinists that the will is bound by sin.
If you want to re-define doctrine you've abandoned Calvinism and instead are defending an entirely different doctrine.
With all of that I can't tell if you are arguing in bad faith or not.
Now you're bringing into the picture Satan blinding people? Which is it, is it that we lack a capacity, God prevents some from coming, or Satan? None of those verses speak to a total inability, especially as it is commonly held by Calvinists that the will is bound by sin.
If you want to re-define doctrine you've abandoned Calvinism and instead are defending an entirely different doctrine.
With all of that I can't tell if you are arguing in bad faith or not.
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I can quote it too pal...
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
And what you quoted does not even come close to proving the evil Calvinistic error that you and your pals embrace and peddle as fact.....
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
And what you quoted does not even come close to proving the evil Calvinistic error that you and your pals embrace and peddle as fact.....
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I don't believe that a person can read and understand the gospel, until God quicken's them to life. The gospel is a spiritual message so the natural/carnal man cannot understand it.
After much careful study of the topic of salvation, I have arrived at the conclusion that God is the One who initiates and finishes the work of salvation. We have absolutely 0% input into our salvation, since we are all born dead and dead people can do nothing at all.
The Bible makes it crystal clear that God chose His elect before He created the world, so we would need to deny God's word if we were to claim that we have some input into the work of salvation.
After much careful study of the topic of salvation, I have arrived at the conclusion that God is the One who initiates and finishes the work of salvation. We have absolutely 0% input into our salvation, since we are all born dead and dead people can do nothing at all.
The Bible makes it crystal clear that God chose His elect before He created the world, so we would need to deny God's word if we were to claim that we have some input into the work of salvation.
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