By Works

[Jackson123]

i showed you some passages that contradict your interpretation

Thank for responding my post.
Give me passage that contradict

Luke 10.
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

You may expect Jesus agree faith doesn't mean to love you God with all your strength
Oh that is work salvation

So ok to hate God and still save, because grace salvation

You may not expect love your neighbor like yourself in conection with what shall we do for eternal life

Because you make your own bible and say for salvation, rob the bank and kill don't need repent as long as you believe Jesus is God.

So I am begging you to interprate this passage please?

Tell me is there is correlation between love and faith
Read also James how he teach the correlation between love and faith

Tell me why Jesus say no abide > burn.

What is your interpretation?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Because you make your own bible

They go to the Greek to make their own Bible.

They come up with renderings not found in any literal Bible translations.

The blind leading the blind...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank for responding my post.
Give me passage that contradict

Luke 10.
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

You may expect Jesus agree faith doesn't mean to love you God with all your strength
Oh that is work salvation

So ok to hate God and still save, because grace salvation

You may not expect love your neighbor like yourself in conection with what shall we do for eternal life

Because you make your own bible and say for salvation, rob the bank and kill don't need repent as long as you believe Jesus is God.

So I am begging you to interprate this passage please?

Tell me is there is correlation between love and faith
Read also James how he teach the correlation between love and faith

Tell me why Jesus say no abide > burn.

What is your interpretation?

You have yet to respond to the passages I gave. Don’t ask again until you resolve them

 

[Jackson123]

They go to the Greek to make their own Bible.

They come up with renderings not found in any literal Bible translations.

The blind leading the blind...

I don't speak Greek that is the problem my brother.

 

[Jackson123]

You have yet to respond to the passages I gave. Don’t ask again until you resolve them

Thanks again for your patience

You want me response john 3:16 ?

Whosoever believe in Jesus have eternal life?

What is believe mean? Just believe Jesus is God?

Believe Jesus God than kill and rob go to heaven?

James 2:19

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”

If so Devil have the same quality of believe, my brother

Believe is obey or follow his teaching

Did He teach to rob the bank no need repent go to heaven?

His teaching say for salvation, not only for reward

You need to love God with all your strength and love your neighbor like yourself

Not to rob or kill your neighbor and still save, only lose your reward.

And what verse say killing no need to repent only lose your reward.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thanks again for your patience

You want me response john 3:16 ?

Whosoever believe in Jesus have eternal life?

What is believe mean? Just believe Jesus is God?

Believe Jesus God than kill and rob go to heaven?

James 2:19

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”

If so Devil have the same quality of believe, my brother

Believe is obey or follow his teaching

Did He teach to rob the bank no need repent go to heaven?

His teaching say for salvation, not only for reward

You need to love God with all your strength and love your neighbor like yourself

Not to rob or kill your neighbor and still save, only lose your reward.

And what verse say killing no need to repent only lose your reward.

we agree

now what did Jesus promise them that had saving faith? He promised it in John 3 John 4 and John 6?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't speak Greek that is the problem my brother.

You do not need to, just look up any Greek word and you will see it’s defenition. God did not leave us wanting with no way to see what men wrote

 

[Jackson123]

we agree

now what did Jesus promise them that had saving faith? He promised it in John 3 John 4 and John 6?

I am not say bible talk about saving faith, I say Martin Luther say

For salvation we need faith alone but faith that saved never alone.

Now john 4 and 6 what verse?

 

[Bbrdrd]

You do not need to, just look up any Greek word and you will see it’s defenition. God did not leave us wanting with no way to see what men wrote

It's not quite that simple, especially since Greek has some grammatical constructs English doesn't.

They go to the Greek to make their own Bible.

They come up with renderings not found in any literal Bible translations.

The blind leading the blind...

Going to the Greek isn't making your own Bible, it's recognizing that translation is not an exact science and sometimes translators get things wrong. This is especially true when there is ambiguity in the grammar but there is a historic precedence for prefering one translation.

It's less common in Greek than Hebrew since Greek is a grammatical language, but grammars can leave multiple meanings that context doesn't always resolve. Simply going with historic theologies doesn't necessarily get the best meaning, so wrestling with the languages in earnest is a positive not a detriment.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Going to the Greek isn't making your own Bible, it's recognizing that translation is not an exact science and sometimes translators get things wrong.

It’s been gotten right with the only translation that has stood the test of time in the current global language, the Authorized Version set forth in 1611:

“English, being the first world language, is said to be the first global lingua franca and it is the most widely used language in the world in international trade, diplomacy, mass entertainment, international telecommunications and scientific publications as well as publishing newspapers and other books.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not say bible talk about saving faith, I say Martin Luther say

For salvation we need faith alone but faith that saved never alone.

Now john 4 and 6 what verse?

Your not answering my question

what did Jesus say those who have saving faith (which is never alone) has?

i told you above, did you read my post about those passages and others?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's not quite that simple, especially since Greek has some grammatical constructs English doesn't.


Going to the Greek isn't making your own Bible, it's recognizing that translation is not an exact science and sometimes translators get things wrong. This is especially true when there is ambiguity in the grammar but there is a historic precedence for prefering one translation.

It's less common in Greek than Hebrew since Greek is a grammatical language, but grammars can leave multiple meanings that context doesn't always resolve. Simply going with historic theologies doesn't necessarily get the best meaning, so wrestling with the languages in earnest is a positive not a detriment.

While this may be true, in many cases it is not. And is also not the only determining factor, context and historical context also. Just be used.

one thing to remember is the English is limited, where the Greek is more precise, and example is the English word love is a translation for 4 different Greek words. We also have non english words which were bade by transliteration Greek words. For example. Christ is not a translation but a Transliteration of the Greek word Christos, which is a translation of the Hebrew messiah, Jesus comes from iosus Which is Greek or the hebrew yeshua (I think Joshua?) which is his real name, Baptize is another often misused word whcih is not native to English, it comes from Baptizo) So in these cases we need to find the Greek defenition to find the true defenition of the word.

in this case. The word “takes away” is not even a possible interpretation that I can find. Especially when it comes to being a vinedresser

 

[Micaiah-imla]

The word “takes away” is not even a possible interpretation that I can find.

This is insanity.

All translations render John 15:2 “taken away/cut off” in reference to the unfruitful branches.

Who do you think you are?

Sure, make the Bible say what you want it to say instead of letting the Bible correct you.

The problem has been the same since the Hebrews had the scriptures in THEIR OWN language without the excuse of “language translation impossibilities”...

THEY DID NOT WANT TO OBEY IT!!

And the same stiffnecked, disobedient, attitude exists today. There’s nothing new under the sun.

 

[Jackson123]

Your not answering my question

what did Jesus say those who have saving faith (which is never alone) has?

i told you above, did you read my post about those passages and others?

I don't understand your question, did Jesus ever say saving faith? As far as I know, Martin Luther say the faith that save never alone, not Jesus.

About john 4 and 6 I need to know what verse?

 

[Bbrdrd]

It’s been gotten right with the only translation that has stood the test of time in the current global language, the Authorized Version set forth in 1611:

“English, being the first world language, is said to be the first global lingua franca and it is the most widely used language in the world in international trade, diplomacy, mass entertainment, international telecommunications and scientific publications as well as publishing newspapers and other books.”

While the KJV is a great translation, English has changed significantly since it was translated making it less appropriate. Knowledge of the original languages allows one to see things that reading in English simply lacks. Its like listening to music in mono vs stereo.

 

[Bbrdrd]

While this may be true, in many cases it is not. And is also not the only determining factor, context and historical context also. Just be used.

one thing to remember is the English is limited, where the Greek is more precise, and example is the English word love is a translation for 4 different Greek words. We also have non english words which were bade by transliteration Greek words. For example. Christ is not a translation but a Transliteration of the Greek word Christos, which is a translation of the Hebrew messiah, Jesus comes from iosus Which is Greek or the hebrew yeshua (I think Joshua?) which is his real name, Baptize is another often misused word whcih is not native to English, it comes from Baptizo) So in these cases we need to find the Greek defenition to find the true defenition of the word.

in this case. The word “takes away” is not even a possible interpretation that I can find. Especially when it comes to being a vinedresser

Those are definitely considerations, and it gets at something I was trying to point out. The Greek has things like the middle voice that English doesn't which complicates translation beyond simply finding word replacements.

The verse in question both your translation and take away/cut off are appropriate to the Greek lexicon and grammar so what decides it is either context or theology. The context is difficult to determine since both cutting branches and trellising are practices of vine dressers, though I agree lifting is the more likely method in mind.

Since grammar and context don't rule out either option, we are left with theology driving translation. So it's a bit of a vicious loop because theology determines translation, but the point is decidedly theological.

I agree with your take, but it's not as clear cut as you seem to be trying to say it is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't understand your question, did Jesus ever say saving faith? As far as I know, Martin Luther say the faith that save never alone, not Jesus.

About john 4 and 6 I need to know what verse?

Really?

you spent how many posts showing how there is a difference between mere belief and true living faith, So I changed the meaning to show how it is not just mere belief and a faith that saves. And you are sitting here asking that question?

and you do not wish to go back to my origional post? Why?

here let me help you, I will do the leg work for you

Jesus said in John 3. Whoever believes has eternal life. I guess Jesus lies

He said in John 4. Ask and he will give rivers of living water flowing to eternal life. I guess he lied

He said in John 6. Whoever eats will never hunger never thirst never die. live forever have eternal life and will be raised on the last day

He also said whoever believes has eternal life whoever dies not believe does not have life by gods wrath

Jesus did not contradict himself a few chapters later like you insist. He did not promise conditional life he promised eternal. Based on faith. Not based on our power to abide. He did not promise that rivers of living water would stop flowing if we stop abiding he said it would continue forever. He did not promise that we could still die. Still hunger and thirst only have conditional Life based on whether we continue to abide. And only promise to raise us on the last day based on how we abide. He said all who eat will have

Sorry bro, your interpretation causes Jesus to contradict himself. You can post that verse a million times. It still must be interpreted in a way that makes scripture harmonize. In your interpretation scripture contradicts. Thus I can. It follow your view You view has people earning a grace gift which nullifies the gift

their I highlighted what Jesus said in those passages

again can you tell me what Jesus promised to those who have faith (true faith not mere belief which as you correctly showed. Never saved anyone)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Those are definitely considerations, and it gets at something I was trying to point out. The Greek has things like the middle voice that English doesn't which complicates translation beyond simply finding word replacements.

The verse in question both your translation and take away/cut off are appropriate to the Greek lexicon and grammar so what decides it is either context or theology. The context is difficult to determine since both cutting branches and trellising are practices of vine dressers, though I agree lifting is the more likely method in mind.

Since grammar and context don't rule out either option, we are left with theology driving translation. So it's a bit of a vicious loop because theology determines translation, but the point is decidedly theological.

I agree with your take, but it's not as clear cut as you seem to be trying to say it is.

context has to agree with the rest of scripture, if it cotradicts other aspects of scripture, which it does in his view) that that Possible Interpretation Must be rejected

 

[Bbrdrd]

context has to agree with the rest of scripture, if it cotradicts other aspects of scripture, which it does in his view) that that Possible Interpretation Must be rejected

that's what I mean by theology shaping translation. I agree the cut off translation doesn't fit the theology, but when it comes to questions of translation for the verse it must first be demonstrated to be in conflict.

I am in full agreement with both your translation and your reasoning, just pointing out its not quite as simple as we may like it to be.

 

[Jackson123]

Really?

you spent how many posts showing how there is a difference between mere belief and true living faith, So I changed the meaning to show how it is not just mere belief and a faith that saves. And you are sitting here asking that question?

and you do not wish to go back to my origional post? Why?

here let me help you, I will do the leg work for you



their I highlighted what Jesus said in those passages

again can you tell me what Jesus promised to those who have faith (true faith not mere belief which as you correctly showed. Never saved anyone)

My brother, let Bible interprate bible

Matt 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Endure to the end shall be save

No fruit, cut and burn
Rev 13
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right

hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Do you believe if you ever accept Jesus and take the mark of the beast still save?

1 cor 6:9-11

Killer liar adulterer not inherit the kingdom

You believe killer inherit kingdom no need repent?