The serious errors of Oneness/United Pentecostals
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♦ Jesus was only glorified when God raised him from the dead. So we know that Jesus was not yet glorified when he was here praying in John 17:5. Because of John 7:39
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
♦ Similarly, Paul speaks about something given to us before the creation of the world. However that reality only was manifested in our time and space at the appearing of Jesus our Savior.
2 Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
♦ Similarly, Jesus was the human Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8) and this human Lamb was foreknown before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20). Although he himself was not yet glorified, that glory was given by the Father to his human son before the foundation of the world. God the Father glorified Jesus when He raised him from the dead. Jesus is saying that his glorification was a done deal before creation because God the Father, in His love for his human son Jesus, had purposed it to occur.
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
♦ Similarly, Paul speaks about something given to us before the creation of the world. However that reality only was manifested in our time and space at the appearing of Jesus our Savior.
2 Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
♦ Similarly, Jesus was the human Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8) and this human Lamb was foreknown before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20). Although he himself was not yet glorified, that glory was given by the Father to his human son before the foundation of the world. God the Father glorified Jesus when He raised him from the dead. Jesus is saying that his glorification was a done deal before creation because God the Father, in His love for his human son Jesus, had purposed it to occur.
Too often the C word is thrown around amid the church that it alone may segregate the one body from the savior of all.
Two points from my end of it.
When a teaching in the church has a date of entry over a thousand years after Christ, it isn't of Christ. This is the case of the trinity. God never said he is three. God said he is one. God said there is no savior beside him. Jesus said he and the father are one, not three. The idea that there are three separate persons in the scripture is known as poly-theism, or, tritheism. And is not of God nor of Christ but is of Tertullian. AD 160 to 225AD. Tri-theism, Polytheism, is pagan. Christians are not pagan.
Secondly, Peter, who walked with Jesus, said, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Matthew 28:19.
That's all I have to add to this incendiary discussion. So many threads on the same topic. Why?
Two points from my end of it.
When a teaching in the church has a date of entry over a thousand years after Christ, it isn't of Christ. This is the case of the trinity. God never said he is three. God said he is one. God said there is no savior beside him. Jesus said he and the father are one, not three. The idea that there are three separate persons in the scripture is known as poly-theism, or, tritheism. And is not of God nor of Christ but is of Tertullian. AD 160 to 225AD. Tri-theism, Polytheism, is pagan. Christians are not pagan.
Secondly, Peter, who walked with Jesus, said, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Matthew 28:19.
That's all I have to add to this incendiary discussion. So many threads on the same topic. Why?
S
The only think I disagree with is your logic about why this point is unbiblical.
[4] Oneness Pentecostals hold that repentance is necessary before baptism to make the ordinance valid, and receipt of the Holy Spirit manifested by speaking in other tongues is necessary afterwards, to complete the work of baptism. [Note: This is a rejection of the Bible truth that not all Christians will speak in tongues, and also the meaning of the genuine gift of tongues]
I would say that the bible does not teach that one must speak in tongues to be saved. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues was not given for salvation but to give them power from on high to be witnesses to the uttermost parts of the earth. All those who received this spoke in tongues in the accounts given in acts. But all of them were already saved before they received it. Paul asking do all speak in tongues was in context of the manifestation of the gift of the spirit in the local church assembly and not all would operated in that gift but only two or three and with an interpreter. Their doctrine in 4 is wrong because you do not have to speak in tongues to be saved, it is not wrong because not all CAN speak in tongues if they ask for the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. This is available to all just as it was to all new converts in the book of acts as clearly seen by reading all of the accounts.
[4] Oneness Pentecostals hold that repentance is necessary before baptism to make the ordinance valid, and receipt of the Holy Spirit manifested by speaking in other tongues is necessary afterwards, to complete the work of baptism. [Note: This is a rejection of the Bible truth that not all Christians will speak in tongues, and also the meaning of the genuine gift of tongues]
I would say that the bible does not teach that one must speak in tongues to be saved. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues was not given for salvation but to give them power from on high to be witnesses to the uttermost parts of the earth. All those who received this spoke in tongues in the accounts given in acts. But all of them were already saved before they received it. Paul asking do all speak in tongues was in context of the manifestation of the gift of the spirit in the local church assembly and not all would operated in that gift but only two or three and with an interpreter. Their doctrine in 4 is wrong because you do not have to speak in tongues to be saved, it is not wrong because not all CAN speak in tongues if they ask for the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. This is available to all just as it was to all new converts in the book of acts as clearly seen by reading all of the accounts.
Regarding your question as to why it is because it is a very important subject to understand biblically.
And true he never said he was three but how often does not just plainly say something? If the holy spirit is not God but is merely the spirit of God then what is he exactly? he is called the holy spirit and unless I am mistaken only God is holy we are also warned of blaspheming the holy spirit so he is clearly held in very high esteem to God.
Another thing is that it isn't three differen t people it is three different aspects of one being body mind and soul we were made in his image having all three of these things. Not to mention how often the number three is used in scripture God clearly is a fan of the number as it represents perfection completeness and righteousness
And true he never said he was three but how often does not just plainly say something? If the holy spirit is not God but is merely the spirit of God then what is he exactly? he is called the holy spirit and unless I am mistaken only God is holy we are also warned of blaspheming the holy spirit so he is clearly held in very high esteem to God.
Another thing is that it isn't three differen t people it is three different aspects of one being body mind and soul we were made in his image having all three of these things. Not to mention how often the number three is used in scripture God clearly is a fan of the number as it represents perfection completeness and righteousness
Hmm so I did a little reading about the war.
Thanks to Wikipedia I think i have a somewhat unbiased view of the Oneness and Trinitarian conflict.
Oneness is saying God is One in three
Trinitarian is saying God is Three in one.
Scratches head....
Thinking of Lilliput and Blefuscu at war.
Meanwhile the bible just describes a Family and that is lacking how?
Thanks to Wikipedia I think i have a somewhat unbiased view of the Oneness and Trinitarian conflict.
Oneness is saying God is One in three
Trinitarian is saying God is Three in one.
Scratches head....
Thinking of Lilliput and Blefuscu at war.
Meanwhile the bible just describes a Family and that is lacking how?
Oneness Pentecostaslism is Occult, as also are the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Islam, H.W. Armstrong Church of God, Christian Science, Church of Scientology, The Way International, Christadelphians, and others just like them. They are all harlots of the Vatican; the Roman Catholic Church. They all preach another Jesus, another gospel, and have another spirit, true to 2Corinthians 11
I met a met a man, not that long ago, that is a Oneness Petecostal who seemed to enjoy masquerading himself as a Christian, among Believers, denying the Deity of The Lord Jesus Christ, as if it made a difference already with their denial of the Trinity! However, he was called out as being one of Satan's ministers preaching "another Jesus" per 2Corinthians 11, (highlighting verse 12) and would you like to know what his reaction was? He replied something to the effect that he is still a Christian even though he has a "different interpretation of who Jesus is".
I take 2Corinthians 11, 1John 2, 1John 4:1-5, and 2John 1:5-11, and 2Peter 2-3 most seriously, and will not be taken in by the Devil's deceivers, and allow for them to glory as being fellow Christians. The reason why they are "off" is because they have the spirit of antichrist, and are deceived and deceiving, as they feed on and teach doctrines of devils.
I met a met a man, not that long ago, that is a Oneness Petecostal who seemed to enjoy masquerading himself as a Christian, among Believers, denying the Deity of The Lord Jesus Christ, as if it made a difference already with their denial of the Trinity! However, he was called out as being one of Satan's ministers preaching "another Jesus" per 2Corinthians 11, (highlighting verse 12) and would you like to know what his reaction was? He replied something to the effect that he is still a Christian even though he has a "different interpretation of who Jesus is".
I take 2Corinthians 11, 1John 2, 1John 4:1-5, and 2John 1:5-11, and 2Peter 2-3 most seriously, and will not be taken in by the Devil's deceivers, and allow for them to glory as being fellow Christians. The reason why they are "off" is because they have the spirit of antichrist, and are deceived and deceiving, as they feed on and teach doctrines of devils.
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1John 5:7 is self explanatory in reply to 1John 5:10-11 and is why the Occult hates this verse and passage. Also, hence the precise way & manner *John 1:1-3 is written.
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1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
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1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
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*John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
*John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
*John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
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Hebrews 1:8-9 quoted from Psalm 102:25-27 PROPHECY FULFILLED!
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Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
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Hebrews 1:10-12 quoted from Psalm 45:6-7 PROPHECY FULFILLED!
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Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Hebrews 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Hebrews 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
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Psalms 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Psalms 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
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Psalms 102:24 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations.
Psalms 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Psalms 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
Psalms 102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.
1John 5:7 is self explanatory in reply to 1John 5:10-11 and is why the Occult hates this verse and passage. Also, hence the precise way & manner *John 1:1-3 is written.
____________________
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
-----------------------
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
____________________
*John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
*John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
*John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
____________________
Hebrews 1:8-9 quoted from Psalm 102:25-27 PROPHECY FULFILLED!
____________________
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
____________________
Hebrews 1:10-12 quoted from Psalm 45:6-7 PROPHECY FULFILLED!
____________________
Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Hebrews 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Hebrews 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
____________________
Psalms 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Psalms 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
____________________
Psalms 102:24 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations.
Psalms 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Psalms 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
Psalms 102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.
I'm not sure if you are asking me, but not everyone is of the family of God.
There are many false Christs; many false teachers, many false prophets, and so forth that preach another Jesus, another gospel, and have another spirit which is the spirit of error a.k.a. the spirit of iniquity a.k.a. the spirit of antichrist.
I suggest prayerful reading of Acts 20:28-31 Matthew 7:13-27, Matthew 24, 2Corinthians 6:14-18, 2Corinthians, Galatians 1:8-9, Philippians 3:17-19, 1John 2, 4 2John, 3John, 2Peter 2-3, Jude, Revelation 2-3 in the King James Bible. By prayerfully reading those passages, you can learn about the brute beasts a.k.a. antichrists a.k.a. false teachers a.k.a. false prophets a.k.a. enemies of the cross of Christ a.k.a. Satan's ministers and how to identify them, as so many masquerade in sheepskins to appear as being Christian ministers of righteousness, etc., and to know what The True and Living Lord Jesus Christ and His chosen Apostles have to say.
I'd suggest starting with Matthew 7:13-27 as The Lord Jesus Christ laid out severe consequences for those that opt not to heed what He has to say. There are so many that have opted not to do so, and that is why the world is so full of people going about to establish their own righteousness, including the following after false prophets and false teachers. Then there are those that are condoning to the deceitfulness because they hold to the doctrine of Balaam, and obviously are of the ones lying in wait to deceive.
There are many false Christs; many false teachers, many false prophets, and so forth that preach another Jesus, another gospel, and have another spirit which is the spirit of error a.k.a. the spirit of iniquity a.k.a. the spirit of antichrist.
I suggest prayerful reading of Acts 20:28-31 Matthew 7:13-27, Matthew 24, 2Corinthians 6:14-18, 2Corinthians, Galatians 1:8-9, Philippians 3:17-19, 1John 2, 4 2John, 3John, 2Peter 2-3, Jude, Revelation 2-3 in the King James Bible. By prayerfully reading those passages, you can learn about the brute beasts a.k.a. antichrists a.k.a. false teachers a.k.a. false prophets a.k.a. enemies of the cross of Christ a.k.a. Satan's ministers and how to identify them, as so many masquerade in sheepskins to appear as being Christian ministers of righteousness, etc., and to know what The True and Living Lord Jesus Christ and His chosen Apostles have to say.
I'd suggest starting with Matthew 7:13-27 as The Lord Jesus Christ laid out severe consequences for those that opt not to heed what He has to say. There are so many that have opted not to do so, and that is why the world is so full of people going about to establish their own righteousness, including the following after false prophets and false teachers. Then there are those that are condoning to the deceitfulness because they hold to the doctrine of Balaam, and obviously are of the ones lying in wait to deceive.
Yeah I know, they worship Him in vain, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men as if they are the words of God. Mat 15:9
They reject the power of godliness that could make them godly.. 2 Tim 3:5
They reject the very purpose for which the Gospel is preached, laid out in 1 Peter 2.
Yeah the Church has gotten very far away from being "The way" and a lot of demonic strongholds and stumbling blocks have been put into peoples minds by those unwilling to believe in God for the reality of the life in Christ Jesus.
It well past time to clean house and stop choosing one verse over another that seems opposed to our understanding.
We must be reconciled in our own bodies to Christ and the word of God. We need to change in order for the word all the word to be in unity without closing one eye here and there to what does not quite fit our way of seeing it.
They reject the power of godliness that could make them godly.. 2 Tim 3:5
They reject the very purpose for which the Gospel is preached, laid out in 1 Peter 2.
Yeah the Church has gotten very far away from being "The way" and a lot of demonic strongholds and stumbling blocks have been put into peoples minds by those unwilling to believe in God for the reality of the life in Christ Jesus.
It well past time to clean house and stop choosing one verse over another that seems opposed to our understanding.
We must be reconciled in our own bodies to Christ and the word of God. We need to change in order for the word all the word to be in unity without closing one eye here and there to what does not quite fit our way of seeing it.
Please clarify your position as to who you believe Jesus to be and/also who you believe Jesus not to be.
I firmly believe that Jesus Christ is Lord God Almighty in the flesh. Do you deny that Jesus Christ is Lord God Almighty in the flesh? Do you deny that Jesus Christ is God? What do you believe the verse means per Jesus' not yet being glorified? Please expound with your answers, using your own words. I don't mind if you would like to share a few quotes from your Oneness Pentecostal literature that you believe to support your beliefs. Another question that I have is, what is the preferred Bible translation for Oneness Pentecostals?
I firmly believe that Jesus Christ is Lord God Almighty in the flesh. Do you deny that Jesus Christ is Lord God Almighty in the flesh? Do you deny that Jesus Christ is God? What do you believe the verse means per Jesus' not yet being glorified? Please expound with your answers, using your own words. I don't mind if you would like to share a few quotes from your Oneness Pentecostal literature that you believe to support your beliefs. Another question that I have is, what is the preferred Bible translation for Oneness Pentecostals?
What do you mean by that?
Are you saying Jesus is his own Father?
Or that God was no longer in heaven when Jesus was on the earth?
Or that God died?
Or that God is a man?
it just gets messy when you get away from the words the bible uses to describe who Jesus is.
A Son of His God and Father.
Child Born of God in kind, if not form.
Was within His Father from eternity past and came fourth from his father.
Is attributed the deeds of His Father.
The exact representation of His Fathers nature.
Existed in/within the form of his father (Spirit, Light and Fire)
Was less then His Father, not equal to or greater then.
Did not cling to that glorious form but in obedience to His Father took on the humble form of the Spirit of a man, in the body of a man.
Lived the life of a perfect man in dependence on God.
Lived the life we are to live in every aspect as our example and became our connection to God
Made peace with God and man through His self sacrifice and became our mediator.
Was raised from the dead and became our hope and the realization of Gods promises.
Remaking us into a new kind, race, priesthood, nation.
Remaking us into what He was, a man in union with the spirit of God, AKA a child of God.
With Jesus the first born and head over the rest of us, His fathers house.
Here is an interesting thought, was Jesus born again?
If it first birth was that of water does the bible every speak of Him being born a second time in regards to God spirit?
Are you saying Jesus is his own Father?
Or that God was no longer in heaven when Jesus was on the earth?
Or that God died?
Or that God is a man?
it just gets messy when you get away from the words the bible uses to describe who Jesus is.
A Son of His God and Father.
Child Born of God in kind, if not form.
Was within His Father from eternity past and came fourth from his father.
Is attributed the deeds of His Father.
The exact representation of His Fathers nature.
Existed in/within the form of his father (Spirit, Light and Fire)
Was less then His Father, not equal to or greater then.
Did not cling to that glorious form but in obedience to His Father took on the humble form of the Spirit of a man, in the body of a man.
Lived the life of a perfect man in dependence on God.
Lived the life we are to live in every aspect as our example and became our connection to God
Made peace with God and man through His self sacrifice and became our mediator.
Was raised from the dead and became our hope and the realization of Gods promises.
Remaking us into a new kind, race, priesthood, nation.
Remaking us into what He was, a man in union with the spirit of God, AKA a child of God.
With Jesus the first born and head over the rest of us, His fathers house.
Here is an interesting thought, was Jesus born again?
If it first birth was that of water does the bible every speak of Him being born a second time in regards to God spirit?