Hi OneOfHis,
Quote: God made it very clear in many verses in proper context. If you are willing to have an honest discussion and not bounce around we can start with just a few verses including what you mentioned.
John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Response: --- That is correct, ‘the Word was with God from before the foundation of our world’ and it says in John 1:3, “All things were made through Him (the Word).” --- ‘And the Word was God’ in that He was commissioned to represent God on earth, to redeem mankind.
This Scripture is in Isaiah 48 where the Word has another title, which is ‘the LORD of hosts.’
Isaiah 48:12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.
13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
16 “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”
17 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the Lord your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you by the way you should go.”
--- So the Word was sent in charge of the redeeming of mankind on earth. The Word was a Spiritual being and could not be seen, so He chose another to represent Him on earth who was Christ, another Spiritual being who again could not be seen. --- But there had to be a link to the human body that had blood to shed, as no spiritual being has a flesh and blood body.
--- It tells us this in Hebrews 10:5 Therefore, when He (Christ) came into the world, He said “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come— in the volume of the book it is written of Me— to do Your will, O God.’” --- This is written in Isaiah 48:16.
So the physical body of Jesus was born on earth to the Virgin Mary. He had no human Father, but the DNA of Mary would be in Him, so Jesus could not have existed before Mary. --- However, Christ could come from heaven and ‘indwell’ the body of Jesus, and both live and express Himself, through the physical body of Jesus. --- The same as the Holy Spirit can indwell our physical bodies today.
--- It says again in Hebrews 2:9 “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.”
Neither the Word nor Christ could die, so Christ had to indwell the physical body of Jesus and go to death with Jesus, to conquer sin in the flesh. --- As it says in 1 Corinthians 15:21 “For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all (believers) shall be made alive.”
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
--- The Word was made known in the world through Jesus Christ, who represented Him in the flesh and blood body of Jesus.
_______These verses in John 1 are clear Jesus, always was. Before He was made flesh, He was.
--- There are no Scriptures to show that Jesus existed before He was born on earth, are there?
________
O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
This prayer was prayed by the Word through the person of Jesus because it mentions Jesus Christ in the third person. The Word is talking about Himself, having finished the work of redemption that God gave Him to do. John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”
--- In the next chapter, 18, Jesus was arrested, and the Word and God were glorified in the resurrection of Christ, when on the Day of Pentecost they were filled with the Holy Spirit which started the great revival, that also empowered the Apostles to go everywhere preaching.
Quote: God made it very clear in many verses in proper context. If you are willing to have an honest discussion and not bounce around we can start with just a few verses including what you mentioned.
John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Response: --- That is correct, ‘the Word was with God from before the foundation of our world’ and it says in John 1:3, “All things were made through Him (the Word).” --- ‘And the Word was God’ in that He was commissioned to represent God on earth, to redeem mankind.
This Scripture is in Isaiah 48 where the Word has another title, which is ‘the LORD of hosts.’
Isaiah 48:12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.
13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
16 “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”
17 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the Lord your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you by the way you should go.”
--- So the Word was sent in charge of the redeeming of mankind on earth. The Word was a Spiritual being and could not be seen, so He chose another to represent Him on earth who was Christ, another Spiritual being who again could not be seen. --- But there had to be a link to the human body that had blood to shed, as no spiritual being has a flesh and blood body.
--- It tells us this in Hebrews 10:5 Therefore, when He (Christ) came into the world, He said “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come— in the volume of the book it is written of Me— to do Your will, O God.’” --- This is written in Isaiah 48:16.
So the physical body of Jesus was born on earth to the Virgin Mary. He had no human Father, but the DNA of Mary would be in Him, so Jesus could not have existed before Mary. --- However, Christ could come from heaven and ‘indwell’ the body of Jesus, and both live and express Himself, through the physical body of Jesus. --- The same as the Holy Spirit can indwell our physical bodies today.
--- It says again in Hebrews 2:9 “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.”
Neither the Word nor Christ could die, so Christ had to indwell the physical body of Jesus and go to death with Jesus, to conquer sin in the flesh. --- As it says in 1 Corinthians 15:21 “For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all (believers) shall be made alive.”
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
--- The Word was made known in the world through Jesus Christ, who represented Him in the flesh and blood body of Jesus.
_______These verses in John 1 are clear Jesus, always was. Before He was made flesh, He was.
--- There are no Scriptures to show that Jesus existed before He was born on earth, are there?
________
O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
This prayer was prayed by the Word through the person of Jesus because it mentions Jesus Christ in the third person. The Word is talking about Himself, having finished the work of redemption that God gave Him to do. John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”
--- In the next chapter, 18, Jesus was arrested, and the Word and God were glorified in the resurrection of Christ, when on the Day of Pentecost they were filled with the Holy Spirit which started the great revival, that also empowered the Apostles to go everywhere preaching.
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