evolution?

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lexieydoodle

Guest
#1
My favorite priest once told me that faith and reason was a gift form God. I think that really shaped me as a perosn. Can someon explain to me, why so many chrisitains are agianst it? If amazingingly intellectual men, who are scientisits and chrisitans, like Kenneth Miller have no problem accepting both Jesus and evolution...whats the issue?
-thank you for your help!
 
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Ian8383

Guest
#2
I think it totally dis- credits the WORD of GOD. It takes away the whole foundation of our faith. GENESIS. If you take away the foundation of the word of GOD what are we left with. If GOD would lie about the creation of the world then our GOD is a liar, and if that were so what other lies are there in the bible? Is any of it true.. But i think most of all the theory of evolution isn,t to much of an argument any more. No one in history has ever witnessed evolution. They have witnessed random mutations that involve as loss of information but never a gain as an evolutionist needs to back up this theory and also the lack of "missing links" make the theory even worse. Next time you see a fossil that claims to be a missing link make sure you see a CT scan to back this fossil and also DNA tests done to see whether the body parts are original as the asian love to make these fossils for $$$ there is millions of dollars involved. The supposed evolution of man from a common ancestor has been disproved. Whale evolution disproved and dinosaur to bird evolution diproved these "were the top 3 arguments and the most powerful use to be APE to man as supposed from the closeness of DNA this was the best argument ever until they found out we share 70% of our DNA with SEA SPONGES....It all points to a common creator.....And also the fact of the YOUNG SUN... the sun is moving away from the earth at a constant rate, therefore it used to be closer. By the calculations of a steady moving rate the sun can be no older than 5million years as opposed to the 4.5 billion needed by evolutionist. Before you even take in to account evolution read arguments for and against......Then decide
 
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lexieydoodle

Guest
#4
thank you for your opinion Ian. i've never heard that thing about the sun, can you tell me where to read more about that?
I don't agree that evolution has been discredited though. Evolution itself is a fact, the theory of evolution on the other hand is up to debate although it is a very strong theory that has withstood 150 years of tests. Scientists have observed evolution, by putting microscopic cells under selective pressure and watching it evolve and we see disease evolve every year whihc is why we need to get a vaccine come new flu season.

I havn't read anything that says man eovlving from a common ancestor has been disproven, I would be really intrested to see what your referring to though!Because actually instead of disproving evolution mendelian genetics, which Darwin had no idea of knowing about, SUPPORTED evolution in great detail. I think that's such a cool thing. He predicted transitional species and we have been dfinging them like ticktolic, land to sea creature.

I really love eovlution but I would be really happy to read the information about the sun, and those where you saw the disproved of whales and dinosaurs to birds and what not beacuse I have read very contary evidence.

thanks agian!
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
#5
My favorite priest once told me that faith and reason was a gift form God. I think that really shaped me as a perosn. Can someon explain to me, why so many chrisitains are agianst it? If amazingingly intellectual men, who are scientisits and chrisitans, like Kenneth Miller have no problem accepting both Jesus and evolution...whats the issue?
-thank you for your help!
If you mean evolution through natural selection, etc. then that is just a tool.

the debate is the age of the Earth and if people think the Bible lies and is wrong. that is why it is such an issue.

I have problems when theories that tell people that humans are getting smarter and society is getting better and more complexity is a good thing.

God made humans perfect then we sinned and now we find more and more ways to sin, twist, pervert and misuse each other and the Earth. God's grace is the only thing keeping the world from killing each other through the use of nuclear warheads. It only takes one hothead with the money and resources to launch one and kill cities.

Look at the nuclear fallout in Japan from the nuclear power plants. Cancer and other disease caused by DNA mutations and some people like to say that mutations are a good thing and will eventually "evolve" animals into "higher" level beings.

I would be careful and read your Bible. God controls the world. Trust in His word. He created the world and He inspired every word written in the BIBLE they do NOT contradict each other. Interpertation of one or both is what causes the false dissonance.

Here are some website people from this site have sent me:

Does God Exist?

In Six Days - Index

Fighting for the Faith: Contra Darwin

Hope that helps :) Peace of the Lord be with you.
 
Apr 30, 2011
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#6
It's the fact that so many people of faith (not just Christians. There a high population of Creationist Muslims as well) are so close-minded and adamant about rejecting was is clearly well supported, documented, indisputable scientific FACT that makes modern day Christianity appear so harmful and archaic.
 
Apr 24, 2011
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#7
LexieDoodle, you can be a Christian and accept evolution no problem! Almost all of my Christian friends (very smart, loving people!) are very serious about following Christ, and they accept evolution entirely. People sometimes forget that being a Christian is all about the relationship you have with Jesus and not about whether or not someone accepts modern science or a literal account of Genesis. Incredibly intelligent and scientific Christians have realized this, so they both have a relationship with Jesus and believe what modern scientific knowledge and evidence tells them.

A favorite quote of mine from some brilliant Christian scientist, takes place after he gave a lecture on how all the evidence stacked up supporting the theory of evolution, he said something like "I believe firmly in God, the one who sent Jesus, and the one I have a relationship with today... But I don't believe in a deceptive God, I don't believe he would put this evidence here to lead us to an untrue conclusion, and that's why I believe in both God and evolution."

Believe what you wish on this matter Lexie, it doesn't make you any weaker or stronger of a Christian :)
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#8
I do not believe in Macro-evolution. I find it to be contradictory to the Genesis creation account, let alone, the Second Adam.
 
Apr 30, 2011
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#9
I do not believe in Macro-evolution. I find it to be contradictory to the Genesis creation account, let alone, the Second Adam.
....But what about the science?

The moon NOT emitting light is also contradictory to Genesis, but I doubt you think the moon is a light source.
 

Stuey

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2009
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#10
Evolution is only a theory... People walk around and take it as the truth thesedays, or use it as an excuse for not considering spiritual matters.

I read somewhere about Darwin seeing a certain type of flower, seeing that it was extremely difficult to pollinate and from this predicting that an insect would be discovered that could do this.

After it was discovered it was said that evolution was proven.

Let me ask you, if God did make the world, if he made a special type of flower that was extremely difficult to pollinate, would he not also make a butterfly or bee or specifically to pollinate it?
 
Apr 30, 2011
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#11
Evolution is only a theory... People walk around and take it as the truth thesedays, or use it as an excuse for not considering spiritual matters.

I read somewhere about Darwin seeing a certain type of flower, seeing that it was extremely difficult to pollinate and from this predicting that an insect would be discovered that could do this.

After it was discovered it was said that evolution was proven.

Let me ask you, if God did make the world, if he made a special type of flower that was extremely difficult to pollinate, would he not also make a butterfly or bee or specifically to pollinate it?

-head/desk-

1) Evolution is a Scientific Theory. That's DIFFERENT that just a colloquial theory. A Scientific Theory, to be a Theory, has to be WELL documented and proven. IT's a Theory the same way the Gravity, Atoms, and Plate Tectonics are "theories"

2) The Flower is not "proof" of evolution. It's simply an example of how we see co-evolution.

Proof of evolution is, well, abundant. Genetics, the fossil record, hell, evolution is the process by ALL modern anti-biotics, flu shots and agriculture work. Dog breeding functions on this principal.
 

Stuey

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2009
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#12
....But what about the science?

The moon NOT emitting light is also contradictory to Genesis, but I doubt you think the moon is a light source.
How so? I'm pretty sure that genesis only talks about a greater light to govern the day and a lesser one to govern the night.

- apologies, I wrote this last bit before I saw your last post, will look at it in the morning. :)

- edit 2 -

Also I should make the distinction between Macro and Micro evolution.

I do believe evolution exists - there is quite enough proof for that, however that does not mean that we come from monkeys. :)
 
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Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
13,140
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#13
My favorite priest once told me that faith and reason was a gift form God. I think that really shaped me as a perosn. Can someon explain to me, why so many chrisitains are agianst it? If amazingingly intellectual men, who are scientisits and chrisitans, like Kenneth Miller have no problem accepting both Jesus and evolution...whats the issue?
-thank you for your help!
That would be because the evolution theory is rediculous and against the word of God
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#14
....But what about the science?
I pay attention to it. I came to where I am based on science.

The moon NOT emitting light is also contradictory to Genesis, but I doubt you think the moon is a light source.
I addressed this in the post you made under the bible discussion category.
 

Stuey

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2009
892
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#15
-head/desk-

1) Evolution is a Scientific Theory. That's DIFFERENT that just a colloquial theory. A Scientific Theory, to be a Theory, has to be WELL documented and proven. IT's a Theory the same way the Gravity, Atoms, and Plate Tectonics are "theories"

2) The Flower is not "proof" of evolution. It's simply an example of how we see co-evolution.

Proof of evolution is, well, abundant. Genetics, the fossil record, hell, evolution is the process by ALL modern anti-biotics, flu shots and agriculture work. Dog breeding functions on this principal.
You are right it is a scientific theory - and I meant it in this sense, scientific theory, however, does not equal fact. On this it is interesting to note that most of the scientific assumptions of the past have been superseded or proven wrong. Even Newtonian physics was superseded by Einsteins theory of relativity.

Does it strike you as odd that they have not really found the 'missing links' between various groups? If we were to evolve you would think that we would have, we simply don't have this. If there has - please point me to the relevant scholarly journals and books, not some random website, we all know how trustworthy these are. - You claim that there is well documented and 'proven' cases of evolution, I presume this means things such as the missing links from monkeys to humans, as far as I am aware these are non-existent. And even if such a one or two was found, unless these are found in numbers, how could you claim with 100% certainty that we evolved from this missing link? There are people in Africa with odd numbers of toes, but that doesn't mean we used to have 6 toes and now have 10.

You have called Christians close minded earlier, and I will agree, some do not look and hide their heads under the sand. The thing about Christianity, however, is that we do not have to fear science in the slightest, God created the world and he doesn't lie to us through the bible.

Given that you consider yourself open minded, I also have a few questions for you to ponder.

From where did the universe come from?

What was before the big bang?

How can something simply come out of nowhere into existence? There was nothing... and then there was a big flash of light and then there was the universe?

My field of study at university is history. So I have a few questions for you regarding this.

How is it possible that the Old Testament prophesies so closely match up with what Jesus did for us at the cross? Have a read through Zechariah - These books were written well before Jesus' day, how is it that they so accurately depict what happened? I'd recommend reading through with an older christian, a pastor even, the Old Testament can be quite difficult to understand at times.

How is it possible that such a small group of believers spread their message so far in so short a time if the bible is not true?

Why would the 12 Apostles so readily give up their life for god if they did not see Jesus die, rise from the dead and ascend to heaven in front of their very eyes? 11 of the 12 apostles were martyred. With the last, John, being exiled. Would all 12 apostles so readily give up their life for one of hardship and suffering for one that believed was false?

1 Corinthians, written by Paul, claims,"For what I received I passed onto you as of first importance. That Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that he appeared to more than five hundred of the brotehrs at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep." - 1 Cor 15:3-7

Paul's letter claims that Jesus appeared to over 500 believers. - Surely if this was not true it could be easily disproved at the time.

Anywho, I have more stuff that is worth thinking about, I hope I haven't came across to strongly, but I'll leave you with this for the moment. :)

God bless,

Stuey
 
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lexieydoodle

Guest
#16
"Does it strike you as odd that they have not really found the 'missing links' between various groups? If we were to evolve you would think that we would have, we simply don't have this. If there has - please point me to the relevant scholarly journals and books, not some random website, we all know how trustworthy these are. - You claim that there is well documented and 'proven' cases of evolution, I presume this means things such as the missing links from monkeys to humans, as far as I am aware these are non-existent. And even if such a one or two was found, unless these are found in numbers, how could you claim with 100% certainty that we evolved from this missing link? There are people in Africa with odd numbers of toes, but that doesn't mean we used to have 6 toes and now have 10. "

I just wanted to clear this up. Just as I'm sure as a hisotry person you need to enlighten people who misinterpret facts; as someone who is studying evolution I feel the compulsive (and often anooying) need to clear up evolution as being misreresented :)

1.) evolutionary scintists do NOT think we came form monkeys. Evolution is not a chain as is poularized sometimes but is a web. We are great apes and we evolved (acoording to evolution) from something that was niether monkey nor ape but a transitional species.

2.) what lol. I don't get the evolutionary chain of logic there with the Africa thing. Could you please elobarate?

3.) oh and they have found transitional species!!!! (as a dork I get excited about things like this:)
Neil H. Shubin found Tiktaalik, for example. Which shows the transition form sea to land creatures its a really cool article defnitely read it!

4.) "Does God Exist?

In Six Days - Index

Fighting for the Faith: Contra Darwin"

-->thank you so much, I am going to read this stuff right after finals as my treat :)
__________________
"my religon is very simple, my religon is kindness"
 

Stuey

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2009
892
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#17
"Does it strike you as odd that they have not really found the 'missing links' between various groups? If we were to evolve you would think that we would have, we simply don't have this. If there has - please point me to the relevant scholarly journals and books, not some random website, we all know how trustworthy these are. - You claim that there is well documented and 'proven' cases of evolution, I presume this means things such as the missing links from monkeys to humans, as far as I am aware these are non-existent. And even if such a one or two was found, unless these are found in numbers, how could you claim with 100% certainty that we evolved from this missing link? There are people in Africa with odd numbers of toes, but that doesn't mean we used to have 6 toes and now have 10. "

I just wanted to clear this up. Just as I'm sure as a hisotry person you need to enlighten people who misinterpret facts; as someone who is studying evolution I feel the compulsive (and often anooying) need to clear up evolution as being misreresented :)

1.) evolutionary scintists do NOT think we came form monkeys. Evolution is not a chain as is poularized sometimes but is a web. We are great apes and we evolved (acoording to evolution) from something that was niether monkey nor ape but a transitional species.

Apologies - I meant what I said in this sense - evolution exists but it doesn't mean that we came from this transitional ape like species. :)

2.) what lol. I don't get the evolutionary chain of logic there with the Africa thing. Could you please elobarate?

Sure, it was a bit of a bad parable. I guess what I was attempting to say that - if for example, you find a fossil with three toes, a fossil with five toes and a species that now exists with 7 toes - it doesn't necessarily mean that this one with 7 toes evolved from the one with five, or that the one with five evolved from one with three. Sure it is possible, but it doesn't necessarily mean that. Anywho that is a terrible example but it might explain what I am saying somewhat.

3.) oh and they have found transitional species!!!! (as a dork I get excited about things like this:)
Neil H. Shubin found Tiktaalik, for example. Which shows the transition form sea to land creatures its a really cool article defnitely read it!

I guess I would answer this with what I said above - both species may have existed, yet one may now be extinct. Probably want to read what I put below as well.


4.) "Does God Exist?

In Six Days - Index

Fighting for the Faith: Contra Darwin"

-->thank you so much, I am going to read this stuff right after finals as my treat :)

I just thought I'd add here that Christian's often think they know how to interpret the bible correctly when we don't. (I am not saying we cannot determine anything from the bible, far from it!) What I am saying is that if evidence comes up which completely disproves what we believe the bible is saying from our interpretation - then perhaps we have misinterpreted the bible. The church used to believe in a flat earth after all and I can see (although personally I am not particularly fond of this view) an interpretation of genesis that would allow for evolution. It is also interesting to read the account of Noah. God's ways and how he made the universe and sustains it through his breath is incredibly complex, we don't know how and are only scratching the surface of it. :)

As Solomon writes (Think it's Solomon) - It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.

God bless.

__________________
"my religon is very simple, my religon is kindness"
Apparently I need 10 characters here...
 
Apr 30, 2011
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#18
How so? I'm pretty sure that genesis only talks about a greater light to govern the day and a lesser one to govern the night.

- apologies, I wrote this last bit before I saw your last post, will look at it in the morning. :)

- edit 2 -

Also I should make the distinction between Macro and Micro evolution.

I do believe evolution exists - there is quite enough proof for that, however that does not mean that we come from monkeys. :)
Yes, God created 2 lights. Only the moon is not a light. At all.


-sigh-
To clarify: Modern humans have not descended from MODERN monkeys. Both Humans AND OTHER primates both decided from a common ancestor. Like cousins sharing a grandparent, so to speak.

And yes, there is overwhelming evidence for that.
 

Stuey

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2009
892
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#19
Sorry I forgot to add that I didn't address number 4 very well, I'll have a look at them another time.
 

Stuey

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2009
892
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#20
Yes, God created 2 lights. Only the moon is not a light. At all.


-sigh-
To clarify: Modern humans have not descended from MODERN monkeys. Both Humans AND OTHER primates both decided from a common ancestor. Like cousins sharing a grandparent, so to speak.

And yes, there is overwhelming evidence for that.
Can you please point me to the credible journals and/or books for this? Also have you thought about those questions I posed you in my first post?

- edit -

Forgot to address your point about the two lights. Um, I don't really see this as contradictory at all, the moon does give us light, it does not give it in the same way as the Sun does mind you.

Also here is Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.



I find it interesting that God created the heavens and earth formless, empty and dark - and that it doesn't say that god created the Sun and made it light the world but simply says 'let there be light'. Quite interesting :)





An interesting thing about Gensesis

Cheers,

Stuey
 
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