Jesus was not only GOD but the GOD-MAN.
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Your posting is not quite clear to me, so forgive me if my response misses the mark.
I perceive that you, like me, and I dare say, all men, cannot fathom the Person of Christ. Our human intellect is a wonderful thing, but it has its limits. In your above posting you have shown one side of a two sided coin. Jesus is the name of a MAN, and for the accomplishment of God's plan with the earth, He needed a MAN. Besides the Book of John, our Lord Jesus never refers to Himself as "Son of God". Others do, but He called Himself "Son of MAN". A MAN was needed for God's purpose in Genesis 1:26-28, and God has never wavered from this purpose. Jesus is 100% MAN. In Genesis 1:11-12 God sets forth an immutable Law. It is that everything that has seed within itself will bring forth the same KIND. Jesus was "seed of the Woman", making Him 100% MAN.
But by the same immutable principle, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and this leaves no option but to admit His DEITY. And thus He is called in many scriptures. He is Emmanuel - God with us. He is God in John 1:1. He is equal to God (Phil.2:6). In Him dwells the fullness of the Godhead (Col.2:9). He is named God, by God in Hebrews 1:8. And His deity is irrevocably established in that it was HE who had power to lay down His life AND to take it up again (Jn.10:18).
It behooves us to study what God has revealed, rejoice in that which we can comprehend, and bow in humility when we reach the limit of our (fallen) intellect. It is one of the most subtle proofs of our God being so much superior to us that when He reveals His attributes, we cannot comprehend properly. Man has no chance to comprehend eternity. Nor can he comprehend how the universe was created out of nothing. How much more is puny man shown his limits by the attributes of Jesus Christ.
The debate topic is jesus man/god duality. My two cents are- God was jesus, jesus was not God- You trust God, trust in me also; Through Christ God made the world...
Well said, and do you believe we are all of christ? That God planned for a planet full of sons and Christs death was not of Gods plan, but a way to stop the world from ending 2000 years ago?
I don't think we can equate him with the old prophets. They came from the lord, and they did the lords bidding- The law and the prophets were preached up to the arrival of the son of man. Again, well said!
Thanks for explaining.
Logically, "God was Jesus, Jesus was not God" doesn't make sense. Biblically, it doesn't make sense either. I would encourage you to read through the thread entitled, "Christ is God".
I just picked one. Since truth does not require belief, I cannot quantify belief. I extrapolate this arguement on the premise of the bible verses i referenced and others. I dont expect to enlighten anyone, i have questions, whether christ is God is not one of them; however, would like to hear your belief and the words of christ you base them on.
It is a concern of mine that the prophets and the anointed of the lord were doing the work of the lord and not the work of God. -The only one who has been to heaven is the one who came down from heaven, Ye are the children of the devil and you seek to do his work. - My question is, then, how can you reconcile the actions of the spirit of the lord with the actions and intentions of christ and accept the same spiritual workings at the heart of both the lord of the israelites and father of christ? esp. in the context of the law, whereby one says, to fulfill the law, an adulterous woman must be stoned to death, the other saying, i DID fulfill the law.
My belief is that Jesus Christ is God. There is a large list of biblical verses to support that belief, which have been ably presented by posthuman in the "Christ is God" thread.
Aren’t they the same,GOD IS JESUS and JESUS IS the WORD OF GOD In Flesh that men would recognize as the SON of GOD which would be the way man would relate to a father that has a son.
Foreign language is not my thing... -Let us go down and confuse their speech. BUT what i have heard from the polyglots is this: The illusory phrase Word of God is logos, which means logic, Word of God/Son of God- Christ is the foundation given us morality/logic/fellowship. Christ was the foundation given us at the begining * which over time and thru divisiveness/trespass degraded till God asked/told jesus to lay down his life so the morality/logic/fellowship foundation could again be given to men.(ye must be born again) christ was still christ and you are still you and through christ you live and in HIM we live and have our being (you) Christ lives in God and we live in christ and we all live in God. Divisive and deliberately deceiving, the hope is we will deny christ (morality/logic/fellowship) (a mans immortal soul) and cause ourselves the day when we will again require a flesh and blood sacrifice to reboot our corrupt christ mind. Amen. Come, Lord Jesus., The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen
* This is a seperate arguement which is beyond the scope of our discussion, but is PARAMOUNT to an understanding of living in the world. Father return to me the glory we had before the world began. Your father is the devil and he was a liar from the begining. If the sacrifice of christ was divine intervention and if christ was from God, aaaand if Adam was the son of God, what Adam and Eve did was divinely inspired as well. Now the accusation of sin enters the world. Do you sin when you stub your toe? Do you sin when you get sick? If A&E had the Word in the begining - Adam was the son of God---In the begining was the word and word was with God and the word was God---Then eating from the tree was not part of their LOGOS. I.E. They did not offend God or their own BIOS, they were accused of doing wrong in a fashion that could not be quantified- B/c you have done this, your work will become a burden to you, labor hard and painful and your child births will become more painful. So if Christ died so others may live, then perhaps what A&E did was a narrative of compassion as well. But are we not ALL of God?
Some will say that the same GOD that wrote the old testament IS the same GOD that wrote the New testament and since GOD does not change,aren't we suppose to keep the Old Covenant and the New covenant also but then somebody might ask,why did GOD say stone someone for not keeping the law and then JESUS say love your neighbor.
Paul wrote that the law Is spiritual but he Is carnal.
Those that were not understanding the Spirit compared to the flesh Would see GOD and JESUS as separate and not the same.One that they could recognize with their carnal senses,see hear,smell,taste or feel rather than recognize the spiritual which would be JESUS's works that result from the SPIRIT of GOD.
That is correct. One cannot have a conversion experience unless that one has been regenerated. Regeneration=New Birth. As I pointed out, this is the sole work of God on the believer.
Let me say it like this... Since man is "dead in trespasses and sins" (spiritually speaking), due to the fall of Adam, who was the legal head of all mankind, we all fell in him.
Let's look at a simple example of what this means to all of us. If you are I are DEAD in trespasses and sins, then we need to be made alive, spiritually, in order to be saved. Since you had fallen overboard from the ship, spiritually speaking and are in need of salvation, someone (Christ), throws you a life line, it would do you NO good because you are DEAD. DEAD persons cannot grab the life line nor can someone who is DEAD comprehend what it is that was thrown. On the other hand, if you had been made alive, spiritually speaking, previous to the life line being thrown, you would know clearly that you were in trouble and you would grab hold and hang on tight, for your eternal life with your Savior depends on it. The nice thing is, He makes sure you can grab it and makes sure you will never let go.
I hope that helps.
Let me try this then- If christ is God then God is man, part of the creation- but god made everything, then he made man.
but- If God was christ and we are of christ then we are part of what was made like everything else and God is distinct from the creation.
-and as soon as he came up from the water of Johns baptism, the holy spirit descended upon him and when he had breathed his last, he gave up the spirit.
When you say "conversion"Is that the same as renewing the mind to the (regenerated) New Creation that the reborn person has become?
I know a man in christ fourteen years ago who was caught up to the third heaven, whether it was in the body or not I DONT KNOW.
Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the lord.
On that day you will realize that i am in my father and you are in me and i am in you.
I also have questions about the new testament, my short answer is; if the devil wrote the bible, God would find a way to make it useful- let nothing be wasted.. Anyway, I wrote these verses to show a contrast b/t christ and pauls' teachings. I am thankful for pauls' story and surely, if you wanted to know what it was like to interface with the purity of christ, while wearing dirty rags, there it is. He is awash with thankfulness. The contrast i provide is a drop in the bucket, before you get far, the holy spirit is causing people to fall dead at the apostles feet over money and there are certain men you shouldn't associate with and certain things you shouldn't do, and you have to purify your church of those who do not keep to the teachings (become misled), all counter to christs teachings. I have accepted the idea the bible ending may not be what God has in mind but it is maybe too hard for me to imagine someone/thing working against HIM... Especially considering what a world of christ men might be like.I.E.- who would not benefit from such a thing? But there it is in print. How could we ALL be of God and still face opposition beyond our own behavior? What is it about this wise servant (who longs to share the kingdom with foolish sons, the servant who would not know what coveting was, were it not for the law, to whom these laws were given to, b/c of trespasses), this thing we must subdue and love and keep the furnace lit for, that causes it to fight so hard against the very God it demands we render fealty to? Very tactfully somewhere it is written- When you come to the house of God, come forth rather to listen, than to offer the sacrifice of of those who do not know they do wrong.
I will attempt to give you an answer and keep it as simple as possible.
When Adam fell in the garden of Eden and lost his original uprightness, we all fell in him. Adam was mankind's legal head. Thus, everyone who comes into the world is spiritually DEAD in trespasses and sins. ( Eph 2:1b) .... who were dead in trespasses and sins, and possess the "sin nature". Through the seed of man, is passed this "sin nature", and therefore no human on planet Earth are without sin.
In order for Jesus to be born, as a man, He could NOT be born of the "seed" of a man, otherwise He would have inherited the "sin nature". Thus, He had NO human father. God took the virgin Mary to be the one to bring Jesus into the world, as an infant child, who would know NO sin.
In order to do that, a true miracle must take place. A child conceived without a human father's seed.
In Mat 1:18 We see that the seed came from the Holy Spirit: "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit." This conception took place in a sanctified womb, so that the "sin nature" of Mary would not touch the conceived Jesus. AT this same time the Hypostatic Union had taken place. The great mystery, by which the Second Person of the God-Head, the Eternal Son of God, who is Spirit, joined with the now Holy child in Mary's womb. Thus, Jesus Christ became the God-Man. Praise and Honor and Glory be to HIM forever.
(Heb 2:7) Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; Thou crownedst him with glory and honor, And didst set him over the works of thy hands:
I hope this helps. May we work to glorify God in all that we do.