Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot
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Dying for the sins of the world does not mean that all of mankind is given to Jesus.
Secondly, you are taking this out of context of the entire section.... and by the way... "chosen" does not always mean the selected to salvation predetermined by God by irresistible grace and denied to others.
John 6:72, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
Secondly, you are taking this out of context of the entire section.... and by the way... "chosen" does not always mean the selected to salvation predetermined by God by irresistible grace and denied to others.
John 6:72, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
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Thank you for that statement Duskey, I respect you too. Seems like I get very little respect from most on this forum, but Christ has assured me that that would be the way it goes, as it did with him when he was preaching it. I have a broader scope of how many will be in heaven than probably anyone on this forum, and surely believe that you are probably one of them. I think the doctrine that I have been shown through the revelation of the Holy Spirit within me is the most comforting and peace giving doctrines there is because I believe it to be the doctrine that Jesus taught. I struggled with by beliefs until I was 62 years old, and that was 23 years ago. My prayer to God is that he would reveal his doctrine to many more people than he does, but that just does not seem, in my feeble understanding, to be his will. I wish you well in your studies of the scriptures, and who knows, maybe God will open up more insights to you.
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but if we don't really know the truth ourselves completely we should be careful not to overdo our 'teachings' lest we fall under condemnation for teaching any falsehoods.
1 Corinthians 13:12
“For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”
King James Version (KJV)
James 1:19
Good News Translation
Remember this, my dear friends! Everyone must be quick to listen, but s l o w to speak and s l o w to become angry.
James 3 ►
Christian Standard Bible Par ▾
Controlling the Tongue
3 Not many should become teachers, my brothers†, because you know that we will receive a stricter judgment.† 2 For we all stumble in many ways.†
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Scripture will never convince you, I know this full well, you are immersed in a dogma that denies context, all you can see is affirmation of what you already believe.
The scripture clearly and irrefutably denies limited atonement and irresistible grace.
I have studied the cult of this dogma for a long time, I know how you draw people into your territory but will not respond to what refutes your belief
If "many" means many then... does "all" mean all?
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Romans 5
The scripture clearly and irrefutably denies limited atonement and irresistible grace.
I have studied the cult of this dogma for a long time, I know how you draw people into your territory but will not respond to what refutes your belief
If "many" means many then... does "all" mean all?
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Romans 5
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Who Christ died for are only those that God gave him. You are taking the word "world" out of context in John 3:16, which is the world of believers, not all mankind, if harmonized with the other scriptures.
You claim that the scriptures say that God loves all of mankind, but the scriptures say that whom God loves, he chastens. There are some that he does not chasten according to the harmonizing scriptures; Ps 73:5, Speaking of the wicked; they are not in trouble like other men, neither are they "plagued" (divinely punished) like other men. Rom 9:11 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God, according to election might stand, not of works, but of him who calleth. verse 13, as it is written, Jacob have I loved, and Esau have I hated. 1 John 2:15, Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world, lf any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
John 14:17, Even the Spirit of truth, in whom the world cannot receive.
You claim that the scriptures say that God loves all of mankind, but the scriptures say that whom God loves, he chastens. There are some that he does not chasten according to the harmonizing scriptures; Ps 73:5, Speaking of the wicked; they are not in trouble like other men, neither are they "plagued" (divinely punished) like other men. Rom 9:11 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God, according to election might stand, not of works, but of him who calleth. verse 13, as it is written, Jacob have I loved, and Esau have I hated. 1 John 2:15, Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world, lf any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
John 14:17, Even the Spirit of truth, in whom the world cannot receive.
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16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
While "world" should be read in context, there is nothing in the verse that would require one to read it as "World of the Elect" unless one has pre-suppositions that need to be fitted into the verse.
In context it means exactly that the "world"
The comparison is made to the Israelite being told to look at the bronze snake. (John 3: 14-16)
The invitation went to all and those that looked lived.
The "world" >>>> all sinners are given the invitation... by analogy.
So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived. (Numbers 21)
Yeah we have all been bitten by sin
No limited atonement here.
While "world" should be read in context, there is nothing in the verse that would require one to read it as "World of the Elect" unless one has pre-suppositions that need to be fitted into the verse.
In context it means exactly that the "world"
The comparison is made to the Israelite being told to look at the bronze snake. (John 3: 14-16)
The invitation went to all and those that looked lived.
The "world" >>>> all sinners are given the invitation... by analogy.
So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived. (Numbers 21)
Yeah we have all been bitten by sin
No limited atonement here.
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Amen....Jim Jones got 909 people at "Jonestown" to drink cyanide laced kool aid under the banner of "Revolutionary Suicide" and how many people worship Rev. Moon......cults appeal to people because they tell them and reinforce some superiority complex....Look at the SS and Waffen SS under Hitler and Himler......that is what makes cults so dangerous....they appeal to the flesh, brain wash, coddle, constantly skew history or facts and lead every one of their converts to their own demise in the end..........and the inference is clear when Calvinism is viewed under the microscope and based upon all evidences.....!! A modern version of Phariseeism is all that it is!
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Eg, I, Dusky, 11th and MANY others have posted enough scriptural truths to prove your belief to be erroneus....enough proofs that three books could be written and yet you blindly deny the truth.....and that is the problem with cults like JW's, Mormons, Calvinists etc.......they refuse to acknowledge the truth because it takes you off of your horse of "superiority complex" and equates you with the rest of us sinners saved by GRACE!
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Not so much a salvation issue more how can we hear God not seen. The hearing of His faith working in. He does all the work giving us ears to understand him not seen. . the beginning of the good work of salvation in us. Salvation working in us gives us his confidence as a living hope that he will continue to work with us all the way to the end.
Philipians 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
When we sin its not . . I have to be born-again for the umpteenth time. He either does all the work in us or none .
Philipians 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
When we sin its not . . I have to be born-again for the umpteenth time. He either does all the work in us or none .
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In keeping Romans chapter five in context the "many" and "all" are interchangeable with the "we" "our" "us" Verse 11, And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. "Many". that has received the atonement. "all men" that have received the atonement.
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