Does God contradict his own commandments?
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let's go back to the beginning then -- why put the tree of the knowledge of good from evil in the garden, giving Adam the ability to & freedom to choose to do evil?
does God tempt anyone? nope.
was God negligent? nope.
what is this for? who sees it? what does it demonstrate? what is its testimony?
does God tempt anyone? nope.
was God negligent? nope.
what is this for? who sees it? what does it demonstrate? what is its testimony?
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God's people were subject to paganism all around, with spiritual unseen forces that were influencing their allegiance to God and his commandments. If even a small child was spared, the influence of pagan gods would be restarted. The animals, possessions ,etc. that were part of the pagan culture, would be required also to be completely done away with so as to have no influence whatsoever. Regarding the commandment "Thou shat not kill" it's context is in the sense of murder, which is based in a personal hatred of another. There are reasons for everything, and spiritual understanding is not always at the forefront, in the text itself, but must be gleaned or seen as a whole plan, and that of God, who sees the end of everything according to his purposes. God does not do evil things, but allows certain situations to take place to obtain a higher and righteous outcome.
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it's the same question, why did God have everyone in the whole congregation stone to death the man who was willfully gathering wood on the sabbath? and why did God Himself destroy Sodom, instead of sending Abraham? Abraham & his servants had overtaken and defeated the armies that thoroughly conquered Sodom & Gomorrah -- couldn't he have just as well overpowered those cities himself?
and it's not as though He had no direct hand in the Israelites entering Canaan and driving out the people. when they were faithful, He Himself fought for them - crossing the Jordan, tearing down Jericho, raining meteors on armies, supernaturally causing their enemies to be filled with terror and confusion & turn on themselves..
don't come away from this with idea that God couldn't wipe them out Himself, or that He didn't actually want Israel to do this. He had a reason for what He did, sending them, and He certainly did give them these instructions. He Himself overthrew Egypt when He brought them out of it, and all this, all these facts of their history recorded in the scripture, are a testimony to us, teaching about Christ. and what does He do in our own lives? in some cases He takes the desire to sin out of our hearts altogether - as He Himself destroyed Sodom. in other cases He we still have temptation from our own desires, and He expects us to oppose them, ourselves - as He sent Israel to fight Ai rather than simply destroying it with fire from heaven.
and it's not as though He had no direct hand in the Israelites entering Canaan and driving out the people. when they were faithful, He Himself fought for them - crossing the Jordan, tearing down Jericho, raining meteors on armies, supernaturally causing their enemies to be filled with terror and confusion & turn on themselves..
don't come away from this with idea that God couldn't wipe them out Himself, or that He didn't actually want Israel to do this. He had a reason for what He did, sending them, and He certainly did give them these instructions. He Himself overthrew Egypt when He brought them out of it, and all this, all these facts of their history recorded in the scripture, are a testimony to us, teaching about Christ. and what does He do in our own lives? in some cases He takes the desire to sin out of our hearts altogether - as He Himself destroyed Sodom. in other cases He we still have temptation from our own desires, and He expects us to oppose them, ourselves - as He sent Israel to fight Ai rather than simply destroying it with fire from heaven.
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My faith acknowledges that God is good. So I look for how this command of God that seems to be an evil but is not. I believe this about the command to wipe out the populations occupying the promised land.
God had delivered the Hebrews from slavery. By enforcing the ban the Hebrews would have avoided being responsible for an enemy population in their midst. A population that would by necessity be enslaved and eventually become a necessary part of the economy. Not to mention a population of idolaters that would be a constant temptation to them. Since God was setting up the foundation of our own civilization He was trying to make slavery a thing that happened in Egypt four thousand years ago. That the moral evil of human's as property would be an evil deeply engrained enough in our conscience that it wasn't going to be the problem it has become.
God had delivered the Hebrews from slavery. By enforcing the ban the Hebrews would have avoided being responsible for an enemy population in their midst. A population that would by necessity be enslaved and eventually become a necessary part of the economy. Not to mention a population of idolaters that would be a constant temptation to them. Since God was setting up the foundation of our own civilization He was trying to make slavery a thing that happened in Egypt four thousand years ago. That the moral evil of human's as property would be an evil deeply engrained enough in our conscience that it wasn't going to be the problem it has become.
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I think we all go through these kinds of questions and searches within our own hearts/thoughts.
Sometimes the things God does or says rubs our "flesh" the wrong way.
One of the things I like about our God YHVH is that he doesn't forbid our searching questions.
There are lots of questions and even outright accusations against God from the prophets.
Jeremiah was in a bad place when he wrote the book of Lamentations
. Job accused God of striking him him unfairly. I expect God could have left Job as nothing but a grease spot on the ground if he wanted to. But he allowed the dialogue to continue. I realised some time ago that there is no point I can raise with God that he hasn't heard before.
Sometimes the things God does or says rubs our "flesh" the wrong way.
One of the things I like about our God YHVH is that he doesn't forbid our searching questions.
There are lots of questions and even outright accusations against God from the prophets.
Jeremiah was in a bad place when he wrote the book of Lamentations
. Job accused God of striking him him unfairly. I expect God could have left Job as nothing but a grease spot on the ground if he wanted to. But he allowed the dialogue to continue. I realised some time ago that there is no point I can raise with God that he hasn't heard before.-
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Even if our God was a cruel God who didn't want to protect His creation, we would have to accept that for we didn't create ourselves nor do we control our world. There are dangerous evil forces in our world.
In order to create an up there has to be a down. In order to create good, there has to be an evil, or how would we know what is up or what is evil?
God gave us a way to manage living in this world in the best way possible, and God gave a way out for us when we fail, and that way is through blood God gave on the altar that is Christ.
When we have faith in all God gives us, it is just listening to the commands of the Lord. They are not for the well being of the Lord, they are for our well being. Evil is constantly working for our destruction and they use scripture to do their work. The formula is to tell us that if this is so, then we can be sure that this (anything they add) is also so. You can see the formula they use as you study the way Christ was tempted in the wilderness.
Judging God's commands with our mortal mind instead of understanding the good in them is a dead end street. Our faith in God is based on hard facts, and we can thank and praise our God for that.
In order to create an up there has to be a down. In order to create good, there has to be an evil, or how would we know what is up or what is evil?
God gave us a way to manage living in this world in the best way possible, and God gave a way out for us when we fail, and that way is through blood God gave on the altar that is Christ.
When we have faith in all God gives us, it is just listening to the commands of the Lord. They are not for the well being of the Lord, they are for our well being. Evil is constantly working for our destruction and they use scripture to do their work. The formula is to tell us that if this is so, then we can be sure that this (anything they add) is also so. You can see the formula they use as you study the way Christ was tempted in the wilderness.
Judging God's commands with our mortal mind instead of understanding the good in them is a dead end street. Our faith in God is based on hard facts, and we can thank and praise our God for that.
Exactly! I don't question God's perfect rights and abilities, I just would like to know why we can find several seemingly contradictions in the scriptures. I take the scriptures faithfully as God's word. I simply use the God given brain and intelligent abilities, (whatever they be), to wonder "why." I only come here to present my wonder-'ings' to other people of faith to "reason together with them." "Seek and ye shall find."
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Friend, you have only peaked your head into the rabbit hole, turn back, turn back and stick your head in the sand, like everybody is. wait for the lord, wait for the lord. With that said, remember you are in a forum for debates.
I will begin this lamentation with an aspirin and an invocation- Romans 1 18. The wrath of god is being revealed against the godless. What you are suggesting is this- Righteousness is doing what God says not to do, when God tells you to do it. Genesis 15 6. Abraham believed the lord, crediting him with righteousness. The problem comes when someone provokes your enemy to do what God tells you not to do- to you, when God tells him to do it... Then, if you did not understand why, if you could not justify your enemy, the hope is, you will blame God.
Down we go, its getting dark. People are jailed for breaking laws not found in the commandments or within your God given logic system, where do not kill REALLY lives. People will prosecute you for doing things they do themselves, not always to help you, but to glorify themselves, and others will stand by and hold their clothes while they do it. If you feel out of the loop, people will tell you to do things or imply they know things you don't, just to watch you make a fool of yourself or much much worse.
Now, we are in utter darkness, their is no light to find the exit, we are hungry, we become enraged, we have cursed God and here in a hole in the ground we find dispair, darkness and gloom. Here, we have been betrayed, here we will be destroyed. The contradiction is born of a blasphemy, a deception- We have attributed to the holy spirit vengeance and violence and, exchanging the truth for a lie served a created thing, rather than the creator. Apparently, this dark place and the heavens also are close enough to this physical realm for the dead to influence men and their societies, 1 Kings 22 22, 1 Samuel 16 14 and they have an intelligence suitable which i have called cunning, to attempt to bring about an end of men before the earth could no longer endure.
To accept what i am suggesting is to swallow yet another biblical contradiction; that all the testament is God inspired but not all God be praised. It is cannon to accept christs sacrifice on the cross as divine inspiration and neglect to address the reason it all had to come to pass- sin. Life in and of and through Christ was God plan,/ Christs' death life and sacrifice; divisiveness of someone else.- Go forth, fill the earth and subdue it. Before Abraham was, I am. I have come so they may have life.... //For this is your hour, when darkness reigns, Why then is it written the son of man much suffer at the hands of men?
It is a concern of mine that the prophets and the anointed of the lord jehovah were doing the work of the lord and not the work of God. -The only one who has been to heaven is the one who came down from heaven, Ye are the children of the devil and you seek to do his work. - My question is, then, how can you reconcile the actions of the spirit of the lord with the actions and intentions of christ and accept the same spiritual workings at the heart of both the lord of the israelites and father of christ? esp. in the context of the law, whereby one says, to fulfill the law, an adulterous woman must be stoned to death, the other saying, i DID fulfill the law.
Jehovah is credited with giving the law to men. In the new testament a posit is made that men cannot achieve this. If you think Paul was the mans man and as pious as a wooden yamaka then know despite being flawless in his execution of the law, christ still found fault in him. Indeed, does it speak to your heart to watch men beat someone to death, according to law? Do you think a man who kills a man is the devils pawn and deserves to be killed? Or do you think a man does not wish to kill a man, but is tempted to do so wrongly. Who then tempted pauls men to kill Stephen?
If you you thought christ was the embodiment of law, in as much as we are all men, made in Gods image all facing the same common problems, then your behavior and the law you abide by will be quite different. In fact if you try to enforce those laws, you will die in your sins. The bible is full of goadings, not contradictions, some of divinity some of righteousness, some are traps and pits and snares . If jehovah was god and christ is gods son, and judeaism is the worship of jehovah, why dont they use the new testament? Now, i will go one step futher and say, ALL this information and the bible is spurious and esoteric. If you arent using it to understand life and humanity and suffering, but to understand god, all the paths therein end in death. Maybe the one who is responsible for putting christ on the cross is the same one who wrote the end of the world and the death of all humans but couple hundred thousand.
Now consider this nightmare, which you see everyday; take as an example the epiphany of christ to paul. Did christ cut him to pieces using the laws of the israelites or did he not unscramble his brain by restoring his morality/logic/fellowship principles so that he could be a walking example of what christ is? For any who serve the testament as paul did produce the fruit he did and deny the christ law in hisself leaving a trail of suffering and bloodshed. Paul was a victim. Paul was oppressed. Christ restored him. So if you had lived in you sin and served the god of the living then you would have been put to death, in a sense, but not destroyed. Call Paul a child of the devil if you like, then understand what it was about paul christ destroyed, then walk outside and look around and ask yourself, which of these are the children of the devil who were not created by God? The war is for the souls of men, but for any one of these he will search, and if oppression in manifest in behavior and is observable then those who do not make peace, are not pure in heart, those who betray, those who destroy, are called devil children so they might be, i dunno, ostracized, imprisoned, beaten, killed by men at the behest of someone who sows oppression but if noone can serve two masters, then the destroyer cannot create life. Lots of words here, as surely as sin is present, but shall we do about this?
I will begin this lamentation with an aspirin and an invocation- Romans 1 18. The wrath of god is being revealed against the godless. What you are suggesting is this- Righteousness is doing what God says not to do, when God tells you to do it. Genesis 15 6. Abraham believed the lord, crediting him with righteousness. The problem comes when someone provokes your enemy to do what God tells you not to do- to you, when God tells him to do it... Then, if you did not understand why, if you could not justify your enemy, the hope is, you will blame God.
Down we go, its getting dark. People are jailed for breaking laws not found in the commandments or within your God given logic system, where do not kill REALLY lives. People will prosecute you for doing things they do themselves, not always to help you, but to glorify themselves, and others will stand by and hold their clothes while they do it. If you feel out of the loop, people will tell you to do things or imply they know things you don't, just to watch you make a fool of yourself or much much worse.
Now, we are in utter darkness, their is no light to find the exit, we are hungry, we become enraged, we have cursed God and here in a hole in the ground we find dispair, darkness and gloom. Here, we have been betrayed, here we will be destroyed. The contradiction is born of a blasphemy, a deception- We have attributed to the holy spirit vengeance and violence and, exchanging the truth for a lie served a created thing, rather than the creator. Apparently, this dark place and the heavens also are close enough to this physical realm for the dead to influence men and their societies, 1 Kings 22 22, 1 Samuel 16 14 and they have an intelligence suitable which i have called cunning, to attempt to bring about an end of men before the earth could no longer endure.
To accept what i am suggesting is to swallow yet another biblical contradiction; that all the testament is God inspired but not all God be praised. It is cannon to accept christs sacrifice on the cross as divine inspiration and neglect to address the reason it all had to come to pass- sin. Life in and of and through Christ was God plan,/ Christs' death life and sacrifice; divisiveness of someone else.- Go forth, fill the earth and subdue it. Before Abraham was, I am. I have come so they may have life.... //For this is your hour, when darkness reigns, Why then is it written the son of man much suffer at the hands of men?
It is a concern of mine that the prophets and the anointed of the lord jehovah were doing the work of the lord and not the work of God. -The only one who has been to heaven is the one who came down from heaven, Ye are the children of the devil and you seek to do his work. - My question is, then, how can you reconcile the actions of the spirit of the lord with the actions and intentions of christ and accept the same spiritual workings at the heart of both the lord of the israelites and father of christ? esp. in the context of the law, whereby one says, to fulfill the law, an adulterous woman must be stoned to death, the other saying, i DID fulfill the law.
Jehovah is credited with giving the law to men. In the new testament a posit is made that men cannot achieve this. If you think Paul was the mans man and as pious as a wooden yamaka then know despite being flawless in his execution of the law, christ still found fault in him. Indeed, does it speak to your heart to watch men beat someone to death, according to law? Do you think a man who kills a man is the devils pawn and deserves to be killed? Or do you think a man does not wish to kill a man, but is tempted to do so wrongly. Who then tempted pauls men to kill Stephen?
If you you thought christ was the embodiment of law, in as much as we are all men, made in Gods image all facing the same common problems, then your behavior and the law you abide by will be quite different. In fact if you try to enforce those laws, you will die in your sins. The bible is full of goadings, not contradictions, some of divinity some of righteousness, some are traps and pits and snares . If jehovah was god and christ is gods son, and judeaism is the worship of jehovah, why dont they use the new testament? Now, i will go one step futher and say, ALL this information and the bible is spurious and esoteric. If you arent using it to understand life and humanity and suffering, but to understand god, all the paths therein end in death. Maybe the one who is responsible for putting christ on the cross is the same one who wrote the end of the world and the death of all humans but couple hundred thousand.
Now consider this nightmare, which you see everyday; take as an example the epiphany of christ to paul. Did christ cut him to pieces using the laws of the israelites or did he not unscramble his brain by restoring his morality/logic/fellowship principles so that he could be a walking example of what christ is? For any who serve the testament as paul did produce the fruit he did and deny the christ law in hisself leaving a trail of suffering and bloodshed. Paul was a victim. Paul was oppressed. Christ restored him. So if you had lived in you sin and served the god of the living then you would have been put to death, in a sense, but not destroyed. Call Paul a child of the devil if you like, then understand what it was about paul christ destroyed, then walk outside and look around and ask yourself, which of these are the children of the devil who were not created by God? The war is for the souls of men, but for any one of these he will search, and if oppression in manifest in behavior and is observable then those who do not make peace, are not pure in heart, those who betray, those who destroy, are called devil children so they might be, i dunno, ostracized, imprisoned, beaten, killed by men at the behest of someone who sows oppression but if noone can serve two masters, then the destroyer cannot create life. Lots of words here, as surely as sin is present, but shall we do about this?
Well, if you notice the cruel rites and behavings of the nations which sourrounding Israel and when you then observe the following history of the nation Israel till they were captured from assyria and Babylon, then you maby understand that God is commanded Israel to Kill the nations including the Babys. Its sounds hard and unfair. But we forget that sin which looks like often so attraktive and without harm has only the Goal to destroy our lives and our relationship with our heavenly father. And the taking of woman from the sourounding nations causes Israel to worship their Gods.
And this brought finaly the punishment to Israel and Juda, unwillig to repent and went back to the one and only God.
And this brought finaly the punishment to Israel and Juda, unwillig to repent and went back to the one and only God.
Perfectly put sister.
That is exactly what it is. If you are given the death penalty in Texas for some horrific crime, no one is violating the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" by executing someone.
Its talking about among society, you cant just go around vigilante style taking people out for no reason, that is a sin and God hates it.
That is exactly what it is. If you are given the death penalty in Texas for some horrific crime, no one is violating the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" by executing someone.
Its talking about among society, you cant just go around vigilante style taking people out for no reason, that is a sin and God hates it.
Precisely the mirroring of the deception forced on the Israelites.
Take as an example: The epiphany of christ to paul. Did christ cut him to pieces using the laws of the israelites or did he not unscramble his brain by restoring his morality/logic/fellowship principles so that he could be a walking example of what christ is? We cannot deny christ in our brother when he does wrong, else we crucify the son of man all over again. For any who serve the testament as paul did produce the fruit he did and deny the christ law in hisself leaving a trail of suffering and bloodshed. Paul was a victim. Paul was oppressed. Christ restored him. So if you had lived in you sin and served the god of the living then you would have been put to death, in a sense, but not destroyed. Call Paul a child of the devil if you like, except he was flawless before the law, then understand what it was about paul christ destroyed, then walk outside and look around and ask yourself, which of these are the children of the devil who were not created by God? The war is for the souls of men, but for any one of a hundred he will search, and if oppression in manifest in behavior and is observable then those who do not make peace, are not pure in heart, those who betray, those who destroy, are called devil children so they might be, i dunno, ostracized, imprisoned, beaten, killed by men at the behest of someone who sows oppression but if noone can serve two masters, then the destroyer cannot create life.
The order of the soldier here is- To support and defend the constitution of the united states, what it means to be a soldier is to defend and protect the man next to you, but war is not of God or the logos of Christ, therefore, there is no one to defend him from except the deceived and the oppressed. Are we not all Gods people? Are all men not created equal?
All war is deception.
Take as an example: The epiphany of christ to paul. Did christ cut him to pieces using the laws of the israelites or did he not unscramble his brain by restoring his morality/logic/fellowship principles so that he could be a walking example of what christ is? We cannot deny christ in our brother when he does wrong, else we crucify the son of man all over again. For any who serve the testament as paul did produce the fruit he did and deny the christ law in hisself leaving a trail of suffering and bloodshed. Paul was a victim. Paul was oppressed. Christ restored him. So if you had lived in you sin and served the god of the living then you would have been put to death, in a sense, but not destroyed. Call Paul a child of the devil if you like, except he was flawless before the law, then understand what it was about paul christ destroyed, then walk outside and look around and ask yourself, which of these are the children of the devil who were not created by God? The war is for the souls of men, but for any one of a hundred he will search, and if oppression in manifest in behavior and is observable then those who do not make peace, are not pure in heart, those who betray, those who destroy, are called devil children so they might be, i dunno, ostracized, imprisoned, beaten, killed by men at the behest of someone who sows oppression but if noone can serve two masters, then the destroyer cannot create life.
The order of the soldier here is- To support and defend the constitution of the united states, what it means to be a soldier is to defend and protect the man next to you, but war is not of God or the logos of Christ, therefore, there is no one to defend him from except the deceived and the oppressed. Are we not all Gods people? Are all men not created equal?
All war is deception.
What on earth are you saying?
To answer your question: No we are not all God's people as you said, only Christians are God's people as the Bible teaches.
1 John 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
And NO to your question about equality as well, no such thing. Impartiality sure, but equality no.
As to the rest of your post, I had to decipher what you were saying and I am guessing you seemed to oppose the death penalty, well, the New Testament supports both and allows for men to be soldiers, Cornelius was a just man and served in the Roman army.
As for the death penalty, in the New Testament:
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 1:32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
So all you had to offer was your opinions and something weird about Paul, who would disagree with you. I hope we can agree on these verses.
To answer your question: No we are not all God's people as you said, only Christians are God's people as the Bible teaches.
1 John 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
And NO to your question about equality as well, no such thing. Impartiality sure, but equality no.
As to the rest of your post, I had to decipher what you were saying and I am guessing you seemed to oppose the death penalty, well, the New Testament supports both and allows for men to be soldiers, Cornelius was a just man and served in the Roman army.
As for the death penalty, in the New Testament:
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 1:32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
So all you had to offer was your opinions and something weird about Paul, who would disagree with you. I hope we can agree on these verses.