Irresistible Grace ?

[Duskey]

All unregenerate men will say no.

Where is this in Scripture?

 

[Hevosmies]

I believe in Eternal security and reject all 5 points . including the P

As do most on these forums, its the new flavour of the decade in the states. Whiteboards and bible study done solo. All of church history was nothing but hereticks (ck for the KJVonly folks)

 

[Hevosmies]

Where is this in Scripture?

Ephesians 2:3b: "[We] were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind."
Romans 3:10-11: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God."
Romans 8:7-9: "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him."
1 Corinthians 2:14: "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."


And many more, GOOGLE IT. Here is one (dunno about the site just looked it uphttps://www.theopedia.com/total-depravity

 

[throughfaith]

As do most on these forums, its the new flavour of the decade in the states. Whiteboards and bible study done solo. All of church history was nothing but hereticks (ck for the KJVonly folks)

I've no idea what your saying there . As for Calvinism its just Lordship salvation in disguise as Eternal security.

 

[John146]

Of course. All unregenerate men will say no.

The system comes from Ephesians 2:8 where faith is a gift. And other verses too, actually. that say the same thing!

Eternal security is Calvinism, it came from that BRANCH. Security of the believer is only possible if salvation is of the LORD and not up to man's will. That is why GOD saves AND sanctifies. Thats where both groups get it wrong. You got the lawless easybelievism crowd, and you got the legalist arminian side BOTH in error failing to reconcile all of SCripture together. Where both sides hold some truth, but the answer lies in JESUS doing it.

Man can never will salvation. If man is going to be saved, man has to do it God's way. Man can't will it any other way. God's way is through Jesus Christ, by believing the gospel of His death, burial and resurrection for sins. That's Romans 9 contrary to Calvin's private interpretation.

 

[John146]

I've no idea what your saying there . As for Calvinism its just Lordship salvation in disguise as Eternal security.

And fatalism...

 

[Hevosmies]

I've no idea what your saying there . As for Calvinism its just Lordship salvation in disguise as Eternal security.

Lordship salvation is biblical salvation, and not only that, you copied your theology from the "lordship salvation" crowd, you just removed the changed life part. As there WAS NO ONE who believed like you in Church history, until some yanks got together and whipped it up!

 

[Hevosmies]

Man can never will salvation. If man is going to be saved, man has to do it God's way. Man can't will it any other way. God's way is through Jesus Christ, by believing the gospel of His death, burial and resurrection for sins. That's Romans 9 contrary to Calvin's private interpretation.

Thanks bro! I still love you tho John remember that. Despite our disagreement on this, you are a solid guy, ive always been a fan.

I dont like to put a label on myself so I wuoldnt say im a calvinist, I just believe they were right on how salvation works that its ALL GOD.

 

[throughfaith]

Lordship salvation is biblical salvation, and not only that, you copied your theology from the "lordship salvation" crowd, you just removed the changed life part. As there WAS NO ONE who believed like you in Church history, until some yanks got together and whipped it up!

Well no one believed what you believe today , before Augustine . A changed life I'm all for, actually. But thats subjective . Mormons have a 'changed life ' and there not even Christian.

 

[throughfaith]

Lordship salvation is biblical salvation, and not only that, you copied your theology from the "lordship salvation" crowd, you just removed the changed life part. As there WAS NO ONE who believed like you in Church history, until some yanks got together and whipped it up!

The P in Tulip is actually worse than works salvation , because its more subtle . Christians are more likely to get drawn into the P because it looks like Eternal security . Some who don't know the difference between Calvinism and Arminism ( they both are wrong for the same reasons ) will ask which one believes in OSAS ? And of course the answer comes back " oh us calvinists do " ..From there you have the beginnings of a calvinist convert .

 

[John146]

The P in Tulip is actually worse than works salvation , because its more subtle . Christians are more likely to get drawn into the P because it looks like Eternal security . Some who don't know the difference between Calvinism and Arminism ( they both are wrong for the same reasons ) will ask which one believes in OSAS ? And of course the answer comes back " oh us calvinists do " ..From there you have the beginnings of a calvinist convert .

I wonder what calvinists think about Demas?

 

[Nehemiah6]

The verses you give have no mention of ' drawing ' . Yes they can come .

John 12:32 mentions "drawing" and Revelation 22:17 means drawing when you closely examine what it says. So you are mistaken. As to further discussion in the epistles, it is unnecessary. God is sparing with His words, and Christ was never wordy (unlike theologians).

 

[throughfaith]

I wonder what calvinists think about Demas?

Good point.

 

[throughfaith]

John 12:32 mentions "drawing" and Revelation 22:17 means drawing when you closely examine what it says. So you are mistaken. As to further discussion in the epistles, it is unnecessary. God is sparing with His words, and Christ was never wordy (unlike theologians).

Do you hold to irresistible Grace or previenient Grace even?

 

[throughfaith]

John 12:32 mentions "drawing" and Revelation 22:17 means drawing when you closely examine what it says. So you are mistaken. As to further discussion in the epistles, it is unnecessary. God is sparing with His words, and Christ was never wordy (unlike theologians).

If irresistible Grace were true then Paul would mention this at least once in 13 epistles. There would be no need for most of what Paul teaches if all we needed was irresistible grace .

 

[Hevosmies]

Well no one believed what you believe today , before Augustine . A changed life I'm all for, actually. But thats subjective . Mormons have a 'changed life ' and there not even Christian.

Glad to hear your all for a changed life. NO problem with you whatsoever then. I like you bro

You are right, no one believed in what is KNOWN as calvinism today before Augustine "systematized it" and the version Augustine held to is different from the TULIP of today. Augustine believed in a losable salvation, ATLEAST based on how I understood his statements when I was reading his writings.

 

[John146]

Glad to hear your all for a changed life. NO problem with you whatsoever then. I like you bro

You are right, no one believed in what is KNOWN as calvinism today before Augustine "systematized it" and the version Augustine held to is different from the TULIP of today. Augustine believed in a losable salvation, ATLEAST based on how I understood his statements when I was reading his writings.

Just curious brother, do you think Demas was saved?

 

[Hevosmies]

Just curious brother, do you think Demas was saved?

No, because Paul said he was in love with this present world etc.

Being in love with this present world in the Bible is not a good thing, and here is proof of why I believe Demas was in fact lost as Paul said it clearly imo:

1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Also in 2 Timothy 4:8 Paul speaks about folks loving the Lord's appearing and given crowns, then two verses later Demas is clearly not one of these fellas, as he is loving the present world.

 

[John146]

No, because Paul said he was in love with this present world etc.

Being in love with this present world in the Bible is not a good thing, and here is proof of why I believe Demas was in fact lost as Paul said it clearly imo:

1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Also in 2 Timothy 4:8 Paul speaks about folks loving the Lord's appearing and given crowns, then two verses later Demas is clearly not one of these fellas, as he is loving the present world.

Don’t you know believers who love this present world? Isn’t it possible?

Demas was a fellowlabourer of Paul

Philippians 1:
23 There salute thee Epaphras, my fellowprisoner in Christ Jesus;
24 Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.
25 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

 

[Hevosmies]

Don’t you know believers who love this present world? Isn’t it possible?

Demas was a fellowlabourer of Paul

Philippians 1:
23 There salute thee Epaphras, my fellowprisoner in Christ Jesus;
24 Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.
25 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

^It says what it says.