Would it be safer to die early in Lord ?

[Guojing]

Today, faith without works is dead and prior to the Tribulation.
At the judgment when the book of life is opened, every Christian will be judged for their works while holding to the name of Christ.
This is why, if our works, deeds, mean nothing to our salvation as some churches teach, then those churches and their leadership will have to explain that part of Revelation.

If you believe in that, how would you understand romans 4:5 then?

 

[soggykitten]

If you believe in that, how would you understand romans 4:5 then?

God justified us through his gift of grace by removing our sin and our guilt as sinners who came to faith in Christ. We don't work for that. It is a free gift of God's grace through our faith.
Those who are ungodly don't work for the kingdom at God's behest and yet if they hold faith in God they are still considered righteous by God for having faith. Which is odd I do admit. The ungodly are deemed righteous by God because they hold faith in God as one who is ungodly?

How then do you explain James 2? And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. 24 As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

 

[Guojing]

God justified us through his gift of grace by removing our sin and our guilt as sinners who came to faith in Christ. We don't work for that. It is a free gift of God's grace through our faith.
Those who are ungodly don't work for the kingdom at God's behest and yet if they hold faith in God they are still considered righteous by God for having faith. Which is odd I do admit. The ungodly are deemed righteous by God because they hold faith in God as one who is ungodly?

How then do you explain James 2? And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. 24 As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

So you cannot have it both ways, if you believe that we are now saved by faith apart from works, you cannot also hold that view faith without works is dead during this time period.

As for James, as I already told you, after the Body of Christ raptured, its no longer faith alone apart from works that will save you. God commands every believer then to trust in him and not take the mark of the beast.

If you take the mark, you would have shown to God you lack faith in his commandments., and hence, you will not be saved.

The way to understand James 2 is by rightly dividing the word of truth. James 2 is salvation doctrine for the Tribulation period, which we are not currently in now.

 

[Fundamental]

Jesus reconciled the whole world by dealing with the ' barrier ' so to speak between man and God . Those like Abraham would have been lost if Jesus had not Died for His sins also . Jesus ,the lamb of God that took away the sins of the world . Thats why he cried out " it is finished " . its done . But if a person does nothing to recieve Jesus this is of no consolation to him .What has God commanded ? That we believe the Gospel. Then he saves us . its that simple. You would reject the gift by trying to do your bit to help Jesus . There's nothing you can do to keep your self saved even if you could . God knows this ,that's why He sent His Son . He died for you , believe it .

Do you have a verse about the Holy Spirit convicting us of the sins we do ?

See that makes no sense ( with respect) The bible is Clear that Jesus did something pretty major on the cross ,which i believe a lot of people are confused about. You say right that we could never attain . That s why it had to be the perfect ,spotless Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world . Do you believe that ?

But if you receieve Jesus you become a new person. Your every consumption is looked at differently.
I believe He died for us all and rose again, so we might all be saved.

I see it a lot in church, people thinking that believing is enough while not changing their life to neglect sin out. Some churches even teach you can eat pork and use scripture where Jesus addresses pharisees when His disciples did not wash their hands.
If we want to follow Jesus, would we still eat meat that is enslaving human and animal enslaving the entire earth? Honest question, not to judge or anything. It’s a real struggle in my head time to time.

Jesus said we must follow Him to gain the Kingdom but it will be easier to push a camel through the eye of a needle.

 

[Magenta]

Read the parable of the 3 men who were trusted with a certain amount of talents by their master. Two of the men, by the bold actions they took, increased the amount. The remaining man was fearful, played it safe, and therefore missed an opportunity to serve his master.

If you want to serve the Lord you have to be willing to get your head into the game. Playing safe isn't going to cut it. Being fearful of losing your salvation comes into play when wondering if it were to be better to die now or risk screwing up later and losing your salvation. The thing is that Jesus said that He has not lost a single one that the Father has trusted into His care.

"Fear not" says the Lord. That is the mantra in the paradigm that I operate under.

John10-27-28

 

[throughfaith]

But if you receieve Jesus you become a new person. Your every consumption is looked at differently.
I believe He died for us all and rose again, so we might all be saved.

I see it a lot in church, people thinking that believing is enough while not changing their life to neglect sin out. Some churches even teach you can eat pork and use scripture where Jesus addresses pharisees when His disciples did not wash their hands.
If we want to follow Jesus, would we still eat meat that is enslaving human and animal enslaving the entire earth? Honest question, not to judge or anything. It’s a real struggle in my head time to time.

Jesus said we must follow Him to gain the Kingdom but it will be easier to push a camel through the eye of a needle.

Somehow you have been taught , works salvation. No thats actually wrong and that is disobeying. Jesus has done what we could not . We are to live BECAUSE of what Jesus has done ,not work for it as if we could add to it . We live as we believe . If you do not believe Jesus has forgiven you and taken away your sins , you will live no different than before. Other than trying really , really ,really hard to do good ( Romans 7 ) This is a recipe for defeat, despair and failure. False teaching says, ' we are a new creation , and therefore we don't sin anymore. Nonsense. The new creation is not physical, its spiritual. We transform by our minds outward ,not behaviour rehabilitation. Our minds need to believe we are saved , secure and transformed positionally. We are bought by Jesus, no longer our own , our sins no longer can be judged . We are no longer under the penalty of sin . We are free to righteousness now and freed from sins penalty and condemnation. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. it cannot be undone .

 

[Fundamental]

Somehow you have been taught , works salvation. No thats actually wrong and that is disobeying. Jesus has done what we could not . We are to live BECAUSE of what Jesus has done ,not work for it as if we could add to it . We live as we believe . If you do not believe Jesus has forgiven you and taken away your sins , you will live no different than before. Other than trying really , really ,really hard to do good ( Romans 7 ) This is a recipe for defeat, despair and failure. False teaching says, ' we are a new creation , and therefore we don't sin anymore. Nonsense. The new creation is not physical, its spiritual. We transform by our minds outward ,not behaviour rehabilitation. Our minds need to believe we are saved , secure and transformed positionally. We are bought by Jesus, no longer our own , our sins no longer can be judged . We are no longer under the penalty of sin . We are free to righteousness now and freed from sins penalty and condemnation. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. it cannot be undone .

If it’s spiritual there is nothing pyshical anymore to gain. You are living in the world of the devil until Jesus returns. Jesus defeated satan, but we can only defeat satan by following Jesus.

Following Jesus is doing what He did. Not just believing what He did imho.

 

[Jackson123]

My position is that God will not allow anyone to forfeit their salvation.

God not allow any one to murder other, but one have a free will to do i

 

[throughfaith]

If it’s spiritual there is nothing pyshical anymore to gain. You are living in the world of the devil until Jesus returns. Jesus defeated satan, but we can only defeat satan by following Jesus.

Following Jesus is doing what He did. Not just believing what He did imho.

The 'physical ' will be a consequence of what we believe . Thats why Paul says this in Romans 6
Likewise RECKON ( Beleive as true ) ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
And romans 12
2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your MIND , that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[Jackson123]

So you cannot have it both ways, if you believe that we are now saved by faith apart from works, you cannot also hold that view faith without works is dead during this time period.

As for James, as I already told you, after the Body of Christ raptured, its no longer faith alone apart from works that will save you. God commands every believer then to trust in him and not take the mark of the beast.

If you take the mark, you would have shown to God you lack faith in his commandments., and hence, you will not be saved.

The way to understand James 2 is by rightly dividing the word of truth. James 2 is salvation doctrine for the Tribulation period, which we are not currently in now.

James talk to the Christian in his time, he not say that teaching only for future Christian in tribulation

 

[Fundamental]

The 'physical ' will be a consequence of what we believe . Thats why Paul says this in Romans 6
Likewise RECKON ( Beleive as true ) ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
And romans 12
2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your MIND , that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Exactly my point. What we do is determined by our faith. If we dont walk by faith but by sight we are still pleasing this world. Once having solid ground beneath your feet standing firm on faith, we change everything in our lives. I even stopped seeing specific people. We used to go out with friends and have good times, I’ve become so doll and boring according to most of them. To me that’s a signal I’m closing in to God. Because nothing this world and the godless have to offer me can overrule Gods power.

For instance throughfaith. I used to swear, not so much anymore because I know it is not obeying God. Obeying God is putting your faith into deeds.

 

[throughfaith]

Exactly my point. What we do is determined by our faith. If we dont walk by faith but by sight we are still pleasing this world. Once having solid ground beneath your feet standing firm on faith, we change everything in our lives. I even stopped seeing specific people. We used to go out with friends and have good times, I’ve become so doll and boring according to most of them. To me that’s a signal I’m closing in to God. Because nothing this world and the godless have to offer me can overrule Gods power.

For instance throughfaith. I used to swear, not so much anymore because I know it is not obeying God. Obeying God is putting your faith into deeds.

Thats great . And thats the only way to have Joy ,truly whilst we are still here on earth . Also its the only way we will share this good news to others and to forgive others ..But not to earn or keep ourselves saved though .

 

[Guojing]

James talk to the Christian in his time, he not say that teaching only for future Christian in tribulation

He is writing to the 12 tribes, which always represents the nation Israel

And the tribulation is for that same nation

 

[Fundamental]

Thats great . And thats the only way to have Joy ,truly whilst we are still here on earth . Also its the only way we will share this good news to others and to forgive others ..But not to earn or keep ourselves saved though .

Yes I think we’re getting to a same opinion here. Yet when I talk about Jesus to some friends I really appreciate they come with science. Some don’t even accept my choice and laughed in my face. Some don’t want saving and are convinced of their own assumptions.

My mother is deep into the occult and Ive been trying to turn her to Jesus, but she keeps bringing up these occult messages coming from books of Neale Donald Walsche, not seeing what is being said between the lines there. She believes Jesus but she shaped Him to her image, while it should be the other way around.

So give her some more time and let her die old, maybe shell still turn to Christ lol.

 

[throughfaith]

Yes I think we’re getting to a same opinion here. Yet when I talk about Jesus to some friends I really appreciate they come with science. Some don’t even accept my choice and laughed in my face. Some don’t want saving and are convinced of their own assumptions.

My mother is deep into the occult and Ive been trying to turn her to Jesus, but she keeps bringing up these occult messages coming from books of Neale Donald Walsche, not seeing what is being said between the lines there. She believes Jesus but she shaped Him to her image, while it should be the other way around.

So give her some more time and let her die old, maybe shell still turn to Christ lol.

My mother is also unsaved and all my family also . I'm literally the only one .

 

[Fundamental]

My mother is also unsaved and all my family also . I'm literally the only one .

So them living longer gives us the benefit of time to show Christ ways are the only way
My mother was amazed on how much I’ve changed through faith.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

There are a few ways Christians interpret that passage.

The most popular one is to interpret sin there as "persistent" sinning. According to this view, you can sin occasionally but you must keep repenting of that sin, following the famous 1 John 1:9 prescription, and be willing to take effort to resist and stop that sin.

Those who don't confess that sin and take active steps to resist sinning are not really born of God, hence they are not really saved.

After we confess which Is once,right?
Although we still sin In the flesh our spirit Is made Perfect and after our spirit Is made Perfect we will then seek to purify themselves even as they are pure In other words renew our minds to the new creation we have become.
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Hebrews 12:23
King James Version

23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
+++

John 4:23
King James Version

23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
+++

Ephesians 2:10-11
King James Version

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
+++

 

[Jackson123]

He is writing to the 12 tribes, which always represents the nation Israel

And the tribulation is for that same nation

How do you know that letter only for the future 12 tribe.

12 tribe was exist before James born

 

[Guojing]

After we confess which Is once,right?
Although we still sin In the flesh our spirit Is made Perfect and after our spirit Is made Perfect we will then seek to purify themselves even as they are pure In other words renew our minds to the new creation we have become.
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Hebrews 12:23
King James Version

23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
+++

John 4:23
King James Version

23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
+++

Ephesians 2:10-11
King James Version

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
+++

You seem to be referring to the 2nd interpretation method, which means, once you are saved, since your spirit is sealed by the Holy Spirit, you can sin in the flesh, but your spirit cannot sin?

Thus, under this view, John is talking about the impossibility of the reborn spirit to ever sin.

Did I interpret what you are saying correctly?

 

[throughfaith]

So them living longer gives us the benefit of time to show Christ ways are the only way
My mother was amazed on how much I’ve changed through faith.

For unbelievers of course ,absolutely. The longer the better. If losing salvation is true ( which its not ) for a believer , then no .I believe if a believe could lose salvation then we all ! would without question . its a delusion to think we could maintain and keep our salvation.