Since Faith is a Gift, is Suffering Also a Gift?

[MessageOfTheCross]

The Finished Work of Jesus Christ is the same as, i.e, the Cross, i.e., the Blood of Jesus.

The Believer must understand that when God doesn't see the Believers heart exhibiting Faith in His beloved Son in whom He is pleased, Jesus, and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was one, we have chosen another Jesus (2 Cor. 11:4) which produces strange fire and strange incenses.

When Aaron's sons Nadab & Abihu, Priests of God, ordained of God, called by God, and anointed by God - failed to take coals of fire from the Brazen Altar (A Type of Calvary), but from another source, and put those coals of fire on the Golden Altar, which sat immediately in front of the Veil, which hid the Holy of Holies, where God dwelt between the Mercy seat and the Cherubim. They were devoured by fire from the Holy of Holies. In other words, to do such was, in effect, to bypass Calvary, which God could not tolerate.

All types of Strange fire are being offered up today in Christendom. It looks right, and it looks real, but it does not originate with the Cross. As a result, it cannot be right, and most definitely, it will ultimately be judged by God. As should be plainly and clearly obvious, the Cross is not something that can be ignored. The fire of judgment will consume the Sacrifice, i.e., "Christ," or else it will consume the individual. In other words, we go Christ's way, which is the Cross, or else we face the Judgement of God.

Victory = The Cross of Christ, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, i.e., The Finished Work

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.
4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.

JSM

 

[throughfaith]

The Cross of Christ is as necessary for sanctification as it is for salvation (1 Cor. 1:18).

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood (i.e., the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work), you have no life in you," (presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" (John 6:66). It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you.)

John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.

Sanctifying peace allows the Holy Spirit to deliver the Believer into the death of Christ so Christ life is manifested through the Believer (2 Cor. 4:11, Gal. 2:20-21, Romans 8:2,13, John 14:21). I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me (Who Jesus Is), and gave himself for me (What Jesus Has Done on the Cross for us where the victory was won). Gal. 2:20

If The Believer doesn't enter into the LORD's rest, they die in the wilderness...only a few enter into His rest!

JSM

many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" (John 6:66). It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you.)///// This was before the cross ?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

This was before the cross ?

You are reading it from the letter of the law.

And he said to them all, If any man will come after Me (the criteria for Discipleship), let him deny himself (not asceticism as many think, but rather that one denies one's own willpower, self-will, strength, and ability, depending totally on Christ), and take up his cross (the benefits of the Cross, looking exclusively to what Jesus did there to meet our every need) daily (this is so important, our looking to the Cross; that we must renew our Faith in what Christ has done for us, even on a daily basis, for Satan will ever try to move us away from the Cross as the Object of our Faith, which always spells disaster), and follow Me (Christ can be followed only by the Believer looking to the Cross, understanding what it accomplished, and by that means alone [Rom. 6:3-5, 11, 14; 8:1-2, 11; 1 Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 3:14-15]). Luke 9:23

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it (try to live one's life outside of Christ and the Cross): but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it (when we place our Faith entirely in Christ and the Cross, looking exclusively to Him, we have just found "more Abundant Life" [John 10:10]) Luke 9:24

JSM

 

[throughfaith]

You are reading it from the letter of the law.

And he said to them all, If any man will come after Me (the criteria for Discipleship), let him deny himself (not asceticism as many think, but rather that one denies one's own willpower, self-will, strength, and ability, depending totally on Christ), and take up his cross (the benefits of the Cross, looking exclusively to what Jesus did there to meet our every need) daily (this is so important, our looking to the Cross; that we must renew our Faith in what Christ has done for us, even on a daily basis, for Satan will ever try to move us away from the Cross as the Object of our Faith, which always spells disaster), and follow Me (Christ can be followed only by the Believer looking to the Cross, understanding what it accomplished, and by that means alone [Rom. 6:3-5, 11, 14; 8:1-2, 11; 1 Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 3:14-15]). Luke 9:23

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it (try to live one's life outside of Christ and the Cross): but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it (when we place our Faith entirely in Christ and the Cross, looking exclusively to Him, we have just found "more Abundant Life" [John 10:10]) Luke 9:24

JSM

Jesus tells all of this before the cross happens. All who hear fail and flee ? that's why there is no mention of taking up a cross by Paul .

 

[throughfaith]

You are reading it from the letter of the law.

And he said to them all, If any man will come after Me (the criteria for Discipleship), let him deny himself (not asceticism as many think, but rather that one denies one's own willpower, self-will, strength, and ability, depending totally on Christ), and take up his cross (the benefits of the Cross, looking exclusively to what Jesus did there to meet our every need) daily (this is so important, our looking to the Cross; that we must renew our Faith in what Christ has done for us, even on a daily basis, for Satan will ever try to move us away from the Cross as the Object of our Faith, which always spells disaster), and follow Me (Christ can be followed only by the Believer looking to the Cross, understanding what it accomplished, and by that means alone [Rom. 6:3-5, 11, 14; 8:1-2, 11; 1 Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 3:14-15]). Luke 9:23

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it (try to live one's life outside of Christ and the Cross): but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it (when we place our Faith entirely in Christ and the Cross, looking exclusively to Him, we have just found "more Abundant Life" [John 10:10]) Luke 9:24

JSM

Again you keeping quoting before the cross ? When a person is in christ he has found the way and denied himself .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

reply 10# answered well .

reply # 10 is a horrible response. and is dead wrong, Me and him have gone over that to many times to even count.

While Christs faith on the cross gave me the ability to be saved. I still had to chose to have faith or I could not be justified.

That faith is a gift. because apart from ther cross. I coud never have the opportunity to trust him for salvation

 

[crossnote]

Acts 5:27-42

And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, saying, “We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you intend to bring this man's blood upon us.” But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

When they heard this, they were enraged and wanted to kill them. But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while. And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered. So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!” So they took his advice, and when they had called in the apostles, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. Then they left the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name. And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they did not cease teaching and preaching that the Christ is Jesus.

But is suffering a gift?

 

[crossnote]

As to suffering, all Christian will suffer, but some more than others, And few like Job.

Do you see suffering as a gift?

 

[crossnote]

Since Saving Faith is not gift your premise has gotten off to a bad start, with respect . There are many things that are given ( After John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. that don't involve gnostic means .All has been given .

You seem to delight in debating or in being right.
Could you compare and comment on Eph 2:8 with Phil 1:29?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

When a person is in christ he has found the way and denied himself .

If this was true (speaking of how we live for God on a daily basis) why did Paul under the power of Holy Spirit write Romans 7, and Galatians 2:21?

 

[John146]

reply # 10 is a horrible response. and is dead wrong, Me and him have gone over that to many times to even count.

While Christs faith on the cross gave me the ability to be saved. I still had to chose to have faith or I could not be justified.

That faith is a gift. because apart from ther cross. I coud never have the opportunity to trust him for salvation

Scripture is a always right. The faith of Christ is imputed to those who believe. I have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ that what He accomplished on the cross would justify me. His faith justifies the believer. One must believe first. We are called believers not faithers...

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[crossnote]

Suffering can and does bring you much closer to God.

It sure does and in hat way it is a gift of sorts.

 

[crossnote]

Since we recieve all things After we believe not before . Before we are saved we do not have the Holy Spirit nor any 'gifts 'that accompany The Holy spirit . God is not handing out gifts to unsaved people .

True, but the unsaved suffer as well, or is suffering not a gift for them?

 

[throughfaith]

If this was true (speaking of how we live for God on a daily basis) why did Paul under the power of Holy Spirit write Romans 7, and Galatians 2:21?

How we live as saved and how to be saved are two different things .

 

[JaumeJ]

His sun shines on the just and the unjust alike, and His rain is for both also.

No man is or has anything unless our Father allows........

My post is in response to yours here, not to another post. I did include it in my response to YOU.

Please do not make discussion d into your private game, it is not suited to the purpose of the Forum

 

[throughfaith]

How we live as saved and how to be saved are two different things .

verse 20 is key .
19For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[stepbystep]

I believe suffering can be something God allows us to go through for the purpose of spiritual growth through an increase in our belief and faith. Suffering is also an all to real fact of living in a fallen creation because it is not only Christians who suffer. Unbelievers suffer as much as Christians, and, possibly more so, for they do not have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to strengthen, and support them through times of suffering.

Jesus said that everything they did to him, they would do to us, and more.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Scripture is a always right. The faith of Christ is imputed to those who believe. I have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ that what He accomplished on the cross would justify me. His faith justifies the believer. One must believe first. We are called believers not faithers...

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The righteousness of Christ which is based on his faith is imputed i agree
but we are talking about our personal faith in Christ which according to John 3 John 6 EPH 1 etc etc. as being a gift of God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow what’s up with the cut and paste from a certain member that was uncalled for

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

How we live as saved and how to be saved are two different things .

We are saved by Grace through Faith in Christ and Him Crucified, and we live by Grace through Faith in Christ and Him Crucified. ONLY!