Sabbath Day

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
929
136
43
#41
W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:
Um, that William Edwy Vine who borrowed his definitions from Westcott and Hort (both closet Catholics and spiritists, based upon the Alexandrian emended MSS Aleph (Sinaiticus) and B (Vaticanus)) and Joseph Henry Thayer (the Unitarian)???, and who simply gave his opinion based upon no evidence in spite of all the historical evidence and local context of Hebrews 3-4, contrary to his erroneous position??? that William Edwy Vine?
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
929
136
43
#43
Please show me where I said it says... oh wait, you cannot, for I said no such thing despite your blatantly false accusation.

You are bearing false witness. Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord.
Seems you like purple more than truth. Go back and read what I said (slowly).
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,274
29,547
113
#44
Seems you like purple more than truth. Go back and read what I said (slowly).
I don't need to go back and read where you claimed I said something I did not. You need to own up to the truth.

But for the sake of clarity?

Where in the text that you cited did it say, "Jesus is [our] rest"? I see where Jesus gives to us rest, from sin (transgression of the Law of God, the Ten Commandments), but I see no where in the text you cited what you said it says, neither do I see (read) it anywhere say that Jesus gave us rest from resting in/on the sabbath of the LORD.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,477
13,420
113
58
#45
Ummm, no. It is historically used as literal keeping of sabbath in every known instance:
False and it's painfully obvious to me that you are thoroughly indoctrinated into SDA propaganda and are unteachable. :( I sincerely hope and pray that you find your way out of the SDA cult.

Here are quotes below from two other SDA's that I've been in discussions with on Christian forum sites, which demonstrates that SDA's pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" which is more than a subtle mixture of law and grace which is a perversion of the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)

Under the "one gospel" preached in the OT even to Abraham Gal 3:8 and in the NT
"This IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
Ex 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus"

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

Even when SDA's set out to keep the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant law would require compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). No kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).

These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1). If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why don't SDA's seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it? If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Is the Seventh Day Adventist church going to enforce that? What about the Jewish synagogue? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant law, no SDA can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
929
136
43
#47
anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Is the Seventh Day Adventist church going to enforce that?
Already answered you (on many forums, you never respond to it in any way that is relevant to the material in it)


Powerpoint (you can read, can't you?):
https://archive.org/download/sticks-stones-do-you-stone-the-sabbath-breaker/Sticks & Stones - Do You Stone The Sabbath Breaker.pptx
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
929
136
43
#48
I don't need to go back and read where you claimed I said something I did not.
That's why I said to go back and read, because you are claiming I said you said something else than you said, when I did not say something else than you said, but state what you said and refuted it. You then called me the liar. I only stated you are in error based upon your present wrong theological position. You judged my character. You need to rethink your purple (a color of Royalty, based upon the Blue of God's Holy and Eternal Law, and Blood Red, the color of His Sacrifice and Shed Blood for the broken Law)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,477
13,420
113
58
#49

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,477
13,420
113
58
#50

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,274
29,547
113
#51
That's why I said to go back and read, because you are claiming I said you said something else than you said, when I did not say something else than you said, but state what you said and refuted it. You then called me the liar. I only stated you are in error based upon your present wrong theological position. You judged my character. You need to rethink your purple (a color of Royalty, based upon the Blue of God's Holy and Eternal Law, and Blood Red, the color of His Sacrifice and Shed Blood for the broken Law)
Yes, you are a liar.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
#52
Where in the text that you cited did it say, "Jesus is [our] rest"? I see where Jesus gives to us rest, from sin (transgression of the Law of God, the Ten Commandments), but I see no where in the text you cited what you said it says, neither do I see (read) it anywhere say that Jesus gave us rest from resting in/on the sabbath of the LORD.

Seems you are advocating works salvation, but call it 'rest'.

Isa_57:20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
===========================================================
this is quarrelsome and unkind - please find your manners...

I doubt very much if our Saviour favors quarreling over His Word, He surely
does not need defending...
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,477
13,420
113
58
#53
Ummm, no. It is historically used as literal keeping of sabbath in every known instance:

Hebrews 3-4 (among many others; John 14:15; Exodus 20:6; Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7, Acts 4:24, 14:15; Revelation 10:6, 14:6-7, &c).

Hebrews 3-4 is clear.

Hebrews 4:3, "my (God's) rest" and "the works were finished from the foundation of the world", which is a direct reference to Genesis 2:1-3. It even uses the word "finished". God rested the 7th day in Genesis 2:1-3. It is His rest, the 7th day, the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God, Exodus 20:8-11.

Hebrews 4:4, "he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works", which "certain place" is Genesis 2:1-3; re-cited in Exodus 20:8-11. The 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God.

Hebrews 4:5, "my (God's) rest)", citing Psalms 95, which is citing Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11, etc. Again, this is the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of God at Creation in Genesis 2:1-3.

Hebrews 4:6, "remaineth", from when? "from the foundation of the world" as per Hebrews 4:3 and thus it is not new, but has been around from the beginning.

Hebrews 4:9, "rest", sabbatismos, literally and truly sabbath keeping in scripture and in all known extant Greek sources, dictionaries, and so on and again "remaineth".

Hebrews 4:10, "his (God's) rest", which is the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God from Genesis 2:1-3., "as God did from his (works)", which "works were finished from the foundation of the world" as per Hebrews 4:3.

Hebrews 4:11, "that rest" (ie God's rest), the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God.
Wrong. As I already explained in post #34. Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used no where else in the Bible! SDA's suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else in the Bible!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=35458

Hebrews 4:10 says the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. That person has entered in God’s rest through Jesus "rests from his own work" (in contrast of trying to keep the Law) as God ceased or rested from His works in the seventh day of Creation. God's ultimate, true rest did not come through Joshua or Moses, but through Jesus Christ. Joshua led Israel into the promised land, which was merely the earthly rest which was but a shadow of what was involved in the heavenly rest. The rest in Christ that God offers is spiritual and is superior to that which Joshua obtained. Israel's earthly rest was filled with conflict and attacks from their enemies and the daily cycle of work. The "sabbatismos" rest enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law, is found only in Christ and not Law keeping.

Although for centuries the Jews had found their physical rest in a day, the New Covenant takes the focus off the shadows of the Old Testament signs and rituals and reveals their spiritual substance -- the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17) Christians find complete Sabbath "sabbatismos" rest in Christ's finished work on the cross. The New Testament Sabbath rest is entered into by ceasing from one’s "works" of trying to earn salvation though keeping the Law. Paul explains that the Jewish holy days, including the weekly Sabbath, were merely a “shadow” which pointed to Christ; therefore, Christians should not feel obligated to observe them once the “reality” has come (Colossians 2.16-17). Because Jesus and the New Testament writers never reiterate the Sabbath command as they do the moral principles contained in the other 9 commandments, Christians are not obligated to observe a literal weekly Sabbath day.

The Greek word sabbatismos occurs only once in the Bible: "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest [sabbatismos] for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience" Hebrews 4:9-11, NIV.

http://www.sabbatismos.com/#sthash.ICZ7XtGk.dpbs
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,477
13,420
113
58
#54
"few others"??? Do you know how many actually came out of Egypt, and it is called the "mixed multitude", not the scattered "few".
Doesn't change Exodus 31:16-17; Exodus 35:1-4; Deuteronomy 5:1-15; Nehemiah 9:13-14 now does it?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,477
13,420
113
58
#56
Ummm, no. It is historically used as literal keeping of sabbath in every known instance:
Do you believe that Christians who do not keep the Sabbath day according to the old covenant law (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) will not be saved?

Do you also believe that near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday? - https://nonsda.org/study8.shtml
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,324
6,693
113
#57
That's why I said to go back and read, because you are claiming I said you said something else than you said, when I did not say something else than you said, but state what you said and refuted it. You then called me the liar. I only stated you are in error based upon your present wrong theological position. You judged my character. You need to rethink your purple (a color of Royalty, based upon the Blue of God's Holy and Eternal Law, and Blood Red, the color of His Sacrifice and Shed Blood for the broken Law)
so. what do you think about ellen white???
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,945
1,268
113
Australia
#58
indoctrinated into SDA propaganda ......

Is the Seventh Day Adventist church going to enforce that? What about the Jewish synagogue? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant law, no SDA can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
The SDA church has explained it simply.
The law of ordinance contained in shadows was abolished at the cross,
And the law of liberty written on stone still stands.
You know this and agree that the shadows were fulfilled at the cross. But you seperate the one comandment we are told to remember and say it is a shadow fulfilled in Christ when Sda's think it is a moral law, like the other 9 written on stone.
 

stepbystep

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2020
619
496
63
#59
Between ignorance and presumption is a fine line:

1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
I would think the fine line would come into play when a person speaks of keeping the Jewish Sabbath simply because they then must keep all 613 Laws. I can not find a record of any Jew who kept all 613 Laws their entire lives. I would think that this is why God came up with the idea of the Promise. That being the promise of eternal life through grace to be brought to the Jews by the Messiah.

I also stated in my comment that we are to worship God every day. Not sure why you missed that part of my comment.

I will put my faith in Jesus and the Gospel he taught, and leave the Mosaic Laws to the Jews who denied Jesus.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,274
29,547
113
#60
I would think the fine line would come into play when a person speaks of keeping the Jewish Sabbath simply because they then must keep all 613 Laws. I can not find a record of any Jew who kept all 613 Laws their entire lives. I would think that this is why God came up with the idea of the Promise. That being the promise of eternal life through grace to be brought to the Jews by the Messiah.

I also stated in my comment that we are to worship God every day. Not sure why you missed that part of my comment.

I will put my faith in Jesus and the Gospel he taught, and leave the Mosaic Laws to the Jews who denied Jesus.
Amen :)

After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days, God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.” Acts 15:7-11