Do sinners (people who still sin) see their sin in others?

[Dino246]

I have seen this several times. In the worst case, the other person refused to even consider the possibility that they were in the wrong until I dealt with all my sin.

 

[Lion222]

I have seen this several times. In the worst case, the other person refused to even consider the possibility that they were in the wrong until I dealt with all my sin.

By that they meant all the sin they judged you to have???

 

[Dino246]

By that they meant all the sin they judged you to have???

Exactly.

 

[Lion222]

Would sinners even know what sin is unless they are open to receive the blessed teaching that tells them of their lost state? And the path to repentance and redemption and forward unto eternal life and salvation in Christ?

1 John 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

This is why we who are in Christ can never lose our salvation. We can never be, un-reborn in him. Ours is not a salvation that is worked to achieve nor retain. It is eternal. Though and sadly there are those Denominations that teach salvation is not eternal and it can be lost. Very sad.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

1 John 2:29
If you know that He is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

James 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Salvation is of God is and guaranteed on Gods part, I think we all know that.
He is faithful.
We can not be forced out of his hand but we can let go of it.
Our faith in him and continued faith in him is required from the beginning to the end.

But being born again includes conception, formation and birth into the light.
That is a process that we know by experience in the context of Gods creation is not instantaneous.
A child must abide in the vine
until Christ is fully formed in them
Then they are born into the dawning of the light

The good seed is eternal in its nature, that being Gods seed.
Like any pregnancy the seed or sperm needs to be good (Check)
But the child must continue connected to the vine of the umbilical i order to receive life and be fully form and be able to be born.
That attachment to God through Christ is pictured in that vine or umbilical and our faith is the equivalent of abiding in the vine.
If we abide and since the seed is good the life that would result is guaranteed.


But the word is clear
If we abandon faith we will be cut off
If we endure to the end we will be saved.
If we abide in the vine we have life.
If we deny Him before men He will deny us before God.
If we continue in sin, its deceitfulness is likely to harden our hearts and cause us to fall away from faith

It is a good thing to be able to distinction where you really stand
Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God
Because if you find yourself on the outside while thinking you where in faith just because you know about God at least you can do something about it before it is too late.
For eternal life is not in knowing about God and saying you believe it.
Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only TRUE God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. - John 17:3

But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous - 1 John 3:5-7

So i would say sin is hazardous to our faith, which is precious in that by our faith we lay hold of Christ and through abiding in Christ the life of God flows to us and that seed grows in us until Christ is fully formed in us and born again.

 

[soggykitten]

Salvation is of God is and guaranteed on Gods part, I think we all know that.
He is faithful.
We can not be forced out of his hand but we can let go of it.
Our faith in him and continued faith in him is required from the beginning to the end.

But being born again includes conception, formation and birth into the light.
That is a process that we know by experience in the context of Gods creation is not instantaneous.
A child must abide in the vine
until Christ is fully formed in them
Then they are born into the dawning of the light

The good seed is eternal in its nature, that being Gods seed.
Like any pregnancy the seed or sperm needs to be good (Check)
But the child must continue connected to the vine of the umbilical i order to receive life and be fully form and be able to be born.
That attachment to God through Christ is pictured in that vine or umbilical and our faith is the equivalent of abiding in the vine.
If we abide and since the seed is good the life that would result is guaranteed.


But the word is clear
If we abandon faith we will be cut off
If we endure to the end we will be saved.
If we abide in the vine we have life.
If we deny Him before men He will deny us before God.
If we continue in sin, its deceitfulness is likely to harden our hearts and cause us to fall away from faith

It is a good thing to be able to distinction where you really stand
Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God
Because if you find yourself on the outside while thinking you where in faith just because you know about God at least you can do something about it before it is too late.
For eternal life is not in knowing about God and saying you believe it.
Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only TRUE God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. - John 17:3

But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous - 1 John 3:5-7

So i would say sin is hazardous to our faith, which is precious in that by our faith we lay hold of Christ and through abiding in Christ the life of God flows to us and that seed grows in us until Christ is fully formed in us and born again.

What you're espousing is the idea we have to work to stay saved. And if we fall away, turn from God for whatever reason, then we're returned to that state we were before we accepted Christ.
I don't agree sin is hazardous to our faith. All our sins were put under the blood of the lamb when we accepted Christ as our savior from our sins. And God remembers those sins no more. How is it then that we are still at risk as what we formerly were, sinners? When in Christ. God forgot our past sins when we repented of them and were saved. But now he's going to tally new ones against us?

How does someone become un-born? After they were reborn in Christ?

 

[Nehemiah6]

So i would say sin is hazardous to our faith...

Sin is hazardous to our fellowship (see 1 John 1). And those who are genuine children of God will hate sin (1 John 2). But Christians can and do sin, and God has provided an answer to that.

But it is not our faith that keeps us saved, since the Bible says that we are "kept by the power of God". The eternal security of the believer is fundamental to the Gospel.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Everyone sins. Some see it, some don’t.

“Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other:

for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭18:10-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Benadam]

“Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other:

for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭18:10-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is key if one doesn't want to go about removing splinters when a log is obstructing your vision.
I've been thinking that denying sin causes this and that's only kinda true. Jesus calls the person doing this a hypocrite. A hypocrite is someone is appearing to have virtue they don't have.

Hypocrite
noun
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.



A hypocrite is denying sin committed but what causes that? The desire to appear to have virtue that one does not have. @Lion222 That might be your answer.
I notice that Jesus was teaching that a student is never greater than their teacher right before going into the splinter/log in the eye parable. Also that the measure we hand out determines the measure we're given.

The answer is humility. If one is removing splinters to appear virtuous there is a log obstructing your view.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is key if one doesn't want to go about removing splinters when a log is obstructing your vision.
I've been thinking that denying sin causes this and that's only kinda true. Jesus calls the person doing this a hypocrite. A hypocrite is someone is appearing to have virtue they don't have.

Hypocrite
noun
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.



A hypocrite is denying sin committed but what causes that? The desire to appear to have virtue that one does not have. @Lion222 That might be your answer.
I notice that Jesus was teaching that a student is never greater than their teacher right before going into the splinter/log in the eye parable. Also that the measure we hand out determines the measure we're given.

The answer is humility. If one is removing splinters to appear virtuous there is a log obstructing your view.

yes I was only offering some scripture and bit of unwarranted advice to consider definitely was not an attack on lion222 obedience is important it’s just a matter of what did Jesus really teach and how did he tell us we will be judged ?

 

[EmethAlethia]

If your sin is like a log in the eye, then everywhere you look you would see log.

Then if you warn a sinner of their logs in order to help them remove it
do then not look at you and see you as guilty of the very same thing?

Do they end up trying to remove their log from your eye?

Who has experienced this in relationship?

At that time and in that experience did you know you where the logged one or the log free one or was everybody just logged up?

Did you learn that it is necessary to focus on our own sin removal first?
Or are you still going off on others sins half logged?

Once you have dealt with yours, will your tempts to help others always end up with them looking at you as the sinner and is that just the price you have to pay in order to help someone else get fee or is it a proportional thing?

In my past experience I remember a man i was seeing as so very wrong is so many things, but at the same time i kept seeing God show up when he did.
When i asked god why this is, the answer i got was "shut up and listen"
Because what i thought was right was wrong because of my sin, so i saw him as wrong even though he had the testimony of God working through his life.
Anybody else with such experiences in their pasts?

Context, context, context ... the Context is, before you judge anyone else BY THE STANDARD I AM ABOUT TO COMMAND YOU TO JUDGE EVERYONE ELSE BY, judge yourselves and make sure you do not fall short. Mat. 1-5 covers that warning. Vs. 6 is Jesus command to judge others based on their responses to what you share that is Holy ... your "pearls" vs. 7-12 gives the actual response we should have, continuously, as a habit and way of life keeping on seeking, knocking, ... and never stop and eventually you will find, have it opened, ... and in the parallel [passage in Luke, you will receive the Holy Spirit who is the pledge of your future inheritance. Then you have the many on the broad path that leads to destruction and the few on the narrow(Literally to groan it is so tight to squeeze through) path. The same many are discussed after the false prophets ... "Many will say to Me, Lord, Lord did we not ... and .... and .... and I will say, depart from Me ye who work iniquity for I never knew you. Of course, given the illustration, that would make maybe one out of a thousand who believe themselves to be Christians true Christians. Yet there is no one who believes they are Christians who believes they fall short. Interesting, right?

Everybody gets what they want if they do not love truth more than their beliefs.

2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2Th 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Th 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Rom. 1:18-32 covers the non-religious lost, Rom. 10:1-3 the religious non-Christian lost. The point being, everyone can gather what they need to hold fast to their beliefs as truth, and to prove all opposing beliefs false, and can interpret their "selected" data in the light of their beliefs, and everything else in the light of all of that, explaining away, discrediting, invalidating, ignoring ... anything that might seem to contradict, and can come up with other reasons for holding fast to their positions. A burning in the bosom, speaking in tongues, a statue of Mary coming to life, our church is the oldest, largest, has the most highly educated experts, we have been in this belief group for 23 generations ...

The point being, we harden ourselves into our beliefs, and God gives us over into what we want to believe. Pharaoh hardened his own heart first ... then God stepped in and finished the deal. The more you do of the things I just listed, the more your eyes and ears are closed to considering that your current beliefs are wrong, and that anything else might be true.