No 'But '
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L
he is confusing and conflating
you probably already have the correct understanding
he changes what he says and changes what others say and he is quite good at it
I might be alone here, but that's ok. most people know I am not a Calvinist nor a lordship salvation person or a works person
however, the NT is plain we do need to seek forgiveness even from others when we sin.
notice how he first accuses me of saying you can loose salvation and then he states I must be lordship salvation
very arrogant
you probably already have the correct understanding
he changes what he says and changes what others say and he is quite good at it
I might be alone here, but that's ok. most people know I am not a Calvinist nor a lordship salvation person or a works person
however, the NT is plain we do need to seek forgiveness even from others when we sin.
notice how he first accuses me of saying you can loose salvation and then he states I must be lordship salvation
very arrogant
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L
good to know . thanks
denying what is plainly written in scripture points to false teaching.
between this and those who say we do not have to take Jesus words in the gospels as applicable to anyone but Jews, we are seeing a new gospel being presented. and worse is to come.
and I agree with your observations regarding 'excuses' or what I would call 'twisting' what is said
denying what is plainly written in scripture points to false teaching.
between this and those who say we do not have to take Jesus words in the gospels as applicable to anyone but Jews, we are seeing a new gospel being presented. and worse is to come.
and I agree with your observations regarding 'excuses' or what I would call 'twisting' what is said
No doubt.
Unfortunately I think it's somewhat of a natural extension of certain threads from the reformation. The rejection of penance, the treasury of merit, plenary indulgences, the sacrifice of the mass, and other religious works through the declaration of "faith alone" has been distorted to mean that there is no right and wrong to which we are beholden. It's that same old heresy of "grace" without discipleship as if Jesus didn't call us to anything.
Unfortunately I think it's somewhat of a natural extension of certain threads from the reformation. The rejection of penance, the treasury of merit, plenary indulgences, the sacrifice of the mass, and other religious works through the declaration of "faith alone" has been distorted to mean that there is no right and wrong to which we are beholden. It's that same old heresy of "grace" without discipleship as if Jesus didn't call us to anything.
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I admit I'm surprised. Your remarks don't seem to indicate that.
I think the only trick at this point is when it is said, insisted in many respects, that works, good deeds, have absolutely nothing to do with our salvation. That's not true. God knows that's not true.
We're not saved by performing good deeds. That of course is a given. But good deeds, works, are part of our salvation. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10 (ESV)
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? James 2:14 (ESV)
I think the only trick at this point is when it is said, insisted in many respects, that works, good deeds, have absolutely nothing to do with our salvation. That's not true. God knows that's not true.
We're not saved by performing good deeds. That of course is a given. But good deeds, works, are part of our salvation. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10 (ESV)
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? James 2:14 (ESV)
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Hello throughfaith, why do you continue to move the goalposts in our discussions 
TULIP was ~not~ part of the topic in your OP, rather, the second half of the Luther/Calvin/Protestant statement, "we are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" was. Here is an excerpt from your OP again.
Here again you have singled out "Calvinism" as the lone confessor of what you believe to be a false doctrine, but the doctrine that you are complaining about, that "we are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone", is taught clearly 1. in the Bible, and therefore 2. by us all (IOW, by all of the churches and denominations that are found within the pale of orthodox Christendom).
As I said to you in another one of your threads, I believe that your fight is ~rarely~ against the "boogeyman" that you call Calvinism. RATHER, your fight is against the Bible (and thereby against what is taught by our churches, IOW, what is taught by Christianity, in general, NOT by Calvinism, in particular).
The ENTIRE Christian church/Christianity in general (Protestants/Catholics/Orthodox, etc.) teaches the 2nd half of that quote (that "the faith that justifies is never alone"), NOT Calvinism only.
This is the point that I have been attempting (and clearly failing) to make to you, not that there are no doctrines that are peculiar to Calvinism, but that many of the doctrines that ~you~ have argued against here at CChat, doctrines which you have also claimed to be the ~peculiar~ to Calvinism, are instead the ~common~ belief of Christianity (in general).
Finally, I'm not sure why you believe the word "practicing" causes a problem, so let's take a look. Here is the ESV, which chooses to use the word "practicing" (in 1 John 3), and KJV which does not. As best as I can tell, this comes down to nothing more than "take your pick", because both translations speak against the principle argument that you've had in most of your threads here since the get-go (concerning those who are justified by faith alone never being sanctified).
~Deut
p.s. - while it may be true that there is no "BUT" concerning God's "justification" of us (e.g. John 5:24), there is most definitely an "ALSO", because He "sanctifies" EVERYONE He justifies/saves .. Philippians 1:6, 2:12-13. In fact, He could not have made this fact clearer in the Bible when He told us (through the pen of the Apostle Paul), "This is the will of God, your sanctification......" ~1 Thessalonians 4:3.
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TULIP was ~not~ part of the topic in your OP, rather, the second half of the Luther/Calvin/Protestant statement, "we are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" was. Here is an excerpt from your OP again.Here again you have singled out "Calvinism" as the lone confessor of what you believe to be a false doctrine, but the doctrine that you are complaining about, that "we are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone", is taught clearly 1. in the Bible, and therefore 2. by us all (IOW, by all of the churches and denominations that are found within the pale of orthodox Christendom).
As I said to you in another one of your threads, I believe that your fight is ~rarely~ against the "boogeyman" that you call Calvinism. RATHER, your fight is against the Bible (and thereby against what is taught by our churches, IOW, what is taught by Christianity, in general, NOT by Calvinism, in particular).
The ENTIRE Christian church/Christianity in general (Protestants/Catholics/Orthodox, etc.) teaches the 2nd half of that quote (that "the faith that justifies is never alone"), NOT Calvinism only.
This is the point that I have been attempting (and clearly failing) to make to you, not that there are no doctrines that are peculiar to Calvinism, but that many of the doctrines that ~you~ have argued against here at CChat, doctrines which you have also claimed to be the ~peculiar~ to Calvinism, are instead the ~common~ belief of Christianity (in general).
Finally, I'm not sure why you believe the word "practicing" causes a problem, so let's take a look. Here is the ESV, which chooses to use the word "practicing" (in 1 John 3), and KJV which does not. As best as I can tell, this comes down to nothing more than "take your pick", because both translations speak against the principle argument that you've had in most of your threads here since the get-go (concerning those who are justified by faith alone never being sanctified).
1 John 3 ESV
10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
1 John 3 KJV
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
~Deut
p.s. - while it may be true that there is no "BUT" concerning God's "justification" of us (e.g. John 5:24), there is most definitely an "ALSO", because He "sanctifies" EVERYONE He justifies/saves .. Philippians 1:6, 2:12-13. In fact, He could not have made this fact clearer in the Bible when He told us (through the pen of the Apostle Paul), "This is the will of God, your sanctification......" ~1 Thessalonians 4:3.
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What do you think is the difference? James was the brother of Jesus. Do you think he didn't know what Jesus taught and meant in his teachings?
Easy believerism isn't scripture.
Hold faith, do nothing else. No good deeds, nothing.
There's a celebrity sperm donor who made news on the front page of my MSN homepage, which I changed to a different site after that appeared as a story today. He got his girlfriend pregnant and then they broke up. Oh, but he was there through the pregnancy.
How nice.
They picture this guy in the article, he's a rapper. Never heard of him but so what.
There he is looking into the camera while wearing a diamond necklace bearing a diamond encrusted cross.
He simply believes. Meanwhile, he has a child, just one?, out of wedlock. Oh, but he is wearing a cross so he must believe. But what of his deeds and what do those say of him?
If good deeds had not a thing to do with salvation, and to be clear again, that does not mean we work to gain salvation or keep it, there wouldn't be one mention of works, good deeds, as pertains to our salvation in God's words about salvation.
But there are.
Look, I don't intend nor expect to change the mind of the easy believer who objects to the idea of God setting good deeds before us so as to serve his kingdom. Those folk arrive at that idea for whatever reason and they'll answer to God in the end.
My point is to not let that idea go unaddressed when it is not scripture. That's the point.
I've seen some people who claim to be Christian whose behavior and language makes them appear as if they'd dedicated to winning top prize in the ahole of the year contest. Hateful, condescending, mocking, vulgar behavior and language.
And not surprisingly when engaging them in a discussion they say the same thing many we've encountered here do. Works has nothing to do with salvation. Good deeds has nothing to do whatever with our salvation.
They're wrong. And their behavior proves they believe what they say, and yet, they're wrong. Always have been always shall be.
Just as is Lordship Salvation teaching. Always has been wrong, always shall be wrong.
God picked who he'd save before he created the world....Consider Genesis through to the new testament.
What a load of bunk! But people live and die believing Lordship Salvation teaching is of the Lord. And of course, of course! They believe they were one of those God picked to save.
And then they are aghast when the converse is pointed out. That would mean God determined whom he'd send to damnation, hell, before he created anything at all.
Which blows "whosoever believeth in him", in John 3:16 out of the Bible. Has to, to be true. But it isn't true.
Just as all those scriptures that refer to good deeds, even in Revelation, prove those who teach good deeds have not a thing, nothing, to do with , are not part of, or related to, our salvation, prove easy believerism is wrong and unbiblical.
But to each their own.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink the living water.
Easy believerism isn't scripture.
Hold faith, do nothing else. No good deeds, nothing.
There's a celebrity sperm donor who made news on the front page of my MSN homepage, which I changed to a different site after that appeared as a story today. He got his girlfriend pregnant and then they broke up. Oh, but he was there through the pregnancy.
How nice.
They picture this guy in the article, he's a rapper. Never heard of him but so what.
There he is looking into the camera while wearing a diamond necklace bearing a diamond encrusted cross.
He simply believes. Meanwhile, he has a child, just one?, out of wedlock. Oh, but he is wearing a cross so he must believe. But what of his deeds and what do those say of him?
If good deeds had not a thing to do with salvation, and to be clear again, that does not mean we work to gain salvation or keep it, there wouldn't be one mention of works, good deeds, as pertains to our salvation in God's words about salvation.
But there are.
Look, I don't intend nor expect to change the mind of the easy believer who objects to the idea of God setting good deeds before us so as to serve his kingdom. Those folk arrive at that idea for whatever reason and they'll answer to God in the end.
My point is to not let that idea go unaddressed when it is not scripture. That's the point.
I've seen some people who claim to be Christian whose behavior and language makes them appear as if they'd dedicated to winning top prize in the ahole of the year contest. Hateful, condescending, mocking, vulgar behavior and language.
And not surprisingly when engaging them in a discussion they say the same thing many we've encountered here do. Works has nothing to do with salvation. Good deeds has nothing to do whatever with our salvation.
They're wrong. And their behavior proves they believe what they say, and yet, they're wrong. Always have been always shall be.
Just as is Lordship Salvation teaching. Always has been wrong, always shall be wrong.
God picked who he'd save before he created the world....Consider Genesis through to the new testament.
What a load of bunk! But people live and die believing Lordship Salvation teaching is of the Lord. And of course, of course! They believe they were one of those God picked to save.
And then they are aghast when the converse is pointed out. That would mean God determined whom he'd send to damnation, hell, before he created anything at all.
Which blows "whosoever believeth in him", in John 3:16 out of the Bible. Has to, to be true. But it isn't true.
Just as all those scriptures that refer to good deeds, even in Revelation, prove those who teach good deeds have not a thing, nothing, to do with , are not part of, or related to, our salvation, prove easy believerism is wrong and unbiblical.
But to each their own.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink the living water.
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And?
Never heard of greasy grace but there is such a thing as easy believerism. Yes, it is a derogatory term and yet those who think all they need do is believe in Jesus and they're saved, and can continue in their living any old way they wish, like that rapper I mentioned, are an example of it. I believe. That's it. I can drink, make babies with countless women, pay their support or not,do drugs, be the lover in adulterous women's lives, etc... and I'm saved!
No, no they're not.
It's funny too because they commit to those acts and bad deeds and think they're an example of a Christian. Some because they're wearing a diamond encrusted cross. You know, like the one Jesus was crucified on? Meanwhile, people debate and think good deeds have nothing to do with being a Christian.
Never heard of greasy grace but there is such a thing as easy believerism. Yes, it is a derogatory term and yet those who think all they need do is believe in Jesus and they're saved, and can continue in their living any old way they wish, like that rapper I mentioned, are an example of it. I believe. That's it. I can drink, make babies with countless women, pay their support or not,do drugs, be the lover in adulterous women's lives, etc... and I'm saved!
No, no they're not.
It's funny too because they commit to those acts and bad deeds and think they're an example of a Christian. Some because they're wearing a diamond encrusted cross. You know, like the one Jesus was crucified on? Meanwhile, people debate and think good deeds have nothing to do with being a Christian.
E
David did a lot of bad deeds and the Church of Corinth was far from a stellar example of the righteous life.... having said that there is only one Gospel and one correct response that brings the gift of eternal life...and the gift has no strings attached...but there is chastisement and many "shoulds" but love is not compulsive.
For it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of God
For it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of God
L
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right
the pendulum swung too far in one direction then swung the other way with the same results
sounds like hyper grace being presented here IMO
right
the pendulum swung too far in one direction then swung the other way with the same results
sounds like hyper grace being presented here IMO
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L
Hello throughfaith, why do you continue to move the goalposts in our discussions TULIP was ~not~ part of the topic in your OP, rather, the second half of the Luther/Calvin/Protestant statement, "we are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" was. Here is an excerpt from your OP again.
Here again you have singled out "Calvinism" as the lone confessor of what you believe to be a false doctrine, but the doctrine that you are complaining about, that "we are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone", is taught clearly 1. in the Bible, and therefore 2. by us all (IOW, by all of the churches and denominations that are found within the pale of orthodox Christendom).
As I said to you in another one of your threads, I believe that your fight is ~rarely~ against the "boogeyman" that you call Calvinism. RATHER, your fight is against the Bible (and thereby against what is taught by our churches, IOW, what is taught by Christianity, in general, NOT by Calvinism, in particular).
TULIP was ~not~ part of the topic in your OP, rather, the second half of the Luther/Calvin/Protestant statement, "we are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" was. Here is an excerpt from your OP again.Here again you have singled out "Calvinism" as the lone confessor of what you believe to be a false doctrine, but the doctrine that you are complaining about, that "we are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone", is taught clearly 1. in the Bible, and therefore 2. by us all (IOW, by all of the churches and denominations that are found within the pale of orthodox Christendom).
As I said to you in another one of your threads, I believe that your fight is ~rarely~ against the "boogeyman" that you call Calvinism. RATHER, your fight is against the Bible (and thereby against what is taught by our churches, IOW, what is taught by Christianity, in general, NOT by Calvinism, in particular).
agreed. you put it better than I did in the past when trying to post in response to what he writes. the twisting is subtle but then glaring when you really see it. don't blame your communication. it's not you
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