If both parents of a child are not saved will that child (who is unclean and not holy) go in the Rapture?
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No. "Sanctified" is not the same as "born again". Sanctified is to be made holy by process, or to be given a special positon because of fulfilling some conditions. In three scriptures dealing with the Rapture, the Rapture that saves Christians from the Great Tribulation is a REWARD. They are:
Philippians 3:14; "I press toward the GOAL for the PRIZE of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus."
Luke 21:36; "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
Revelation 3:10; "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth."
Added to this, the Book that deals with the Rapture, namely 1st Thessalonians in Chapter 4, is written to an exemplary Church. See Chapter 1 and 3.
Philippians 3:10-14 deals with the same two themes of 1st Thessalonians 4:14-17 - Resurrection and Rapture. Some translations use the concept of Philippians 3:14 as the "High Calling". It is correctly translated by the New King James. The Greek shows a directional movement when a call is made. It does not decribe our calling.
Luke 21 first deals with AD 70. But in verse 25 a change of context takes place. It is "the coming of the Son of Man" (v.27). As in many prophecies, a gap is evident. The verses from 25 onward speak of the events surrounding the Second Coming and the Tribulation that will discomfort men and the earth. "To stand before the Son of Man" must be in the clouds, for Matthew 24:29-30 shows Christ only coming to earth "After the Tribulation of those days".
Revelation 3:10 speaks of a time of Tribulation over the whole world. There are only two judgements over the whole world up until the Second Coming of Christ - Noah's flood and the Great Tribulation. The grammar of Revelation 3:10 is NOT, "keep you IN the hour of trial ... ." It is "keep you FROM the hour of trial ... ." If the trial is in on the "whole earth", then to be kept FROM it means that you must be somewhere else. And there are only two places a man can be other than the earth - Hades under the earth if one is dead, or, in the air.
Here are four scriptures, in context of the Great Tribulation, where ONLY those WORTHY will be caught away from the Tribulation on earth.
Philippians 3:14; "I press toward the GOAL for the PRIZE of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus."
Luke 21:36; "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
Revelation 3:10; "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth."
Added to this, the Book that deals with the Rapture, namely 1st Thessalonians in Chapter 4, is written to an exemplary Church. See Chapter 1 and 3.
Philippians 3:10-14 deals with the same two themes of 1st Thessalonians 4:14-17 - Resurrection and Rapture. Some translations use the concept of Philippians 3:14 as the "High Calling". It is correctly translated by the New King James. The Greek shows a directional movement when a call is made. It does not decribe our calling.
Luke 21 first deals with AD 70. But in verse 25 a change of context takes place. It is "the coming of the Son of Man" (v.27). As in many prophecies, a gap is evident. The verses from 25 onward speak of the events surrounding the Second Coming and the Tribulation that will discomfort men and the earth. "To stand before the Son of Man" must be in the clouds, for Matthew 24:29-30 shows Christ only coming to earth "After the Tribulation of those days".
Revelation 3:10 speaks of a time of Tribulation over the whole world. There are only two judgements over the whole world up until the Second Coming of Christ - Noah's flood and the Great Tribulation. The grammar of Revelation 3:10 is NOT, "keep you IN the hour of trial ... ." It is "keep you FROM the hour of trial ... ." If the trial is in on the "whole earth", then to be kept FROM it means that you must be somewhere else. And there are only two places a man can be other than the earth - Hades under the earth if one is dead, or, in the air.
Here are four scriptures, in context of the Great Tribulation, where ONLY those WORTHY will be caught away from the Tribulation on earth.
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Why would I work so hard to imply or infer a child is doomed.
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(14) The unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife.--Any scruple which a Christian might have felt as to whether matrimonial union with an unbeliever would be defiling is here removed, and the purity of the former teaching justified. In contrast to that other union in which the connection is defiling (1Corinthians 6:16), the purity of the believing partner in this union, being a lawful one, as it were, entirely overweighs the impurity of the unbeliever, it being not a moral, but a kind of ceremonial impurity. The children of such marriages were considered to be Christian children; and the fruit being holy, so must we regard as holy the tree from which it springs. It must be remembered that the "sanctification" and "holiness" here spoken of is not that inward sanctification which springs from the action of the Holy Spirit in the individual heart, but that consecration which arises from being in the body of Christ, which is the Christian Church (Romans 9:16.)
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(14) The unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife.--Any scruple which a Christian might have felt as to whether matrimonial union with an unbeliever would be defiling is here removed, and the purity of the former teaching justified. In contrast to that other union in which the connection is defiling (1Corinthians 6:16), the purity of the believing partner in this union, being a lawful one, as it were, entirely overweighs the impurity of the unbeliever, it being not a moral, but a kind of ceremonial impurity. The children of such marriages were considered to be Christian children; and the fruit being holy, so must we regard as holy the tree from which it springs. It must be remembered that the "sanctification" and "holiness" here spoken of is not that inward sanctification which springs from the action of the Holy Spirit in the individual heart, but that consecration which arises from being in the body of Christ, which is the Christian Church (Romans 9:16.)
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Ellicott has some good points, and others can be contended with. But I would like to, within the context of the OP, comment of your statement above. I do not say it is correct or incorrect, but it is worth some consideration. The Christians that are alive at the dawn of the Great Tribulation are divided into two groups - (i) The Overcomers, and (ii) The "remainder" - 'who have the testimony of Jesus Christ', but who remain on earth (Rev.12:17). I have dealt with the "Overcomers" in my posting # 2. Let us consider those who remain.
In at least four places in Revelation we have believers on earth during the Beast's reign.
If Christians "are doomed" to pass through the Great Tribulation, on what basis will their children be treated differently? And if the person in Judaeah who sees the Abomination of Desolation obeys the Lord and flees forthwith, why would it be a "woe" if one had a baby with? (Matt.24:19). Are children going to be safe when the severity of the Great Tribulation is applied to their parents? Were the children of Abraham safe at Moses' time from Pharaoh? Or were the children of Bethlehem under two years safe? Or were the children of Christians throughout the last 1,900 years safe during the most vicious of persecutions like Nero's, or the Inquisition?
In at least four places in Revelation we have believers on earth during the Beast's reign.
- In Revelation 12:17, as mentioned above, we have a "remainder" of men and women who (i) have the testimony of Jesus Christ, but are not "caught away" to the throne and who must flee to a wilderness for the duration of the Great Tribulation
- In Revelation 7:9-17 we have a Company of mankind who are obviously attached to Jesus Christ. But their garments were dirty and had to be washed. It says clearly in verse 14 that they came through, or out of, the Great Tribulation
- In Revelation 13:7 we find that, as Daniel predicted, the Beast makes war with the saints and overcomes them. This could not happen if they, like the overcomers, were in the clouds away from the earth - the sphere of the Beast's power
- In Revelation 18 we are presented with the Commercial Babylon - the world trade system at the end of the age. In verse 4 we discover that "God's People" are in it. The call is that they should leave immediately. But it would seem from the tense of verse 2 that the Great Babylon's destruction is accomplished. This would be at the end of the Great Tribulation as Chapter 13 shows a Mark issued by which a man can trade. That is, at the issue of the Mark would occur at the beginning of the 42 months and Babylon the Great would function during this time - with "My people" in it.
If Christians "are doomed" to pass through the Great Tribulation, on what basis will their children be treated differently? And if the person in Judaeah who sees the Abomination of Desolation obeys the Lord and flees forthwith, why would it be a "woe" if one had a baby with? (Matt.24:19). Are children going to be safe when the severity of the Great Tribulation is applied to their parents? Were the children of Abraham safe at Moses' time from Pharaoh? Or were the children of Bethlehem under two years safe? Or were the children of Christians throughout the last 1,900 years safe during the most vicious of persecutions like Nero's, or the Inquisition?
I don't think children are held accountable for the sins of their parents.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
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Sanctified is to be set apart. Those under the hearing of the word of God . . Hebrew gives an example of those were set apart made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,. but did not believe God not seen. . demanding another demonstration crucifying' Christ again and again every time they walk away . If not for the bible the one source of Christian faith, the children would remain unclean not redeemed
The unbelieving one in that marriage in that verse does not mean the unbeliever is holy before God in Christ. Influence...so until the child can make a personal decision. One way to say it .. the believing partner exerted a holy sanctifying influence on the whole family. This did not mean that each family member automatically had a personal relationship with Christ. .. a holy influence.
Each of us at some point have to make that personal choice. Me personally.. I am going to leave this in my Fathers hands not man.
Each of us at some point have to make that personal choice. Me personally.. I am going to leave this in my Fathers hands not man.
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The futurist view requires Jesus to ce back to earth at least 3 more times.
I don't think so, when you think about what Jesus said in Mathew 24. The two people busy about things one remains and one taken away is in context with Noah. In the same text it says the ones not saved were taken away, so the taken away are taken away in judgement, killed at the return of Christ. Then the millennial reign is here on earth, while Satan is bound, and then the war when Satan is released, and the judgement of those who fall for satanic treachery, and make war with Christ, then the union between heaven and earth. We remain here. The only rapture is that we go out to meet Jesus upon his return and follow his return to earth where he sets up his kingdom here. There is no secret wisking away to Heaven.
I don't think so, when you think about what Jesus said in Mathew 24. The two people busy about things one remains and one taken away is in context with Noah. In the same text it says the ones not saved were taken away, so the taken away are taken away in judgement, killed at the return of Christ. Then the millennial reign is here on earth, while Satan is bound, and then the war when Satan is released, and the judgement of those who fall for satanic treachery, and make war with Christ, then the union between heaven and earth. We remain here. The only rapture is that we go out to meet Jesus upon his return and follow his return to earth where he sets up his kingdom here. There is no secret wisking away to Heaven.
Although I differ in some detail, for the intents of this thread I agree (so that we don't get sidetracked defending small bunkers). We then agree that whatever their state, they are Christians and Jews. A Christian is one who was born of the Holy Spirit, and a Jew is one who is born of the lineage of Jacob. The Christian is sanctified POSITIONALLY by the Work of Christ, and the Jew is the other Party of a Covenant made by God with an oath. Whatever their DISPOSITION is (their attitude, dilgence, faithfulness, slothfulness and/or sinfulness), they are special People before God because of Christ's Work and God's Oath. If they must pass through the Great Tribulation, then their children pass through with them ... or not?
That was the question at hand.
That was the question at hand.