Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Birth"

[NazariteNation]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

This is not what trinitarians believe even though trinitarian believe God are three entities or persons ect... they do believe Jesus to be God or a portion of God ect...They also believe the Holy Spirit to be God as well.

G12 does not seem to be oneness or trinitarian. Maybe some type of Arianism?

In the beginning was the Word. And the was with God and the Word was God. Jesus is the word made flesh. The only begotten Son of God. An extension of God yet separate from God. Jesus had a will of His own for Jesus said what I do is not My will but the will of the Father who sent me.

Was Jesus once a part of God? Yes. Was Jesus sent here by God? Yes. Was Jesus equal to God? Yes. However, Jesus sacrificed it all so that He could come to this earth as a human, to show us - through example - a lifestyle pleasing to the Father, and to ultimately pay the price so that we may be forgiven of our iniquities. When you really think about it, Jesus sacrificed to get here (in birth), He sacrificed while He was here (in life), And made the ultimate sacrifice in death... all of which made Him worthy of resurrection. For their is no greater love than to lay down one's life for hid friends.

If you only two words to describe Jesus, they would have to be "LOVE" and "SACRIFICE". I know a lot of folks struggle with the trinity, especially with Jesus' humanity. However, make no mistake Jesus was just as human as you are I. That's what makes Jesus' so worthy to be praised and why God shares His throne with Jesus as we speak.

That's my take on Jesus anyways...

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

I believe they are not all one...i don't know if thats what you think i believe or not Lol, cause I got on the wrong side before, I believe that Jesus is the son of God, not God...the Holy spirit is actually the Holy spirit a seperate being, not God. and God is Actually creator ruler and king.

Sounds like a trinitarian to me *lol*

This is not what trinitarians believe even though trinitarian believe God are three entities or persons ect... they do believe Jesus to be God or a portion of God ect...They also believe the Holy Spirit to be God as well.

G12 does not seem to be oneness or trinitarian. Maybe some type of Arianism?

In the beginning was the Word. And the was with God and the Word was God. Jesus is the word made flesh. The only begotten Son of God. An extension of God yet separate from God. Jesus had a will of His own for Jesus said what I do is not My will but the will of the Father who sent me.

Was Jesus once a part of God? Yes. Was Jesus sent here by God? Yes. Was Jesus equal to God? Yes. However, Jesus sacrificed it all so that He could come to this earth as a human, to show us - through example - a lifestyle pleasing to the Father, and to ultimately pay the price so that we may be forgiven of our iniquities. When you really think about it, Jesus sacrificed to get here (in birth), He sacrificed while He was here (in life), And made the ultimate sacrifice in death... all of which made Him worthy of resurrection. For their is no greater love than to lay down one's life for hid friends.

If you only two words to describe Jesus, they would have to be "LOVE" and "SACRIFICE". I know a lot of folks struggle with the trinity, especially with Jesus' humanity. However, make no mistake Jesus was just as human as you are I. That's what makes Jesus' so worthy to be praised and why God shares His throne with Jesus as we speak.

That's my take on Jesus anyways...

NN, I agree with your last statement in its entirety, however that does not change the fact that what G12 is explaining is not the doctrine of the Trinity, but some sort of Arianism.

 

[NazariteNation]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

NN, I agree with your last statement in its entirety, however that does not change the fact that what G12 is explaining is not the doctrine of the Trinity, but some sort of Arianism.

It's cool Onwings, just wanted to provide a trinitarian description of the person of Christ so that others can compare in order to see if indeed their beliefs line up with a trinitarian perspective.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

It's cool Onwings, just wanted to provide a trinitarian description of the person of Christ so that others can compare in order to see if indeed their beliefs line up with a trinitarian perspective.

The odd thing is I agree with the description you say is the trinitarian view of Jesus, but I am not a trinitarian. Sooo where would that leave us?

 

[RoboOp]

Jesus is indeed God Almighty, the Creator

I believe they are not all one...i don't know if thats what you think i believe or not Lol, cause I got on the wrong side before, I believe that Jesus is the son of God, not God...the Holy spirit is actually the Holy spirit a seperate being, not God. and God is Actually creator ruler and king.

Jesus is the Son of God, but He is also God Almighty, the Creator. See John 1 and John 8 and Hebrews 1.

John 1:

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

John 8:

58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Hebrews 1:

1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
5For to which of the angels did God ever say,
"You are my Son;
today I have become your Father[a]"[b]? Or again,
"I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son"[c]? 6And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
"Let all God's angels worship him."[d] 7In speaking of the angels he says,
"He makes his angels winds,
his servants flames of fire."[e] 8But about the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy."[f] 10He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end."[g] 13To which of the angels did God ever say,
"Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet"[h]? 14Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

True, he didn't walk around proclaiming Himself as God (very much) while here on earth [though he dropped enough hints, such as the "before Abraham was, I AM!" proclamation, which the Jews perfectly understood as the name of God (as well as claiming to be eternal), which is why they tried to stone him]. Anyway the reason he didn't walk around with a sign "I am God" is simply because that was not His purpose (at that time). His purpose at that time was to become one of us, to reach down to us and relate to us and show us his love (by finally dying for us on the cross).

Philippians 3

6Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death — even death on a cross!

RoboOp

 

[pagie]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

why some believe Jesus is a man (witch we believe) and the son of God (witch we believe ) but not God, the arguments they make are 1 were did Jesus spacificly say he was God, 2 if Jesus was God in the flesh without sin nature how was he tempted, 3 how can he be on earth and be the father in heaven at once, 4 if jesus was God how did he pray to the father did he pray to himself,
1 there are verses wich Jesus claims things that are non transfeable qualitles of God, not that he came and said I am God but by his words he bight of well have done so though the gospels werent writen by Jesus but by his deciples so the question is who did they say Jesus claimed to be, here are a few. (a) worship is a non-transfeable quality of God ( God alone can be worshiped,)
( Exodus 20:1-4 and God spoke all these words who brought you out of Egypt out of the land of slavery, you shall have no other Gods before me you shall not make yourselves an idol in the form of anything from heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.)
(see also Deut 5:6-8 )
(b) Jesus accepted worship even angels who had men bow to them refuted worship and told them to worship God alone (Rev 22:8-9) but there are acounts when Jesus was worshiped and it was not refuted, to think these men being Jews would write such a thing in there day unless they claimed themselves he was God, (Matt 14:33 then those who were in the boat worshiped him saying truly you are the son of God.)
(john 9:37-38 jesus said "you have now seen him infact he is the one speaking with you" Then the man said "Lord I believe" and he worshiped him)
All the deciples worshiped him (Matt 28:16-17 Then the eleven deciples went to Galilee to the mountin were Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him they worshiped him ;but some doubted)
Jesus claims of himself titles of God witch are non-transferable titles
God says (I AM) (Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses "I AM WHO I AM. this is what you are to say to the Israelites 'I AM has sent me to you)
(Isa 43:10, you are my witnises declares the Lord and my servant whom I have chosen so that you may know and believe me that I am he)
(Isa 43:11, I even I am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior)
Jesus says (I AM) (john 8:58-59 "I tell you the truth' Jesus answered "before Abraham was born I am" at this they picked up stones to stone him but Jesus hid himself sliping away into the grounds) (John 18:4-6, Jesus knowing all that was going to happen to him went out and aked them "who is it you want ?" Jesus of Nazareth they replied " I am he" Jesus replied, and judas the traitor was standing there with them, When Jesus said "I am he" they drew back and fell to the ground.)
God is the giver of life Gen 2:7 Deut32:39 1 Sam 2:6 Jesus is the giver of life John 5:21 John 10:28 John 11:25
God forgiver of Sins Exodus 34:6-7, Neh 9:17 Dan 9:9 Jesus forgiver of Sins Mark 2:1-12 Act:26:18 Col 2:13
God Omnipresent Psa 139:7-8 Prov 15:3 Jesus Omnipresent Matt 18:20 Matt 28:20
God Omniscient 1 Kings 8:39 Jer 17:9-10 Jer 17:16 Jesus Omniscient Matt 11:27 Luke 5:4-6 John 2:25, John 16:30 John 21:17 Act1:24
God Omnipotent Isa 40:10-31, Isa 45:5-13, 18 Jesus Omnipotent Matt 28:18 Mark 1:29-34, John 10:18
God preexistant Gen 1:1 Jesus preexistant John 1:15-30, John 3:13, John 3:31-32 John 6:62 John 16:28 John 17:5
God is eternal Psa 102:26-27 Hab 3:6 Jesus is eternal Isa 9:6, Mic 5:2, John 8:58
God is immutable Num 23:19 Jesus is immutable Heb 13:8

In looking at these non-transferable qualities that can only be used for God himself the logical explanation would be Jesus is God, these qualities give more evidence then the questions asked give (were did Jesus spercificly say he was God, how was Jesus tempted in the wilderness if he was God, if Jesus was God how did he pray to the father was he praying to himself, how is Jesus any diferent from Adam since adams life was given by God breathing the spirit into him) though there are explanations to these questions, and here is my question, why dont the overwelming evidances convince those who dont believe?

 

[NazariteNation]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

In looking at these non-transferable qualities that can only be used for God himself the logical explanation would be Jesus is God, these qualities give more evidence then the questions asked give (were did Jesus spercificly say he was God, how was Jesus tempted in the wilderness if he was God, if Jesus was God how did he pray to the father was he praying to himself, how is Jesus any diferent from Adam since adams life was given by God breathing the spirit into him) though there are explanations to these questions, and here is my question, why dont the overwelming evidances convince those who dont believe?

I don't have a problem at all accepting that Jesus was God. However, for every scripture you find where Jesus accepts entitlement, there is also scripture where Jesus declares individuality. Could be that Jesus was 100% God and 100% man, at the same time?

I personally believe that we can not fully begin to comprehend, appreciate, or operate in the Holy Spirit until we begin to understand the humanity of Jesus Christ. In fact, the biblical mandate for believers to pursue "Christ-likeness" as well as our ability to "Walk in the Spirit" actually hangs in this delicate balance.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that both can be achieved once we are able to discern the person and attributes of Christ from the person and attributes of the Holy Spirit (seeing as both are of God however, each has His own distinctive role to fill).

One could go into greater detail however, I don't feel lead by the Spirit to do so. It is my hope and prayer however, that someone grabs a hold of this and begins to not only seek out the scriptures for him or herself but also asks the Holy Spirit for wisdom and guidance conscerning this issue. Without personal revelation from the Lord, I seriously doubt that someone could wrap their mind around this one. (It has revolutionized my joy and my faith!)

I truly believe that not only will your love for the Lord and appreciation for his many sacrifices (in birth, in life, and the ressurection) greatly intensify, but also your personal walk with the Holy Spirit will become much more intimate and fulfilling as your understanding of how "we must decrease so that He can increase" begins to take root in your life and you begin to operate not only in the Fruits of the Spirit but also the Gifts of the Spirit as well.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

I don't have a problem at all accepting that Jesus was God. However, for every scripture you find where Jesus accepts entitlement, there is also scripture where Jesus declares individuality. Could be that Jesus was 100% God and 100% man, at the same time?

I personally believe that we can not fully begin to comprehend, appreciate, or operate in the Holy Spirit until we begin to understand the humanity of Jesus Christ. In fact, the biblical mandate for believers to pursue "Christ-likeness" as well as our ability to "Walk in the Spirit" actually hangs in this delicate balance.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that both can be achieved once we are able to discern the person and attributes of Christ from the person and attributes of the Holy Spirit (seeing as both are of God however, each has His own distinctive role to fill).

One could go into greater detail however, I don't feel lead by the Spirit to do so. It is my hope and prayer however, that someone grabs a hold of this and begins to not only seek out the scriptures for him or herself but also asks the Holy Spirit for wisdom and guidance conscerning this issue. Without personal revelation from the Lord, I seriously doubt that someone could wrap their mind around this one. (It has revolutionized my joy and my faith!)

I truly believe that not only will your love for the Lord and appreciation for his many sacrifices (in birth, in life, and the ressurection) greatly intensify, but also your personal walk with the Holy Spirit will become much more intimate and fulfilling as your understanding of how "we must decrease so that He can increase" begins to take root in your life and you begin to operate not only in the Fruits of the Spirit but also the Gifts of the Spirit as well.

God post NN, understanding the duality of Christ is the key that unlocks are understanding of God, Christ, and Jesus.

 

[jerrywlo]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

Can anyone tell me how can immortal God die? It sounds like an absurd to me. Did Jesus clame to be God? I find it not. Jesus was a son of God on two counts:

1. The word of God came to him
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Jesus quoted this verse in replay to Jews when they charged him with blesphemy after caling himself son of God:
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

2. Jesus was conceived in a supernatural way, so he was of man as well as of God.
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

This is the first account of Jesu' begining. He had no life in himself, but was given by God who had life in Himself:Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself

 

[jerrywlo]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

Consider this. Immortal God becomes a king on David's throne: Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David. Should this be promotion or a great demotion for God? Definitely demotion, I think.

Does Jesus have God?
1Co 11:3...the head of Christ is God.

Is God of Jesus the same God as our God?
Joh 20:17...I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

What is the future for Jesus? 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. It is subjection to God.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

Consider this. Immortal God becomes a king on David's throne: Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David. Should this be promotion or a great demotion for God? Definitely demotion, I think.

Does Jesus have God?
1Co 11:3...the head of Christ is God.

Is God of Jesus the same God as our God?
Joh 20:17...I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

What is the future for Jesus? 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. It is subjection to God.

You certainly seem to have it all figured out jerrywlo, but what about when in John 20:28 Thomas calls Jesus his God or when in John chapter 1 says the word was God and the word that was God became flesh, or in 1st Timothy 3:16 Where it says God was manifest in the flesh or in Philippians 2:6-7 where it says before Jesus became a man He was in the form of God. Do you just see the verses that agree with your position and ignore the scripture that disprove your theory?

 

[NoahsDad]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

Do you believe Jesus appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Birth"?

I do believe that Jesus was God in the flesh ,And have seen many chapters in the Old testament that I feel witness to this belief.
I recon im what some would call oneness belief cuz I believe in 1 God and not 3 seperate but equal intities.BUT THIS IS MY Thaughts according to my studies and understanding I have recieved.

 

[NoahsDad]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

oh and I also believe that Jesus was revieled in Geneses to Abraham as the king of Salem

 

[Josh]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

I believe for sure God appered to people in flesh before christ was born. The issue of Jacob was one. Abraham sitting at the oaks of Mamre was another and to note when Abraham saw them he ran Gen 3:18 "And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:" he addressed one man not all. Shows he recognized the Lord out of them three angels.
Then Malchisedek in Hebrews 7, says this man who met Abraham had no mother, no father, no begining of days or Ending of days.This was not an Angel coz all Angels were created making them have begining of their days.
Then in St John 8:58 Jesus answered the Pharisees " Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." same reference God gave to Moses when He met him in the burning bush.

I believe God is one and His name is Jesus Christ. Father, son and Holy Ghost are just His office that He works Thru".
Father - God above us. When He was with Israel.
Son - God with us. In the days of Jesus
Holy Ghost - God in us. St John 14:17 -20

[Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
JOHN 14:18
18

 

[next_step]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

Is it called the Angel of the LORD in english? A messenger of god who could be worshiped.(he appeared to Gideon for example) I conclude (with many others) that we have Jesus Christ here, the allmighty God.

 

[Charles]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

Jesus appeared to Abraham. Speaking of God in the flesh, if Jesus the man is God then why doesn't he know the day the Lord is coming. I thought from scrip. that only God knows? Is what people believe is that he doesn't know what himself knows?

 

[Knightjester]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

Why there are two questions?
Anyway,..

No!
I do not believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Birth"


Yes!
I do believe Jesus appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Birth" [John 1:1]

 

[Charles]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

How can the Son of God be God if God did creat him to be his image as scripture states? God cre ated another God? There is only one God.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

How can the Son of God be God if God did creat him to be his image as scripture states? God cre ated another God? There is only one God.

God became a man, God did not create Jesus He became Jesus.

 

[NazariteNation]

Re: Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Bi

These forums are a trip. *lol* The cool part is that, regardless if we agree, disagree, or agree to disagree the truth of the matter is, after reading Isaiah 55: 8 & 9, in this life that which we know, that which we think we know, and even that which we may never know... all of it combined can not even begin to fathom the Glory of God in His Fullness!