Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?

[Jackson123]

Catholics don't worship the pope. We honor him because we believe each pope is part of what we calls the apostolic succession, an unbroken line back to Peter.

Also, we don't worship Mary. We have a 'devotion' to her that is greater than our devotion to any of the other saints of the Church. we worship and give adoration only to God. Please do not tell me I have been brainwashed. That's a little judgmental. God bless.

This is one of catholic prayer

Dear Mother Mary,
we entrust to Your Immaculate Heart of hearts,
our family and our entire future.
Lead us all to our homeland which is Heaven. Amen.
Immaculate Heart of Mary,
pray for us.

1 do you believe mary able to hear billion people pray to her
2. Do you entrust your family and entire future to mary?

 

[Athanasius377]

Also after I read a lot of article where popes promote one world government I believe this religion work for lucifer.

One world government is satanic government as discribe in rev 13.

Ccc is official catholic belief. And I believe this ccc is a tool to embrace Islam.
I don't believe Christian promote lucifer government.

Friend, you need to stay away from the conspiracy theories. If Rome was attempting to create a one world government why are they so terrible at achieving this end? Their churches are emptying out at record pace and once staunchly catholic counties have re-paganized. Look at Ireland, Spain, etc. The true man of lawlessness will be far more effective that what modern Rome has done. I saw a stat that said something like 1 in four "none", meaning no religious affiliation is a former RCC. Most former RCC's are not converting to true Biblical christianity but are simply leaving and becoming one of the "none"s. What does that tell you? It tells you that Rome is imploding in fantastic fashion and that all those conspiracy theories are just bunk.

 

[CS1]

I would say that creeds like the Trinity are in denial of Sola Scriptura.
Strangely enough Sola Scriptura is in denial of Sola Scriptura itself being an extra biblical creed held to rather then the written word of God.

The debate during the creation of the trinity was that is was not the word of God itself being used and that was wrong, they did not want to get away from the word. But they could not use scripture to condemn their enemies teachings with success so they did it anyway. Truth be said they should have just left them to God but Rome and the emperor was behind it all.
The orthodox got a concession their number to great to oppress and their own version of the trinity (bet most did not know that) and most everyone else ended up exiled or dead till it was reversed in the power struggle then the other side was exiled and killed and then reversed again. It is all just one shameful godless stain on the behavior of the so called Church that was nothing like Christ.

It all just says one things to me. When someone is arrogant enough to think the word of God is insufficient sin and shame, division and persecution soon follow. Those who want to teach the doctrines (Creeds) of men as the word of God (or greater then) their religion is worthless. At least that is what the BIBLE says.

the Trinity Concept is Biblical, to suggest otherwise is error. There are many things in the Word of God that do not say the word but the concepts are very much there. The Godhead is in the bible. the word Christophany is not in the bible however, this is clearly seen in the Old Testament. Then to talk about arrogance is like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Lion222]

the Trinity Concept is Biblical, to suggest otherwise is error. There are many things in the Word of God that do not say the word but the concepts are very much there. The Godhead is in the bible. the word Christophany is not in the bible however, this is clearly seen in the Old Testament. Then to talk about arrogance is like the pot calling the kettle black.

The bible is biblical, to suggest it is insufficient or in need of additional man made doctrines to explain it is error.
When you switch to something else explaining the bible that you must believe in, that something else becomes the authority.
Now if Trinity was like Christophany it would just be a word and behind that word would be the scripture itself.
Even the authors of the Trinity DOCTRINE expressed concern over this.
But since they could not refute the opposition with the word of God itself they made their own words.
Always an error whatever you intentions are.
Such errors are why we had and still need Reformation.
The reaffirming of the word of God over any and all doctrines of men no matter how suspiciously biblical they report to be.

Why would I teach the trinity as the word of God, a doctrine made by men and have my religion become worthless?
The bible warns us against this.
I will just teach the word of God as the authority on every matter including the relationship between God who is a Father and His first born Son and like fathers and sons have a Spiritual life/nature they share as do we who are also His children according to the Holy Spirit by which He is our Father and God.

 

[Jackson123]

Friend, you need to stay away from the conspiracy theories. If Rome was attempting to create a one world government why are they so terrible at achieving this end? Their churches are emptying out at record pace and once staunchly catholic counties have re-paganized. Look at Ireland, Spain, etc. The true man of lawlessness will be far more effective that what modern Rome has done. I saw a stat that said something like 1 in four "none", meaning no religious affiliation is a former RCC. Most former RCC's are not converting to true Biblical christianity but are simply leaving and becoming one of the "none"s. What does that tell you? It tells you that Rome is imploding in fantastic fashion and that all those conspiracy theories are just bunk.

Empty church not a problem as long as not empty money

Quote
What is rumored is that these three men rule all the governments of the nations through the Black Pope’s perfected international intelligence community directed by the Jesuits from Rome through London and Washington, D.C/New York. All central banks are ruled by the agents of these men through the Knights of Malta and other Catholic organizations. There is nothing outside of their immediate temporal power, i.e., the power ruling the governments of all nations today.

https://educationcenter2000.com/Art..._and_Controls_Military_Industrial_Complex.htm

 

[CS1]

The bible is biblical, to suggest it is insufficient or in need of additional man made doctrines to explain it is error.
When you switch to something else explaining the bible that you must believe in, that something else becomes the authority.
Now if Trinity was like Christophany it would just be a word and behind that word would be the scripture itself.
Even the authors of the Trinity DOCTRINE expressed concern over this.
But since they could not refute the opposition with the word of God itself they made their own words.
Always an error whatever you intentions are.
Such errors are why we had and still need Reformation.
The reaffirming of the word of God over any and all doctrines of men no matter how suspiciously biblical they report to be.

Why would I teach the trinity as the word of God, a doctrine made by men and have my religion become worthless?
The bible warns us against this.
I will just teach the word of God as the authority on every matter including the relationship between God who is a Father and His first born Son and like fathers and sons have a Spiritual life/nature they share as do we who are also His children according to the Holy Spirit by which He is our Father and God.

No one has suggested the Bible is insufficient nor is the trinity a man-made Concept it comes from the bible which is hypercritical to attack doctrine when you use doctrine, Doctrine means teaching that comes from the word of God. The Godhead is in the word of God the Nature of God is unlimited and human intellect can't fully comprehend HIS Full Nature. YOu contradict yourself also.

"if Trinity was like Christophany it would just be a word and behind that word would be the scripture itself."

The Godhead is in the word of God. The appearance of The Spirit of Christ is known as a " Christophany " which we see in the word of God that this Being has received 1. worship 2. Called Lord 3. do only what God can do. The word Christophany is not a term in the word of God it is a concept.

No different than the word trinity YOU HAVE A BIAS AGAINST.

In the Gospel of John when Jesus was Baptized we see Jesus the one being baptized the Holy Spirit that John bore record to Ascended in the form of a dove and remained on Jesus and a voice from heaven saying this is my Beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. If the trinity is a man-made concept so is Chrisphonany. You are limited in fully understanding the full nature of God, as we all are.

There is no error only your human reasoning and opinion. When we approach the Divine Nature of God we are to do so humbly and reverently. You do not just speak commonly of the One true God who has revealed Himself as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.


The word " Trinity" = tri-unity of the One true God revealed in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit which all are in the Bible. You are in error.

 

[Dino246]

Catholics don't worship the pope. We honor him because we believe each pope is part of what we calls the apostolic succession, an unbroken line back to Peter.

Also, we don't worship Mary. We have a 'devotion' to her that is greater than our devotion to any of the other saints of the Church. we worship and give adoration only to God. Please do not tell me I have been brainwashed. That's a little judgmental. God bless.

To the bolded part...

I'm curious: what word would you use for someone who has been systematically and intentionally led to believe things that are not true? Deceived? Deluded? Hoodwinked, perhaps? Is there any word that could be applied appropriately here that you would not consider "judgmental"?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

The obvious answer is that there was no 'Catholic' doctrine in the beginning.
The church in Rome was the apostle Paul's home for awhile .....until the government martyred him.
From Rome, Paul wrote his letter TO THE ROMANS, which should be the basis for every believer's doctrinal truths.
Unfortunately the RCC does not like Paul's teaching very much.

 

[Athanasius377]

Empty church not a problem as long as not empty money

Quote
What is rumored is that these three men rule all the governments of the nations through the Black Pope’s perfected international intelligence community directed by the Jesuits from Rome through London and Washington, D.C/New York. All central banks are ruled by the agents of these men through the Knights of Malta and other Catholic organizations. There is nothing outside of their immediate temporal power, i.e., the power ruling the governments of all nations today.

https://educationcenter2000.com/Art..._and_Controls_Military_Industrial_Complex.htm

This lady is has clearly had some sort of psychotic break. These are not the ramblings of a sane individual. We need to pray for her and not indulge her fantasies. Think critically for a moment. When does she ever give evidence that can ever be independently verified? She doesn't. You need to believe her because she says so. She worked as an attorney for the World Bank. So what? She claims to be head council. Where can I find filings that speak to this? Court filings would be public record. What exactly did she do, research case law or did she litigate? We aren't told. I am a financial analyst, and I have a pretty sound grasp of how money works even in international markets.. Some of what she says is true but out of context but then builds upon that foundation to create an edifice that no one can verify exists or not. This is usually how you know you are dealing with a crackpot conspiracy theory. Furthermore, when the person makes an assertion, the burden of proof lies with them, not the person who questions said theory. To do so is called Shifting the burden and is a logical error because it almost always forces the questioner to prove a negative.

 

[Jackson123]

This lady is has clearly had some sort of psychotic break. These are not the ramblings of a sane individual. We need to pray for her and not indulge her fantasies. Think critically for a moment. When does she ever give evidence that can ever be independently verified? She doesn't. You need to believe her because she says so. She worked as an attorney for the World Bank. So what? She claims to be head council. Where can I find filings that speak to this? Court filings would be public record. What exactly did she do, research case law or did she litigate? We aren't told. I am a financial analyst, and I have a pretty sound grasp of how money works even in international markets.. Some of what she says is true but out of context but then builds upon that foundation to create an edifice that no one can verify exists or not. This is usually how you know you are dealing with a crackpot conspiracy theory. Furthermore, when the person makes an assertion, the burden of proof lies with them, not the person who questions said theory. To do so is called Shifting the burden and is a logical error because it almost always forces the questioner to prove a negative.

There is a link about who own

http://www.city-data.com/forum/economics/2320626-who-owns-federal-reserve.html

It give a clue why us federal tax go to Vatican.

Another clue

Quote

The Federal Reserve Board (FRB) is the governing body of the Federal Reserve System, America's central bank.
The FRB is an independent non-governmental agency in charge of conducting monetary policy through open market operations or setting interest rates.

End quote

Non government agency.

I was think fed belong to government.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/1913-federal-reserve-act.asp

 

[Athanasius377]

I am partly joking, but then again no.
You do know what Sola Scriptura means right?
scripture alone.
Creeds are not scripture.
For example in scripture
jesus says "The father is greater then I"
Jesus directly refutes equality, yet because of the confusion of the trinity many people say they are equal.
While the bible is sufficient in its own right to convey the truth.

Creeds distill the truth of scripture into smaller statements of faith and were often used in the early as a test for orthodoxy. The creed has a derivative authority from scripture not apart from scripture.

Lets plug that quote from John 14:28-31 (ESV)
28 You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place you may believe. 30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me, 31 but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go from here.
So what is going on here? Cf John 1:1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
cf John 10:25-30
I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

So is John talking out both sides of his mouth? Did he suddenly get confused whilst putting chapter 14 to papyri? Or, is John being consistent in his doctrine? Because while there is clearly equality in the Trinity in substance the Three Persons have different economic distinctions. So for example God the Father purposes, God the Son Accomplishes and God the Holy Spirit Applies. Recall that the Apostles experienced God as Trinity though they did not use the term. That does not mean the term is not accurate. Without this understanding it makes large swaths of the NT unintelligible, For example:
Col 2:8–10 (ESV)
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
or this:

Php 2:5–1
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I affirm the word of God, how about you?
It statement regarding the context of creation as the greater context for us to understand Gods nature and his word.
The trinity and other creeds are just men reject God chosen way to communicate His truth.
IN the case of the Trinity they could not refute their opposition just using scripture so they in their inability to handle the word of God took it on themselves to make up their own doctrine and teach it as if it was the word of God.
Now my bible says that those who do that, their religion is worthless.
So rather the questions someone do they believe the bible when it says xyz.
People say to you believe the trinity as a replacement for the above question as if it could replace the word of God.

Of course, I affirm the entire word of God. Question. Do belong to a church?

IF you go by Gods word the relationship between the Father and Son and Holy Spirit goes like this:
A Father God being just like any other father because that is why God made fathers.
A Son of God being just like any other son because that is why God made sons.
The Spirit has what makes Fathers what they are and is where sons come from and what makes them like their fathers.
In the physical that would be sperm (which has a life of its own) which carries ones DNA basically ones physical nature.
now we as Children of God are brother and sisters of our brother and Lord and Gods first born Jesus the Christ.
We are conceived by the seed of God AKA the Holy Spirit.
How great a salvation.
Behold what manner of love the father has given unto us...

The real problem with the trinity is that is stops at three.
Where Fathers can have many sons and daughters
Still the lord over the house is always the first born, biblical speaking. which would be Christ Jesus.

So in your theology God the Holy Spirit is God the Father's Super Sperm?

 

[Athanasius377]

There is a link about who own

http://www.city-data.com/forum/economics/2320626-who-owns-federal-reserve.html

It give a clue why us federal tax go to Vatican.

Another clue

Quote

The Federal Reserve Board (FRB) is the governing body of the Federal Reserve System, America's central bank.
The FRB is an independent non-governmental agency in charge of conducting monetary policy through open market operations or setting interest rates.

End quote

Non government agency.

I was think fed belong to government.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/1913-federal-reserve-act.asp

Yes, I know what the fed is. But the point is that one making the assertions has an obligation to prove what they are saying and this lady does not even make an attempt. Everything is so because she said so. I'll say it again this stuff is bunk and a waste of time. While there is a member in this very forum who teaches that God the Holy Spirit is God the Father's super sperm and no one calls him out on it.

 

[Jackson123]

Yes, I know what the fed is. But the point is that one making the assertions has an obligation to prove what they are saying and this lady does not even make an attempt. Everything is so because she said so. I'll say it again this stuff is bunk and a waste of time. While there is a member in this very forum who teaches that God the Holy Spirit is God the Father's super sperm and no one calls him out on it.

It seem fed belong to Vatican ( from those link)
That is what I read from some article

Fed print money, loan it to us government and tax payer pay the interest.
So it is understandable federal tax go to Vatican as interest.

Quote

Did Woodrow Wilson regret signing the Federal Reserve Act?

I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.

End quote

https://www.kennethballard.com/?p=4743

We have hundreds of article as a clue to that direction, it lead me to believe, Vatican use money to promote one world government, the antichrist government as describe at rev 13. Nothing we can do, it will success, because it prophecies in the Bible, the only we can do is pray that the Lord give us strength not to take the mark of that beast when the time come.

In my country catholic organized Christian and Muslim joint worship in the church.
Is that preparation for one world religion, to support one world government?
I believe so.

 

[Athanasius377]

It seem fed belong to Vatican ( from those link)
That is what I read from some article

Fed print money, loan it to us government and tax payer pay the interest.
So it is understandable federal tax go to Vatican as interest.

Quote

Did Woodrow Wilson regret signing the Federal Reserve Act?

I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.

End quote

https://www.kennethballard.com/?p=4743

We have hundreds of article as a clue to that direction, it lead me to believe, Vatican use money to promote one world government, the antichrist government as describe at rev 13. Nothing we can do, it will success, because it prophecies in the Bible, the only we can do is pray that the Lord give us strength not to take the mark of that beast when the time come.

In my country catholic organized Christian and Muslim joint worship in the church.
Is that preparation for one world religion, to support one world government?
I believe so.

Brother, I have serious concerns about fiat currency and I personally would love it if congress were to order an audit of the federal reserve. Two things, first of RCC has shown such incompetence in dealing with the sex abuse scandal to the point were entire dioceses are going belly up then how in the world are they also employing a whole army of assassin bankers? To be fair things have improved on the scandal here in the states to a large degree but still not enough. Even other RCCs would agree. Just saying.

Second, what’s more important to avoid, going broke or going to hell? That same person I described was wanting to hold Bible studies with other unsuspecting members. My day job is to keep the former from happening. My Christian duty is to the later. That’s my point.
God bless,
A.

 

[Jackson123]

Brother, I have serious concerns about fiat currency and I personally would love it if congress were to order an audit of the federal reserve. Two things, first of RCC has shown such incompetence in dealing with the sex abuse scandal to the point were entire dioceses are going belly up then how in the world are they also employing a whole army of assassin bankers? To be fair things have improved on the scandal here in the states to a large degree but still not enough. Even other RCCs would agree. Just saying.

It seem sex scandal and bank scandal not against each other. The same source that is lucifer.

And I believe vatican make money to gain power, one world government.

This what Thomas Jefferson say.

https://oll.libertyfund.org/quotes/187

The system of banking we have both equally and ever reprobated. I contemplate it as a blot left in all our constitutions, which, if not covered, will end in their destruction, which is already hit by the gamblers in corruption, and is sweeping away in its progress the fortunes and morals of our citizens. Funding I consider as limited, rightfully, to a redemption of the debt within the lives of a majority of the generation contracting it; every generation coming equally, by the laws of the Creator of the world, to the free possession of the earth he made for their subsistence, unincumbered by their predecessors, who, like them, were but tenants for life… And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.

To me it is serious problem, use Christianity to cover up the real goal. The real goal is one world government, the lucifer government.

 

[Athanasius377]

It seem sex scandal and bank scandal not against each other. The same source that is lucifer.

And I believe vatican make money to gain power, one world government.

This what Thomas Jefferson say.

https://oll.libertyfund.org/quotes/187

The system of banking we have both equally and ever reprobated. I contemplate it as a blot left in all our constitutions, which, if not covered, will end in their destruction, which is already hit by the gamblers in corruption, and is sweeping away in its progress the fortunes and morals of our citizens. Funding I consider as limited, rightfully, to a redemption of the debt within the lives of a majority of the generation contracting it; every generation coming equally, by the laws of the Creator of the world, to the free possession of the earth he made for their subsistence, unincumbered by their predecessors, who, like them, were but tenants for life… And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.

To me it is serious problem, use Christianity to cover up the real goal. The real goal is one world government, the lucifer government.

I’m going to tell you again it’s bunk. Want proof? Watch the grilling of Amy Comey Barrett confirmation hearings to be on the Supreme Court. If what you say is true why all the opposition? I can tell you why. She is Christian and RCC and we both are pro life. Watch the vitriol that will come her way and ask yourself if she’s part of some nefarious plot to rule the world. There really is such a plot but it isn’t the Jesuits and it really is driven by Satan. But she nor her co religionists are part of this plot. Just watch the hearings and tell me if the proceedings are a Jesuit plot.

 

[Jackson123]

I’m going to tell you again it’s bunk. Want proof? Watch the grilling of Amy Comey Barrett confirmation hearings to be on the Supreme Court. If what you say is true why all the opposition? I can tell you why. She is Christian and RCC and we both are pro life. Watch the vitriol that will come her way and ask yourself if she’s part of some nefarious plot to rule the world. There really is such a plot but it isn’t the Jesuits and it really is driven by Satan. But she nor her co religionists are part of this plot. Just watch the hearings and tell me if the proceedings are a Jesuit plot.

Amy Barrett is catholic and anti abortion like most catholic, what is the correlation between her and proof that the fed not own by Vatican?
Do you believe the fact that Amy Barrett catholic and anti abortion proof Vatican not own the fed?

 

[Jackson123]

Watch the vitriol that will come her way and ask yourself if she’s part of some nefarious plot to rule the world. There really is such a plot but it isn’t the Jesuits and it really is driven by Satan. But she nor her co religionists are part of this plot. Just watch the hearings and tell me if the proceedings are a Jesuit plot.

Are you try to say Jesuit not part of one world government?


https://www.churchmilitant.com/news...to-protestantize-church-using-regional-synods

I have been read hundreds similar article for the last 20 years

 

[Athanasius377]

Are you try to say Jesuit not part of one world government?


https://www.churchmilitant.com/news...to-protestantize-church-using-regional-synods

I have been read hundreds similar article for the last 20 years

Correct. And what Burke is talking about is an administrative state where countries are bound by treaties and the like. Not even close to a one world government. Besides, look around you. The world is growing further apart not closer together. Brexit, was just the first shot across the bow. Others are likely to follow due to the EU's crushing debt. In the US we are at each other's throats constantly. I will likely live long enough to see the US split apart. If there is such a push then the Jesuits have to be the most incompetent schemers in history.

 

[Jackson123]

Correct. And what Burke is talking about is an administrative state where countries are bound by treaties and the like. Not even close to a one world government. Besides, look around you. The world is growing further apart not closer together. Brexit, was just the first shot across the bow. Others are likely to follow due to the EU's crushing debt. In the US we are at each other's throats constantly. I will likely live long enough to see the US split apart. If there is such a push then the Jesuits have to be the most incompetent schemers in history.

So you don't believe the Fed belong to Vatican, or you don't believe there will be one world government.