The devil’s attitude towards the commandments of God

[Godcares]

I have been reading posts about the issue of obedience of the commandments of God from CC members for the past few months. Some say we are saved by grace only and do not need to keep the commandments because they are done away with and others say that Christians still need to keep them even if they are saved.

I decided re-read the New Testament regarding the issue and one of the issues that stood out for me in the bible regarding the commandments of God, is the devil’s attitude towards them.

1 John 3:8 says that the devil sinned from the beginning and therefore was the first being to break the commandments of God. In Revelation 12:17 it says that the dragon (devil) attacks those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
There is also Revelation 14:12 that says “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”

From these verses, it is reasonable to conclude that the devil hates God’s commandments and hates those who keep them. The devil attacks Christians who fulfil 3 requirements. The first is that they keep the commandments of God and second they have the faith of Jesus Christ and third have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
It does not say that he attacks those who have the faith of Jesus Christ only.
What we learn from revelation is that the faith of Jesus Christ (Saved by grace through faith and justification by faith) is just as important as keeping the commandments of God. Notice that Revelation mentions the keeping of the commandments twice in these two bible verses. And these verses are in line with James 2:17 that says, Faith without works is dead.

We need to question whether we are on the right path if we are in agreement with the devil who is opposed to the keeping of the commandments of God.
We also need to consider that God is just and fair to all his creatures. If he kicked the devil out of heaven for sinning (disobeying the commandments), and says that it is fine for us to disobey them, then the devil needs to be allowed back into heaven!

Also if it not necessary to obey the commandments after we are saved, then why does the devil keep tempting us to sin, if it does not matter if we disobey? It does not make sense.

 

[NotmebutHim]

Paul told the Christians in the church in Corinth that they were still carnal and thus he couldn't teach them deeper spiritual things from the Word. Paul never said that they were of the devil (on the basis that they weren't as obedient to Christ as they should have been).

Also, the Jewish leaders during the time of Jesus thought they were right with God by keeping the Law (not to mention the numerous regulations they had added to it). Yet Jesus told them plainly that the devil was their spiritual father (cf. John 8).

 

[Godcares]

Paul told the Christians in the church in Corinth that they were still carnal and thus he couldn't teach them deeper spiritual things from the Word. Paul never said that they were of the devil (on the basis that they weren't as obedient to Christ as they should have been).

Also, the Jewish leaders during the time of Jesus thought they were right with God by keeping the Law (not to mention the numerous regulations they had added to it). Yet Jesus told them plainly that the devil was their spiritual father (cf. John 8).

Hello Notmebuthim

You are twisting my words. I did not say that those who do not keep the commandments are of the devil. In my post, I was stating that the devil is against the keeping of the commandments and he attacks those who keep them. Since the devil is our enemy and is against keeping the commandments of God, then Christians should be for keeping the commandments of God. Christians should have the opposite attitude that the devil has in every subject and should not agree with him.

And the Apostle Paul was for the keeping of the commandments of God:

• Romans 6:15 - What then? Shall we sin (break the commandments) because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
• Romans 3:31 - Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
• Romans 7:12 – Wherefore the law is holy and commandment holy and just and good.

In John 8:40-45, Jesus says that the devil was the father of the Jewish leaders because they desired to behave like the devil. They wanted to kill Jesus and Jesus says in John 8:44 that the devil was a murderer from the beginning. He also says that the devil is a liar and that those who do not believe the truth or believe Jesus’ or God’s word like the Jewish leaders are siding with the devil, the father of lies.
So in John chapter 8, Jesus is accusing the Jewish leaders of breaking the commandments (specifically breaking commandments 6 and 9). He is exposing their hypocrisy. They say that they are commandment-keepers, but their actions show that they are commandment-breakers.

 

[Magenta]

You are twisting my words.

NMBH simply made statements, none of which twisted your words.

I did not say that those who do not keep the commandments are of the devil.

He did not say you did.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Paul told the Christians in the church in Corinth that they were still carnal and thus he couldn't teach them deeper spiritual things from the Word. Paul never said that they were of the devil (on the basis that they weren't as obedient to Christ as they should have been).

There is nothing in the OP about people being "of the devil". There is something about being "in agreement" with the devil. And the OP has made a good point.

Also, the Jewish leaders during the time of Jesus thought they were right with God by keeping the Law (not to mention the numerous regulations they had added to it). Yet Jesus told them plainly that the devil was their spiritual father (cf. John 8).

This is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT issue. There were many Jews who believed that they could be saved by doing the "works of the Law" or "the deeds of the Law". But the Bible makes it clear that no one is justified by that.

The issue in the OP is obedience to God and Christ. Paul makes it quite clear that the Law of Love is in fact an expression of keeping the commandments ("fulfilling of the Law").

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the Law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law. (Rom 13:8-10)

 

[Corban]

I have been reading posts about the issue of obedience of the commandments of God from CC members for the past few months. Some say we are saved by grace only and do not need to keep the commandments because they are done away with and others say that Christians still need to keep them even if they are saved.

I decided re-read the New Testament regarding the issue and one of the issues that stood out for me in the bible regarding the commandments of God, is the devil’s attitude towards them.

1 John 3:8 says that the devil sinned from the beginning and therefore was the first being to break the commandments of God. In Revelation 12:17 it says that the dragon (devil) attacks those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
There is also Revelation 14:12 that says “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”

From these verses, it is reasonable to conclude that the devil hates God’s commandments and hates those who keep them. The devil attacks Christians who fulfil 3 requirements. The first is that they keep the commandments of God and second they have the faith of Jesus Christ and third have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
It does not say that he attacks those who have the faith of Jesus Christ only.
What we learn from revelation is that the faith of Jesus Christ (Saved by grace through faith and justification by faith) is just as important as keeping the commandments of God. Notice that Revelation mentions the keeping of the commandments twice in these two bible verses. And these verses are in line with James 2:17 that says, Faith without works is dead.

We need to question whether we are on the right path if we are in agreement with the devil who is opposed to the keeping of the commandments of God.
We also need to consider that God is just and fair to all his creatures. If he kicked the devil out of heaven for sinning (disobeying the commandments), and says that it is fine for us to disobey them, then the devil needs to be allowed back into heaven!

Also if it not necessary to obey the commandments after we are saved, then why does the devil keep tempting us to sin, if it does not matter if we disobey? It does not make sense.

In contemporary Christian circles, the Bible has been summarized down to just a few Chapters. A Christian in any given local Church is fed on the summary, and although the great truths of Bible are to be found in the good Bible Colleges, they do not seem to filter down to the average Christian. The "summary", by virtue of its brevity, cannot possibly deal with all aspects of God's dealings with men from Adam to now. But if we were to take an eagles view of the whole vista of the Bible, it emerges that God deals differently with different men to achive His councils. Let's take just one example. Romans 2:12; "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law."

It is at once obvious that the Gentiles will be judged (and perish) without the Judge accusing them of breaking the Law, but that an Israeli will be judged by the Law (and perish under its curses). This diverse standard is because one Party ignores God, and God had little to do with them, but the other Party entered into Covenant with God. And God does not take Covenants lightly. King Saul's family were all, but one, wiped out because they broke a Covenant made in Joshua's time with the Jebusites. Now if God deals differently with these tow parties, is it such a shock when a third Party is introduced and God deals differently with them? In Ephesians 2:15 we learn that God created a third Company of men called, "the New Man" out of the TWO Parties above - Israel and the Gentiles. And in the same sentence we learn that the Law, in ALL it applications, was nailed with Christ to death and abolished on the cross - FOR THIS NEW MAN ONLY. On earth today, and also in the closing years of this age, there will be THREE Companies of men, EACH with a special dealing with by God. They are;

1. The Nations, or Gentiles born of Adam and separated at Babylon
2. The Nation of Israel, born of Jacob and given the Covenants, one of which is Law
3. The New Man, commonly called "the Church", born of the Holy Spirit, and subject to the indwelling Holy Spirit

Now, however strong our sense of perceived justice is, and whatever men with their "Bill of Rights" would like to have, God as sovereign Maker and Owner of these three peoples, has, for the display of His glory, decided on this diverse dealing. That is, just as any one of us, buying a car, can choose the color. We pay, we own, and we decide. So also the Sovereign and ALL-Mighty God, So, when we come to the closing Book of the Bible, and the Book's name is "Apokalypsis", which means, "the REVEALING" (of Jesus Christ), we will find these three peoples and God's different fate for them.

1. In Chapter 1 we have the heavenly and current view of CHRIST at the end of the age. He is obviously not "Gentle Jesus, meek and mild". He is a Master of His Church in a very DISSATISFIED state. "Brass" in parable means judgment, and our Lord Jesus, with feet of brass, walks among His Churches. Five are rebuked and only one is complimented. The predicted apostasy has come to pass.
2. In Chapters 2 and 3 we learn of the abominable state of the CHURCH. The last Church has our Lord outside their door. You do not need to be a Rocket scientist to know what the fate of the majority of Christians living at the end of the age will be. And truly, it is ominous that the Church is never mentioned again in Revelation after Chapter 3.
3. In Chapter 4 to 10 we have Christ's coronation in heaven and His immediate opening of the planned WRATH of God upon men in general - the NATIONS.
4. In Chapter 11 we have a specific set of events concerning ISRAEL. What have they done??? They have built a Temple in Jerusalem and allowed a Gentile king to occupy the place that God should have occupied. This is the most crass breaking of the Law since the unfair trial of their Messiah 2,000 years before.

So, it becomes clear in Chapters 12 and 13 and 14, why we find a Company of men having "the Testimony of Jesus Christ". The apostate Church has been left to their own devices and must pass through the Great Tribulation on earth.

Equally understandable is why we find a Company of men who, "keep the commandments of God". In Deuteronomy 30:1-5, God lays forth the requirement for the recovery of Israel after their diaspora. It is, they must keep the Law. But Romans 9 and 11 say that only a REMNANT will do it. And so we find a representative number of them in Revelation 7:1-8 - Israelites.

And then we have the misery of men in general, the nations, who must sit through the 42 months of God's WRATH. They will seek death and not find it - the Nations

 

[Runningman]

1 John 5:6-12
6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

 

[lenna]

I have been reading posts about the issue of obedience of the commandments of God from CC members for the past few months. Some say we are saved by grace only and do not need to keep the commandments because they are done away with and others say that Christians still need to keep them even if they are saved.

well you better do some more reading, because you do not have the understanding that confirms your ability to render a conclusion

there is a vast difference between saying we can sin away and keeping the commandments do not save us...and that is actually what is being said

no one is thumbing their nose at God's law, we agree rather, that Christ bore our sins on the cross and FULFILLED the law, even as the word states. the law was but a shadow of the real thing...ie Christ's death and resurrection

this keeping the law debate is ignoring the fact that no one can keep the law other than the One who made it in the first place

Also if it not necessary to obey the commandments after we are saved, then why does the devil keep tempting us to sin, if it does not matter if we disobey? It does not make sense.

seriously? no one advocates murder, adultery, stealing from your neighbor or any other of the 10. shall we just go ahead and enter back into a system that was given to the Jews and keep all 613?

I think you need a serious study of the New Testament and better comprehension of what people are actually saying here

 

[lenna]

In contemporary Christian circles, the Bible has been summarized down to just a few Chapters. A Christian in any given local Church is fed on the summary, and although the great truths of Bible are to be found in the good Bible Colleges, they do not seem to filter down to the average Christian.

right

good that you are so well informed about EVERY SINGLE CHURCH THERE IS

 

[BenjaminN]

It would be wise to go through all God's 613 (mitzvot) commandments, and discern what is applicable to yourself as an individual (for example if you are not a priest, those are not applicable to you, if you are not a man, those are not applicable to you, if you are not a woman, those are not applicable to you):

http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

They are not onerous, most are common sense and tried to be kept by Christians following Jesus in the faith, in which Jesus showed the way by keeping God's 613 commandments. Some of them relates to a God governed covenant entity with a temple in place, which is not currently physically in existence, and can not be obeyed at this time, but in a time to come (as prophesied to come in Ezekiel 37 - 48).

 

[Corban]

right

good that you are so well informed about EVERY SINGLE CHURCH THERE IS

I hear you. I was too general. There are Local Assemblies out there that teach the whole word of God.

 

[lenna]

I hear you. I was too general. There are Local Assemblies out there that teach the whole word of God.

Thank you!

 

[lenna]

It would be wise to go through all God's 613 (mitzvot) commandments, and discern what is applicable to yourself as an individual (for example if you are not a priest, those are not applicable to you, if you are not a man, those are not applicable to you, if you are not a woman, those are not applicable to you):

http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

They are not onerous, most are common sense and tried to be kept by Christians following Jesus in the faith, in which Jesus showed the way by keeping God's 613 commandments. Some of them relates to a God governed covenant entity with a temple in place, which is not currently physically in existence, and can not be obeyed at this time, but in a time to come (as prophesied to come in Ezekiel 37 - 48).

so why did Jesus die?

and please do not come back with I condone sin

 

[pottersclay]

I have been reading posts about the issue of obedience of the commandments of God from CC members for the past few months. Some say we are saved by grace only and do not need to keep the commandments because they are done away with and others say that Christians still need to keep them even if they are saved.

I decided re-read the New Testament regarding the issue and one of the issues that stood out for me in the bible regarding the commandments of God, is the devil’s attitude towards them.

1 John 3:8 says that the devil sinned from the beginning and therefore was the first being to break the commandments of God. In Revelation 12:17 it says that the dragon (devil) attacks those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
There is also Revelation 14:12 that says “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”

From these verses, it is reasonable to conclude that the devil hates God’s commandments and hates those who keep them. The devil attacks Christians who fulfil 3 requirements. The first is that they keep the commandments of God and second they have the faith of Jesus Christ and third have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
It does not say that he attacks those who have the faith of Jesus Christ only.
What we learn from revelation is that the faith of Jesus Christ (Saved by grace through faith and justification by faith) is just as important as keeping the commandments of God. Notice that Revelation mentions the keeping of the commandments twice in these two bible verses. And these verses are in line with James 2:17 that says, Faith without works is dead.

We need to question whether we are on the right path if we are in agreement with the devil who is opposed to the keeping of the commandments of God.
We also need to consider that God is just and fair to all his creatures. If he kicked the devil out of heaven for sinning (disobeying the commandments), and says that it is fine for us to disobey them, then the devil needs to be allowed back into heaven!

Also if it not necessary to obey the commandments after we are saved, then why does the devil keep tempting us to sin, if it does not matter if we disobey? It does not make sense.

Well said....to live a pure life and a holy life are what we are called to do.
The law of God cannot save this we know but without the law we are lawless. Lawlessness is chaos.
How shall we know if we are living in sin without the law?
Jesus showed that the law is spiritual as well as carnal.
Can one say that because he had not taken the life of his brother in which he hates he is not a murderer.
Can a faithful spouse say that after praying to other god's they are not a adulterer? Or if they find lustful attraction to another?
The law exposes our weaknesses and only by confession, prayer, and God's forgiveness can we over come.
Transparency is what's needed between man and God. Issues of the heart, lust of the mind and eyes are the battle ground .

 

[BenjaminN]

so why did Jesus die?

and please do not come back with I condone sin

I think you are asking a question for which you know the answer.

 

[Runningman]

Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

 

[BenjaminN]

Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

2 Peter 3 (ESV)

15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.

 

[oyster67]

Matthew
22:34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
22:35 Then one of them, [which was] a lawyer, asked [him a question], tempting him, and saying,
22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?
22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

When we walk with the Lord, it is more like a relationship than a religion. The Holy Spirit guides those who are quiet and humble enough to listen. The fruits of the Spirit and good works are produced through us, not by us. His sheep know His voice and follow wherever He leads day by day.

 

[lenna]

so why did Jesus die?

and please do not come back with I condone sin

and you are evading answering since you appear to know the simple answer

I am asking what is with your picking and choosing from the 613 laws and regulations?

It would be wise to go through all God's 613 (mitzvot) commandments, and discern what is applicable to yourself as an individual (for example if you are not a priest, those are not applicable to you, if you are not a man, those are not applicable to you, if you are not a woman, those are not applicable to you):

where in the NT do we find directions to follow your advice here?

I think you understood me right from the start, that's what I think

keeping some of the law and not all of it, was never the purpose of the law

check out Galatians and maybe Romans too

 

[lenna]

The fruits of the Spirit and good works are produced through us, not by us

so misunderstood by so many, resulting in all sorts of arguments, but you present the simple gospel truth right here