The devil’s attitude towards the commandments of God

[GraceAndTruth]

No, Satan is not omnipresent only God is. However, you make a very interesting point there. Satan asked permission to sift Job. Would that mean Satan is permitted by God to tempt all people?

What then of those scriptures, that of 2nd Corinthians 2, 1 Thessalonians 3, and others that speak of the tempter as relates to the Christian?

No, I do not think Satan is permitted to tempt people without God's permission. I do not believe he can do ANYTHING without God's permission.

The created is ever under the control of the Creator.

Without Omnipresence he has no ability to busy himself with individual temptations.
I make the point of his not being omnipresent because that really says it all.....he has no ability to act apart from his abilities because he is fiinite. Bound to one place at a time. He is physically positioned in the universe. I can't say it better than that.

I feel like I am saying the same thing over and over again without adding any more edification to anyone.
My core beliefs have a lot to do with this; when God is sovereign then anything is possible and the whole world is for HIS purpose.

 

[BenjaminN]

Binyan


Binyamin....there is no point in trying to continue. It is pointless. But I understand clearly. I just wanted you to know that someone does understand. Have a great week! (Just note: The Torah was given to Israel, never the nations, so regardless Non Jews never and will never have to worry about the 'laws' nor 'master understanding their inner meanings'.) Have faith, do good works because of our salvation, just like Avraham Avinu.

Christians like Paul and Jesus' disciples were Jews of the sect of the Nazarenes, and many more of scattered and adopted covenant Israel, are to this day among the gentiles of the world. Jesus / Yeshua came to gather into one the children of God, throughout the Jewish nation as well as from those who are scattered abroad, all as Christians under one new covenant with God, with God's law now written on his covenant children's hearts.

John 11 (ESV)

49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all. 50 Nor do you understand that it is better for you that one man should die for the people, not that the whole nation should perish." 51 He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.


Acts 24 (ESV)

1 And after five days the high priest Ananias came down with some elders and a spokesman, one Tertullus. They laid before the governor their case against Paul. 2 And when he had been summoned, Tertullus began to accuse him, saying: "Since through you we enjoy much peace, and since by your foresight, most excellent Felix, reforms are being made for this nation, 3 in every way and everywhere we accept this with all gratitude. 4 But, to detain you no further, I beg you in your kindness to hear us briefly. 5 For we have found this man a plague, one who stirs up riots among all the Jews throughout the world and is a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes.


Hebrews 8 (ESV)

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[throughfaith]

Hello Throughfaith

The post is based on observation of the posts of some CC members with regards to the commandments of God.

The main points in my posts can be summarized as follows:

1. We are saved by grace through faith, but faith without works like in James 2:17 says is dead. If a person is saved, but does not have love. Love being the fulfilment of the law (Romans 13:8-10). Then their salvation is meaningless. Therefore the devil attacks those who both keep the commandments (show love to both God and man) and are saved and justified by grace through faith.

2. Some people are against the keeping the commandments because they view the keeping of the commandments as legalism and are opposed to them. But legalism is when you think that keeping the commandments can save you. A person is not a legalist if they believe salvation is by grace through faith, and that they must show love to God and man (which is keeping the commandments). The devil is opposed to keeping the commandments and if someone is also opposed to them, then they have an incorrect understanding of the commandments. Some see them as a yoke of bondage, which they should run away from, but they are a law of love. The first 4 are about our love to God and the last 6 are about our love to our fellow neighbor (Matthew 22:37-39, Galatians 5:14)

3. The commandments cannot be done away, which some people believe because why would the devil tempt us to break a law that no longer exists. Why would the devil for example tempt a Christian man to commit adultery or Christians to lie?

The bible verses that I mentioned in the post stood out for me because it is not what I have heard been preached before. It is a different perspective from what have heard.
I did not have the mind-set when writing the post that those who do not keep the commandments are of the devil. I used him as an example to emphasize the importance of the commandments because he is not only God’s enemy, but our biggest enemy and is against God’s commandments. I am sorry if it came across that way.

I would say its the opposite. The Devil would rather us focused on the law and not grace . The Devil does not want a Christian to rest in grace or preach it . Thats why we have Galations.

 

[pottersclay]

This is a sovereignty of God issue, either God is sovereign over His creation or He is not.
I have no other way to explain it.

The POINT was......to show that Satan is God's created creature, under God's authority. He had to ask PERMISSION to sift Job.
The OTHER POINT IS....Satan is not omnipresent, He is physically positioned in the universe. He is not omnipresent, so he is unlikely to be personally tempting individual Christians. That would confine him to one location at a time.
“He who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”—1 John 5:18 (NKJV)

Now I may be wrong but I do not see that in the story of job.
Satan said that the hedge built around job prohibited him from attacking job. If God would remove it Satan said he would have job curse God to his face.
God set the boundaries for the attack. Not to take jobs life.

Satan attacks believers he really has no interest in unbelievers for they pose no threat. He uses the blindness of unbelievers as enemies of God to instill fear and chaos. He shouts in their ears.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Now I may be wrong but I do not see that in the story of job.
Satan said that the hedge built around job prohibited him from attacking job. If God would remove it Satan said he would have job curse God to his face.
God set the boundaries for the attack. Not to take jobs life.

Satan attacks believers he really has no interest in unbelievers for they pose no threat. He uses the blindness of unbelievers as enemies of God to instill fear and chaos. He shouts in their ears.

I wasn't presenting an exegesis of Job.
Satan was asking permission to come against Job, God gave permission but put a hedge around Job so that he would survive.
I view Job as allegory.
I also do not know exactly what you objected to in my post.

You didn't read my view of Satan's abilities as a created being of God. I do not see how anyone can have their own personal Satan.
My view: Satan is not omnipresent.......nor any other 'omni'.
Without Omnipresence he has no ability to busy himself with individual temptations.
I make the point of his not being omnipresent because that really says it all.....he has no ability to act apart from his abilities because he is finite. Bound to one place at a time. He is physically positioned in the universe. I can't say it better than that.

 

[BenjaminN]

I wasn't presenting an exegesis of Job.
Satan was asking permission to come against Job, God gave permission but put a hedge around Job so that he would survive.
I view Job as allegory.
I also do not know exactly what you objected to in my post.

You didn't read my view of Satan's abilities as a created being of God. I do not see how anyone can have their own personal Satan.
My view: Satan is not omnipresent.......nor any other 'omni'.
Without Omnipresence he has no ability to busy himself with individual temptations.
I make the point of his not being omnipresent because that really says it all.....he has no ability to act apart from his abilities because he is finite. Bound to one place at a time. He is physically positioned in the universe. I can't say it better than that.

Ephesians 6 (ESV)

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Ephesians 6 (ESV)

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

That verse does not indicate a personal attack......it actually reinforces my view.

 

[BenjaminN]

Ephesians 6 (ESV)

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

That verse does not indicate a personal attack......it actually reinforces my view.

Yes for sure it is two opposing armies of good and evil. Every individual's free-will determines the side they support in living their lives. There is a spiritual fight here on earth, and the outcome has already been decided, by the One who overcame in heaven, here on earth and in the land of the dead, and rules the universe from the right hand of our Father in heaven.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Ephesians 6 (ESV)

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.



Yes for sure it is two opposing armies of good and evil. Every individual's free-will determines the side they support in living their lives. There is a spiritual fight here on earth, and the outcome has already been decided, by the One who overcame in heaven, here on earth and in the land of the dead, and rules the universe from the right hand of our Father in heaven.

it is allegory

 

[pottersclay]

I wasn't presenting an exegesis of Job.
Satan was asking permission to come against Job, God gave permission but put a hedge around Job so that he would survive.
I view Job as allegory.
I also do not know exactly what you objected to in my post.

You didn't read my view of Satan's abilities as a created being of God. I do not see how anyone can have their own personal Satan.
My view: Satan is not omnipresent.......nor any other 'omni'.
Without Omnipresence he has no ability to busy himself with individual temptations.
I make the point of his not being omnipresent because that really says it all.....he has no ability to act apart from his abilities because he is finite. Bound to one place at a time. He is physically positioned in the universe. I can't say it better than that.

And I say again Satan was not asking permission he was asking for God to drop the hedge.
I don't have my personal Satan... Nor did I say Satan was omnipresent ......drop the attitude.

If you insist as I said I might be in error show me where Satan asks permission....in scripture.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

And I say again Satan was not asking permission he was asking for God to drop the hedge.
I don't have my personal Satan... Nor did I say Satan was omnipresent ......drop the attitude.

If you insist as I said I might be in error show me where Satan asks permission....in scripture.

Satan's asking permission is by way of inference.
Satan has been roaming the earth, (from a universal position) and this was a challenge to God's confidence in Job because of the hedge, so Satan wanted God to remove the hedge to show that without God's hedge, Job would be tempted away.

The whole story is allegorical......truths planted in a story.
I didn't say you had a personal Satan.......it is an attitude that prevails among some believers that Satan tempts them PERSONALLY, as in a little demon sitting on their shoulders. The comment by me was to the point of Satan's lack of omnipresence.

Note: no 'attitude" here, if you drop the ego you won't be taking everything personally.

 

[SheepMary]

3By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. 4If anyone says, “I know Him, but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

“He who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”—1 John 5:18 (NKJV)

18We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18 ESV

 

[SheepMary]

it is allegory

It's literal.

 

[BenjaminN]

Matthew 4 (ESV)

1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 And the tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread." 4 But he answered, "It is written, "'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" 5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple 6 and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, "'He will command his angels concerning you,' and "'On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'" 7 Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'" 8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me." 10 Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'" 11 Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.

 

[SheepMary]

I am a little confused about what you're wanting of because it's titled "the devil's attitude...," but you seem to be leaning toward to obey or not to obey.

This is what's come:

4Whoever says “I know Him” but does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5but whoever keeps His word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in Him: 6whoever says He abides in Him ought to walk in the same way in which He walked. 1 John 2:4-6

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29Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ Mark 12:29-30

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3

If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14:15

And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. 2 John 1:6

By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments. 1 John 5:2

Whoever does not love Me does not keep My Words. John 14:24

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. Matt 28:19-20

47If anyone hears My words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48The one who rejects Me and does not receive My words has a judge; the Word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. John 12:47-48

...and He died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for Him who for their sake died and was raised.2Cor 5:15

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Matt 7:21

17And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. 1 John 2:17

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. James 1:22

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Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. John 3:36

And being made perfect, He became the source of eternal Salvation to all who obey Him... Heb 5:9

He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury... Rom 2:6-8

...when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus 2Thes 1:7-8

To God alone be glory.

 

[SheepMary]

it is allegory

Then why the need for the full armor of God?
Eph 6

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Then why the need for the full armor of God?
Eph 6

Probably to protect ourselves from ourselves, the sin nature of man, the gullibility of people sitting under wolves (false teachers) et all
The armor is not just for protection......the sword is a weapon of aggression. (in the best sense) fight the good fight

 

[soggykitten]

No, I do not think Satan is permitted to tempt people without God's permission. I do not believe he can do ANYTHING without God's permission.

The created is ever under the control of the Creator.

Without Omnipresence he has no ability to busy himself with individual temptations.
I make the point of his not being omnipresent because that really says it all.....he has no ability to act apart from his abilities because he is fiinite. Bound to one place at a time. He is physically positioned in the universe. I can't say it better than that.

I feel like I am saying the same thing over and over again without adding any more edification to anyone.
My core beliefs have a lot to do with this; when God is sovereign then anything is possible and the whole world is for HIS purpose.

Thanks for your answer. This is the first I've inquired of this to you.

 

[Blik]

In order to understand the devil and how he works we need to look to his background.

Isaiah 14:12-15 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

The devil knows scripture thoroughly. He wants us to worship him instead of the Lord. He always works in the same way, we can see his pattern of operation when we study how scripture tells of his working. It was the same reasoning with Adam and Eve and with Christ as Christ prepared in the wilderness for His ministry. The devil uses truths of the Lord, then distorts them. He told Eve they would be like God if they ate of the tree of knowledge. He told Christ if God can turn the stones to bread, then turn this stone to bread. And if God protects you, then jump from this highth.

Our protection from the devil is to know scripture, and watch carefully that we do not add to it or take any away.

The early church councils often added to scripture, saying it was the Holy Spirit that led them. The Holy Spirit never adds or takes from scripture. The Holy Spirit helps with our understanding. We need to be sure we don't fall for church policy that was added through the devil.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Probably to protect ourselves from ourselves, the sin nature of man, the gullibility of people sitting under wolves (false teachers) et all

You have a very confused idea about the armor of God. Did knights wear armor to protect themselves from themselves? Do you see how absurd your ideas are?

Ephesians 6 even tells us exactly who the enemies are and what is the purpose of the armor of God. So there is no excuse for misunderstanding this.