Is Acts 3 to Jews and Proselytes only ?

[throughfaith]

May I refer you to my posting # 94.

I'm in agreement with Guojing on this one.

 

[Corban]

So you consider 1 Cor 15, the latter part, to be about the 2nd coming of Christ instead?

You've lost me brother. Did I say such a thing?

But you tell me anyway, what does 1st Corinthians 15:23 say? Do you find the phrase; "WHEN HE COMES"? And tell me, what means "the last trumpet" when the dead in Christ shall rise? Do we not find the same Trumpet in 1st Thessalonians 4:15-18?

1st Corinthians Chapter 15 gives the deatil of the resurrection of the dead. Since we are raised at the time of the second coming of Christ, this second coming is mentioned. But the second coming is not the theme. Resurrection is.

 

[throughfaith]

You've lost me brother. Did I say such a thing?

But you tell me anyway, what does 1st Corinthians 15:23 say? Do you find the phrase; "WHEN HE COMES"? And tell me, what means "the last trumpet" when the dead in Christ shall rise? Do we not find the same Trumpet in 1st Thessalonians 4:15-18?

1st Corinthians Chapter 15 gives the deatil of the resurrection of the dead. Since we are raised at the time of the second coming of Christ, this second coming is mentioned. But the second coming is not the theme. Resurrection is.

So many trumpets

 

[Corban]

I'm in agreement with Guojing on this one.

That's your right.

 

[Guojing]

You've lost me brother. Did I say such a thing?

But you tell me anyway, what does 1st Corinthians 15:23 say? Do you find the phrase; "WHEN HE COMES"? And tell me, what means "the last trumpet" when the dead in Christ shall rise? Do we not find the same Trumpet in 1st Thessalonians 4:15-18?

1st Corinthians Chapter 15 gives the deatil of the resurrection of the dead. Since we are raised at the time of the second coming of Christ, this second coming is mentioned. But the second coming is not the theme. Resurrection is.

Isn't the statement you made in bold saying that 1 Cor 15 is about the 2nd coming?

 

[Corban]

Isn't the statement you made in bold saying that 1 Cor 15 is about the 2nd coming?

No. I sais that the second coming is NOT the THEME, but it is MENTIONED.

But my esteemed brother, they were questions. So now that I've answered you, won't you answer me? Thanks.

I ask because those Christians who watch Hollywood for their belief in the Rapture think that the Rapture is what happens in the "twinkling of an eye". It is not. It is the change of a Christian's BODY from corruptibility to incorruptibility that takes 4/100ths of a second. I asked the questions so that you would have to (i) check up, and (ii) be careful in your handling of God's Word. I don't say you are not careful. I just wanted you to look it up and say, Yes, verse 51 of 1st Corinthians 15 is about a CHANGE and not the Rapture.

 

[Guojing]

No. I sais that the second coming is NOT the THEME, but it is MENTIONED.

But my esteemed brother, they were questions. So now that I've answered you, won't you answer me? Thanks.

I ask because those Christians who watch Hollywood for their belief in the Rapture think that the Rapture is what happens in the "twinkling of an eye". It is not. It is the change of a Christian's BODY from corruptibility to incorruptibility that takes 4/100ths of a second. I asked the questions so that you would have to (i) check up, and (ii) be careful in your handling of God's Word. I don't say you are not careful. I just wanted you to look it up and say, Yes, verse 51 of 1st Corinthians 15 is about a CHANGE and not the Rapture.

1 cor 15, the latter part, takes place During the 2nd coming.

That is what you are saying, Is that correct?

 

[Corban]

1 cor 15, the latter part, takes place During the 2nd coming.

That is what you are saying, Is that correct?

This is what I say.

1st Corinthians 15:23 says; "When he (Christ) comes ... ." So verse 23 happens at the time Christ comes. But the Greek word used is "parousia", which is literally "His PRESENCE". This means that Christ is "PRESENT" somewhere, and 1st Thessalonians says this PRESENCE is in the clouds.

1st Corinthians 15:51-55 occurs at the last Trumpet for Christians. According to 1st Thessalonians 4, this happens when Christ has descended to the clouds and is "PRESENT" there to receive us.

1st Corinthians 15:51-55 happens on earth, within minutes BEFORE the Rapture to the clouds to meet Christ.

1st Corinthians 15:51-55 does not concern the Rapture, even if the Rapture takes place a minute later. It concerns the SOLUTION to a corrupt body that is still alive at the last Trumpet for Christians.

I am being this precise because you posed the question and offered me a "yes/no" option. I accord you sincerity, but a loaded question with a yes/no only option can be a trap.

Now, I have willingly and precisely answered your questions. Are you going to answer mine?

 

[Guojing]

This is what I say.

1st Corinthians 15:51-55 does not concern the Rapture, even if the Rapture takes place a minute later. It concerns the SOLUTION to a corrupt body that is still alive at the last Trumpet for Christians.

Thanks, but you don't think you are splitting hair here?

The timing of the rapture is a secret only known to God the Father.

The so-called "1 minute before the Rapture" still hinged on the timing of the Rapture correct?

Thus, you still want to use this "1 minute before the Rapture" as proof of your claim that 1 Cor 15:51-55 does not concern the Rapture?

Isn't this the definition of splitting hair?

 

[Blik]

You disagree with Romans 11:11?

I am corrected. All of the Lord's working with Israel, I can see, has to do with our salvation. Thanks much.

 

[Corban]

Thanks, but you don't think you are splitting hair here?

The timing of the rapture is a secret only known to God the Father.

The so-called "1 minute before the Rapture" still hinged on the timing of the Rapture correct?

Thus, you still want to use this "1 minute before the Rapture" as proof of your claim that 1 Cor 15:51-55 does not concern the Rapture?

Isn't this the definition of splitting hair?

When dealing with God's Word, being accused of splitting hairs is a compliment. Countless students of the Bible are so inaccurate with God's Word, but know very well that just dot in the wrong place in an Internet address, man's device, will not get them into that webpage.

But I think you have understood my point. 1st Corinthians 15 is about the resurrection, not the Rapture. The "blink of an eye" is not the time it takes to be Raptured. It is the time it takes for God's Spirit to lay of the old body of sin and death, and make it new as 2nd Corinthians 5 tells. If you want to mate 1st Corinthians 15:51-55 to 1st Thessalonians 4:15-18, here's the sequence.

1. Christ has left His Father's throne "above the highest heaven" and descended to the Stratosphere (where there are clouds)
2. Christ is "PRESENT" in the clouds and the last trumpet for Christians✽, together with the Word of God, sounds
3. The SOULS of dead Christians in Hades RISE to the surface of the earth and meet their new bodies there
4. The LIVING Christians undergo a change of body in about 4/100th of a second (on the surface of the earth where they are)
5. Then TOGETHER with the RISEN Christians, BOTH in glorified bodies, are caught away to meet Christ in the clouds
6. Since they are alive, they "STAND" before the Son of man (Lk.21:36)
7. Since judgment must begin in the House of the Lord (1st Pet.4:17), Christ is set on the Bema and calls each one to give account of their WORKS (Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10)
8. When this Judgment is complete, Revelation 19 kicks in. Those found to have "DONE the will of the Father" (Matt.7:21-23) will (i) be invited to the Wedding Feast, (ii) be part of Christ's army for Armageddon, (iii) be arrayed in a suitable Garment, and (iv) will be appointed cities over which they will rule (Lk.19:17-19). Those Christians who were self-centered, slothful, habitual sinners and who have no intimate relationship with Christ, will be consigned to loss and chastisement.

✽ A trumpet was used in the Bible for two things. (i) To call a gathering, and (ii) to announce something. There are a number of trumpets throughout the Bible. The "GATHERING" of Christians is called and announced by the "last Trump" for Christians. Then there is a "trumpet" for gathering Israel (Matt.24:31). In Revelation 8:13 and 9:14 a trumpet sounds to announce things to the world. The point is that "last Trumpet" is the last trumpet for Christians - not the last trumpet ever.

You will appreciate that if the total number of Christians who ever lived, and who are alive at Christ's coming, is 1% of the world's population who ever lived and who are alive at Christ's coming, there could be 144 million Christians. If each is given 1 minute to account for them selves, the total time at the Bema would be 144 million minutes. There are 1,440 minutes to a day. In normal maths the Bema would then take 274 years.

I have no idea what date the Rapture will take place. Noah went into the Ark seven days before it started to rain. But 274 years ... ? Even if we half that it is still 137 years.

We have no idea how its going to work.

 

[Guojing]

When dealing with God's Word, being accused of splitting hairs is a compliment. Countless students of the Bible are so inaccurate with God's Word, but know very well that just dot in the wrong place in an Internet address, man's device, will not get them into that webpage.

But I think you have understood my point. 1st Corinthians 15 is about the resurrection, not the Rapture. The "blink of an eye" is not the time it takes to be Raptured. It is the time it takes for God's Spirit to lay of the old body of sin and death, and make it new as 2nd Corinthians 5 tells. If you want to mate 1st Corinthians 15:51-55 to 1st Thessalonians 4:15-18, here's the sequence.

1. Christ has left His Father's throne "above the highest heaven" and descended to the Stratosphere (where there are clouds)
2. Christ is "PRESENT" in the clouds and the last trumpet for Christians✽, together with the Word of God, sounds
3. The SOULS of dead Christians in Hades RISE to the surface of the earth and meet their new bodies there
4. The LIVING Christians undergo a change of body in about 4/100th of a second (on the surface of the earth where they are)
5. Then TOGETHER with the RISEN Christians, BOTH in glorified bodies, are caught away to meet Christ in the clouds
6. Since they are alive, they "STAND" before the Son of man (Lk.21:36)
7. Since judgment must begin in the House of the Lord (1st Pet.4:17), Christ is set on the Bema and calls each one to give account of their WORKS (Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10)
8. When this Judgment is complete, Revelation 19 kicks in. Those found to have "DONE the will of the Father" (Matt.7:21-23) will (i) be invited to the Wedding Feast, (ii) be part of Christ's army for Armageddon, (iii) be arrayed in a suitable Garment, and (iv) will be appointed cities over which they will rule (Lk.19:17-19). Those Christians who were self-centered, slothful, habitual sinners and who have no intimate relationship with Christ, will be consigned to loss and chastisement.

✽ A trumpet was used in the Bible for two things. (i) To call a gathering, and (ii) to announce something. There are a number of trumpets throughout the Bible. The "GATHERING" of Christians is called and announced by the "last Trump" for Christians. Then there is a "trumpet" for gathering Israel (Matt.24:31). In Revelation 8:13 and 9:14 a trumpet sounds to announce things to the world. The point is that "last Trumpet" is the last trumpet for Christians - not the last trumpet ever.

You will appreciate that if the total number of Christians who ever lived, and who are alive at Christ's coming, is 1% of the world's population who ever lived and who are alive at Christ's coming, there could be 144 million Christians. If each is given 1 minute to account for them selves, the total time at the Bema would be 144 million minutes. There are 1,440 minutes to a day. In normal maths the Bema would then take 274 years.

I have no idea what date the Rapture will take place. Noah went into the Ark seven days before it started to rain. But 274 years ... ? Even if we half that it is still 137 years.

We have no idea how its going to work.

Alright then, I believe 1 cor 15:51 onwards is about the rapture while you don’t.

That is fine, we can agree to disagree

 

[Absolutely]

The foundational presentation of the Gospel in Acts 2 is a law of first reference in the history of the Church. It is connected with the empoweing of the Holy Spirit after conversion, the power from on High to be a witness and to carry out the great commission.

This mandate to preach the Gospel to every nation and then shall the end come is our current mission. You can use Peters presentation as a good example but there are others in the book of Acts as well and they all say the same thing and are not different as you attempt to suggest. Even if Peter did think that Jesus meant only Jews in every nation Jesus did not mean that. We know from the rest of scriptures.

It does not matter that He started with the Jews, the message continues and has not changed. To apply it to your current location it would be that after you are born again and empowered with the Holy Spirit you should preach the Gospel in your town, in your neighboring town and get engaged in efforts to help spread it to the uttermost parts of the earth. To every tribe, tongue, people and nation, and the fact that it started with Jews does not mean you have been given a different mission or that you cannot receive the mandate from the initial mission

So yes, Acts 2 does apply to me.

Evangelism is only one part of the ministry.

The power of the Holy Spirit is for all the ministry and building up of the body of Christ.

 

[Absolutely]

When dealing with God's Word, being accused of splitting hairs is a compliment. Countless students of the Bible are so inaccurate with God's Word, but know very well that just dot in the wrong place in an Internet address, man's device, will not get them into that webpage.

But I think you have understood my point. 1st Corinthians 15 is about the resurrection, not the Rapture. The "blink of an eye" is not the time it takes to be Raptured. It is the time it takes for God's Spirit to lay of the old body of sin and death, and make it new as 2nd Corinthians 5 tells. If you want to mate 1st Corinthians 15:51-55 to 1st Thessalonians 4:15-18, here's the sequence.

1. Christ has left His Father's throne "above the highest heaven" and descended to the Stratosphere (where there are clouds)
2. Christ is "PRESENT" in the clouds and the last trumpet for Christians✽, together with the Word of God, sounds
3. The SOULS of dead Christians in Hades RISE to the surface of the earth and meet their new bodies there
4. The LIVING Christians undergo a change of body in about 4/100th of a second (on the surface of the earth where they are)
5. Then TOGETHER with the RISEN Christians, BOTH in glorified bodies, are caught away to meet Christ in the clouds
6. Since they are alive, they "STAND" before the Son of man (Lk.21:36)
7. Since judgment must begin in the House of the Lord (1st Pet.4:17), Christ is set on the Bema and calls each one to give account of their WORKS (Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10)
8. When this Judgment is complete, Revelation 19 kicks in. Those found to have "DONE the will of the Father" (Matt.7:21-23) will (i) be invited to the Wedding Feast, (ii) be part of Christ's army for Armageddon, (iii) be arrayed in a suitable Garment, and (iv) will be appointed cities over which they will rule (Lk.19:17-19). Those Christians who were self-centered, slothful, habitual sinners and who have no intimate relationship with Christ, will be consigned to loss and chastisement.

✽ A trumpet was used in the Bible for two things. (i) To call a gathering, and (ii) to announce something. There are a number of trumpets throughout the Bible. The "GATHERING" of Christians is called and announced by the "last Trump" for Christians. Then there is a "trumpet" for gathering Israel (Matt.24:31). In Revelation 8:13 and 9:14 a trumpet sounds to announce things to the world. The point is that "last Trumpet" is the last trumpet for Christians - not the last trumpet ever.

You will appreciate that if the total number of Christians who ever lived, and who are alive at Christ's coming, is 1% of the world's population who ever lived and who are alive at Christ's coming, there could be 144 million Christians. If each is given 1 minute to account for them selves, the total time at the Bema would be 144 million minutes. There are 1,440 minutes to a day. In normal maths the Bema would then take 274 years.

I have no idea what date the Rapture will take place. Noah went into the Ark seven days before it started to rain. But 274 years ... ? Even if we half that it is still 137 years.

We have no idea how its going to work.[/QUOTE/]

""When this Judgment is complete, Revelation 19 kicks in. Those found to have "DONE the will of the Father" (Matt.7:21-23) will (i) be invited to the Wedding Feast, (ii) be part of Christ's army for Armageddon, (iii) be arrayed in a suitable Garment, and (iv) will be appointed cities over which they will rule (Lk.19:17-19). Those Christians who were self-centered, slothful, habitual sinners and who have no intimate relationship with

""When this Judgment is complete, Revelation 19 kicks in. Those found to have "DONE the will of the Father" (Matt.7:21-23) will (i) be invited to the Wedding Feast, (ii) be part of Christ's army for Armageddon, (iii) be arrayed in a suitable Garment, and (iv) will be appointed cities over which they will rule (Lk.19:17-19). Those Christians who were self-centered, slothful, habitual sinners and who have no intimate relationship with Christ, will be consigned to loss and chastisement.""

In the virgin parable the believers are separated at the gathering,prior to leaving with the groom (the rapture)
The "one taken" in mat 24 is also the virgin dynamic.(rapture)

The bema is rewards. Judgement for believers is here on earth. That is why paul ,and we, were/are scourged (disciplined) in this lifetime.

Those left behind at the pretrib rapture are beheaded via refusing the mark.
They are the "innumerable number " found in heaven early on in revelation.

God makes a way for his people.

 

[Scribe]

Evangelism is only one part of the ministry.

The power of the Holy Spirit is for all the ministry and building up of the body of Christ.

Agreed, and for sanctification. However in the context of Lucan pneumatology vs Paul's emphasis on sanctification I believe Luke emphasizes the empowering for the mission of planting and building the church.

There is a command to go into all the world, baptize them and teach them but then after he said that, he said, "But WAIT, until you be endued with power from on high to be a witness and then Go." Therefore I interpret Luke as attempting to communicate the importance of this Pentecostal experience for world evangelism. The Holy Spirit being given to every believer for sanctification upon rebirth but this Pentecostal experience that comes after rebirth and after one has the Holy Spirit is for empowering to be a witness and with it comes the charismatic gifts.

Now I agree that these charismatic gifts are for the edifying of the body of Christ and not just for evangelism.

 

[Corban]

Alright then, I believe 1 cor 15:51 onwards is about the rapture while you don’t.

That is fine, we can agree to disagree

Great. Now, could you give me your argument. Maybe we can find agreement.

 

[Corban]

""When this Judgment is complete, Revelation 19 kicks in. Those found to have "DONE the will of the Father" (Matt.7:21-23) will (i) be invited to the Wedding Feast, (ii) be part of Christ's army for Armageddon, (iii) be arrayed in a suitable Garment, and (iv) will be appointed cities over which they will rule (Lk.19:17-19). Those Christians who were self-centered, slothful, habitual sinners and who have no intimate relationship with Christ, will be consigned to loss and chastisement.""

In the virgin parable the believers are separated at the gathering,prior to leaving with the groom (the rapture)
The "one taken" in mat 24 is also the virgin dynamic.(rapture)

The bema is rewards. Judgement for believers is here on earth. That is why paul ,and we, were/are scourged (disciplined) in this lifetime.

Those left behind at the pretrib rapture are beheaded via refusing the mark.
They are the "innumerable number " found in heaven early on in revelation.

God makes a way for his people.

O.K. Your opinion is noted. Pity you could not show it with scriptures. Go well bro.

 

[posthuman]

We can of course look back and infer all these now. We have the advantage of the completed scriptures that they do not.

I am just saying "gospel" means good news.

God released various good news to different people at different periods of time, the audience then don't have to infer anything about Christ in them, in order to be saved.

They just need to believe what the good news literally says.

we will know fully when Christ comes and makes all things new.
the fact that we will have revelation then doesn't make the gospel as we will know it in eternity "a different gospel"

there is one and only one gospel. it was preached to Adam in the sight of angels, and it was preached to Noah, and it was preached to Nebuchadnezzar, and it was preached to Cornelius, and it was preached to us: God is Salvation

one good news: He is a God of mercy. anything other than the mercy of God is bad news.

 

[Scribe]

we will know fully when Christ comes and makes all things new.
the fact that we will have revelation then doesn't make the gospel as we will know it in eternity "a different gospel"

there is one and only one gospel. it was preached to Adam in the sight of angels, and it was preached to Noah, and it was preached to Nebuchadnezzar, and it was preached to Cornelius, and it was preached to us: God is Salvation

one good news: He is a God of mercy. anything other than the mercy of God is bad news.

And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

5Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

6And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

 

[Guojing]

we will know fully when Christ comes and makes all things new.
the fact that we will have revelation then doesn't make the gospel as we will know it in eternity "a different gospel"

there is one and only one gospel. it was preached to Adam in the sight of angels, and it was preached to Noah, and it was preached to Nebuchadnezzar, and it was preached to Cornelius, and it was preached to us: God is Salvation

one good news: He is a God of mercy. anything other than the mercy of God is bad news.

So you are disagreeing that God has various good news for different people at different period of time, even if those are contained in scriptures?