Why do Christians think its okay to associate with evildoers or absolve their behavior?

[saintrose]

I've been reviewing a lot of what I've seen over the last 40 years and putting it all together to try to make sense of it all and of God. I've seen Christians do some pretty sinful things over the years. But I have equally seen Christians do some tricky mental gymnastics in EXCUSING overtly sinful behavior in OTHERS.

I've seen a terrible perversion in human behavior which is this: if you do evil to others but just not do it to ME, I'm okay with you. I learned this perversion first hand when a neighbor crazed out on drugs who lived next door to us came after us with a torque wrench, and remained in the neighborhood after being arrested, and people talked to them and were still welcoming to them as long as ~they~ weren't the one experiencing negative effects from it. (It was one of the worst spiritual attacks I've had) You would think that people raising families would ostracize those doing things that were overtly anti-family and even dangerous. But they didn't. I learned a real lesson throughout that about how fickle people are. I think people were actually afraid that if they weren't nice to the couple on drugs, then their craziness would be turned on them.

But what was even a greater eye-opener was that Christians did this. A Christian sibling did something extremely evil and another Christian sibling kept associating with her as if nothing had happened. My whole world was reeling from the blow, and I was trying to gain my bearings it was so bad, and the other Christian sibling kept associating with the evil one as if nothing had happened. I saw the same law of human behavior was at work: as long as you're doing you're evil to another person and not to ME I'm okay with you.

We attended a church where the family who ran it was very corrupt. The youth pastor ran into a woman and killed her. He bragged that he knew all the cops in town and he wasn't charged. Not even with reckless driving or making a wrong turn. Nothing. Instead of shunning him or rebuking him no one did anything. Of course the family's reckless behavior continued and they ended up hurting a lot of people.

Has anyone else noticed this type of excusing of bad behavior? Christians seem to have the erroneous idea that this type of excusing of bad behavior doesn't matter. I looked for verses pertaining to it and all I could think of was one.

Howw much do you think that God holds this type of behavior accountable?

Proverbs 17:15

“He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.”

 

[Blain]

I've been reviewing a lot of what I've seen over the last 40 years and putting it all together to try to make sense of it all and of God. I've seen Christians do some pretty sinful things over the years. But I have equally seen Christians do some tricky mental gymnastics in EXCUSING overtly sinful behavior in OTHERS.

I've seen a terrible perversion in human behavior which is this: if you do evil to others but just not do it to ME, I'm okay with you. I learned this perversion first hand when a neighbor crazed out on drugs who lived next door to us came after us with a torque wrench, and remained in the neighborhood after being arrested, and people talked to them and were still welcoming to them as long as ~they~ weren't the one experiencing negative effects from it. (It was one of the worst spiritual attacks I've had) You would think that people raising families would ostracize those doing things that were overtly anti-family and even dangerous. But they didn't. I learned a real lesson throughout that about how fickle people are. I think people were actually afraid that if they weren't nice to the couple on drugs, then their craziness would be turned on them.

But what was even a greater eye-opener was that Christians did this. A Christian sibling did something extremely evil and another Christian sibling kept associating with her as if nothing had happened. My whole world was reeling from the blow, and I was trying to gain my bearings it was so bad, and the other Christian sibling kept associating with the evil one as if nothing had happened. I saw the same law of human behavior was at work: as long as you're doing you're evil to another person and not to ME I'm okay with you.

We attended a church where the family who ran it was very corrupt. The youth pastor ran into a woman and killed her. He bragged that he knew all the cops in town and he wasn't charged. Not even with reckless driving or making a wrong turn. Nothing. Instead of shunning him or rebuking him no one did anything. Of course the family's reckless behavior continued and they ended up hurting a lot of people.

Has anyone else noticed this type of excusing of bad behavior? Christians seem to have the erroneous idea that this type of excusing of bad behavior doesn't matter. I looked for verses pertaining to it and all I could think of was one.

Howw much do you think that God holds this type of behavior accountable?

Proverbs 17:15

“He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.”

I am so sorry you have had to deal with this and yes sadly this is a very real and much more common thing than people like to think, the issue is that the word Christian nowadays has become a title not a lifestyle.
Anyone can claim to be a Christian but when faced with such people this is where the stance really shows. It's actually very sickening how the title Christian is used, did you know it's actually very easy to become rich with the title Christian?

The formula is quite simples really start your own church have a decent study knowledge of scripture and preach a gospel that you know people will gladly follow it's that easy. The prosperity gospel is the most common one of these methods and even then if you study the statitics of doctrines that are the best well recieved and have the basic understanding of how the human mind works it is actually scary how easy it is used dupe people.

People who do these kind of things are very evil and often times get away with it, they know that people will follow anyone if they are told and taught what they want to hear no one wants to hear about not sinning or walking in the light after all this isn't about God it's about them it is about receiving and some people join such churches because life has failed them and pastors of this kind of doctrine prey on such people, many give testimonies of how the words of the pastor just spoke to them how God touched their hearts from it but you see this is basic brainwashing the person heard what they needed to hear it gave them hope and so in their minds God touched their hearts but in reality the pastor secretly knows how this method works and so people give and give and give bringing many more people into the church and the cycle continues.

Many also claim how they received what they prayed for be that financial gain that job they wanted healing ect. This again is psychology the brain is amazingly powerful when you believe in this doctrine this triggers the part of the brain that is coincided with the placebo effect even if your not saved this effect is actually amazingly effective you get that new job because you just have this glow about you people are attracted to such people they get a good vibe from this person

You get financial gain because your life in general is better the very fact a happy attitude tends to make ones life go their way is also how it works you are more happy you work harder and luck just seems to be on your side. people can even be healed because they believe they will even the brain itself if you convince yourself fully that you don't have a disease the body begins to naturally cure itself. Some could say well the ends justifies then means then but what pastors like this are doing is evil and are only doing it for their own gain and it disgusts me.

But make no mistake people who call themselves Christian and yet do evil to others and are kind to evil will be held accountable they say karma is a lets just say jerk but who is to say this isn't God's justice system? When you evil to others it always ends up biting you back

 

[JaumeJ]

We are to win them by our love. Now when the term, evil-doers, is being employed, is this being applied to all outside the family in Jesus-Yeshua? If so it is a call to not work in the field given us by the Master.

We cannot leave the world whil in the flesh. It is very easy to practice loving all, even our enemies............

 

[Blain]

We are to win them by our love. Now when the term, evil-doers, is being employed, is this being applied to all outside the family in Jesus-Yeshua? If so it is a call to not work in the field given us by the Master.

We cannot leave the world whil in the flesh. It is very easy to practice loving all, even our enemies............

Yes we are to love them but if if you do such an evil act as what rose is going through and you are recieved as if nothing was wrong you don't learn your lesson and are likely to do it again

More often than not rebuke is more loving than to recieve them with open arms because if yopu love someone you want the best for them and if you do not correct them in their misdeeds and guide them to the way of righteousness is that really love or are you letting them do as they please?

 

[Sipsey]

We are implored to ”Love” even our enemies. This is not the normal type of love many are prone to exercise. This love is only available through the power of the Holy Spirit and it enables a Christian to do so without fear.

It shines a light on our personal situations that allows us to see the fractured souls of those doing the wrongs. Our forgiveness allows them to see the power of God’s love In action, but it doesn’t mean we become timid or drop our guard.

 

[Lanolin]

why would evil even phase God. He is above all and sees all.

as for being christian, what country are you from? some peoples countries version of christianity is very backwards...!
I can think of a few weird cults that call themselves christians, and claim they are good and in the right when they are evil and in the wrong. They are under a sttong delusion!

To me, that is not being christian no matter what kind of church they say they belong to.

The other thing is, you need strong armour of God when you are a christian so as not to be a victim of evil attack. If you lack this, you do need to know how to use it, so ask God.

we had some drug crazed families in our street that moved into a state house that was in our street. The poor neighbour that lived next door to them had to put up with their parties and rubbish and yelling and screaming and stolen vehicles. she got fed up not ever having a good nights sleep and moved house.

us neighbours couldnt do much, we rang the landlord, we complained to the state housing authority on her behalf, we reported any stuff going on to the police, we got community patrols, we prayed...but it took ages because we were not the landlords so had no power to evict them.

evil landlords who just take the money and dont care about what goes on with their tenants, who have criminal behaviours and are basically given a state subsidised home, we dont think much of but they are usually faceless agencies who are not accountable. It turned out it was a christian agency and we thought they would get onto these people, but a lot of these christians wouldnt even invite them to their own home but think its best to place them into cheap, substandard housing thats in a neighbourhood thats FAR away from them but right near others (who also may be christians but obviously arent wealthy)
I would say if you gonna give people housing you need to make sure the tenants are not turning the accomodation in to a drug den at the very least, nobody wants to live with a tinnie house next door!

but some people think as long as they are getting their rent, they dont care the means of how rhey get it. its very sad. those tenants need to be in rehab, not being allowed to rent a home so they can deal drugs.

 

[Lanolin]

when dealing with spirtual warfare its imperative to know what a legal right is. If you give demons a legal right to be in your life, its hard to evict them. This may have been an agreement in the past that is causuing you huge headaches now, or some compromise. This is why lots of people get abused because the husband starts beating up the wife, but nobody can really do anything about it until they agree to divorce, for if separated that doesnt guarantee that the wife is not going to be touched again, as marriage gives ones legal right to each others bodies.

thats just one example.

 

[JaumeJ]

Yes we are to love them but if if you do such an evil act as what rose is going through and you are recieved as if nothing was wrong you don't learn your lesson and are likely to do it again

More often than not rebuke is more loving than to recieve them with open arms because if yopu love someone you want the best for them and if you do not correct them in their misdeeds and guide them to the way of righteousness is that really love or are you letting them do as they please?

I have not said otherwise. Sorry you do not understand what I posst.

 

[Blain]

I have not said otherwise. Sorry you do not understand what I posst.

No it is likely my fault for the life of me I can't sleep well and last night was impossible so my mind is hazy today

 

[p_rehbein]

Rose said:

I've been reviewing a lot of what I've seen over the last 40 years and putting it all together to try to make sense of it all and of God. I've seen Christians do some pretty sinful things over the years. But I have equally seen Christians do some tricky mental gymnastics in EXCUSING overtly sinful behavior in OTHERS.

Sister: It is not our responsibility to "excuse" the sins of others, regardless of the church, denomination one is part of. The forgiveness of sin, or the issuance of punishment lies with God.

The part of your question about "associating" with sinners is more tricky. Jesus Himself said He did not come to earth to heal the righteous, but the sick. He was criticized for eating with sinners, "associating" with sinners. He also instructed the church to "go into all the world", and this is what makes it tricky to learn the difference between "associating" and being "a partner in" sinners/sinful acts.

The people in charge of this church you describe are FAR FROM Christians by any standard I read in the Bible. My question is why do you attend that church?

Rose said:

Has anyone else noticed this type of excusing of bad behavior? Christians seem to have the erroneous idea that this type of excusing of bad behavior doesn't matter. I looked for verses pertaining to it and all I could think of was one.

It seems to me you are far too liberal in the use of the term "Christian." Maybe that is the problem? The world if FULL of false teachers, regardless of what they claim to be.

God bless, find a Bible congregation, or, if that is not possible where you live, worship at home with your family. That would be my suggestion. And DO NOT identify all those who profess to be Christians as Christians. We are to discern the spirits. Do that before you choose what to call them.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I've been reviewing a lot of what I've seen over the last 40 years and putting it all together to try to make sense of it all and of God. I've seen Christians do some pretty sinful things over the years. But I have equally seen Christians do some tricky mental gymnastics in EXCUSING overtly sinful behavior in OTHERS.

I've seen a terrible perversion in human behavior which is this: if you do evil to others but just not do it to ME, I'm okay with you. I learned this perversion first hand when a neighbor crazed out on drugs who lived next door to us came after us with a torque wrench, and remained in the neighborhood after being arrested, and people talked to them and were still welcoming to them as long as ~they~ weren't the one experiencing negative effects from it. (It was one of the worst spiritual attacks I've had) You would think that people raising families would ostracize those doing things that were overtly anti-family and even dangerous. But they didn't. I learned a real lesson throughout that about how fickle people are. I think people were actually afraid that if they weren't nice to the couple on drugs, then their craziness would be turned on them.

But what was even a greater eye-opener was that Christians did this. A Christian sibling did something extremely evil and another Christian sibling kept associating with her as if nothing had happened. My whole world was reeling from the blow, and I was trying to gain my bearings it was so bad, and the other Christian sibling kept associating with the evil one as if nothing had happened. I saw the same law of human behavior was at work: as long as you're doing you're evil to another person and not to ME I'm okay with you.

We attended a church where the family who ran it was very corrupt. The youth pastor ran into a woman and killed her. He bragged that he knew all the cops in town and he wasn't charged. Not even with reckless driving or making a wrong turn. Nothing. Instead of shunning him or rebuking him no one did anything. Of course the family's reckless behavior continued and they ended up hurting a lot of people.

Has anyone else noticed this type of excusing of bad behavior? Christians seem to have the erroneous idea that this type of excusing of bad behavior doesn't matter. I looked for verses pertaining to it and all I could think of was one.

Howw much do you think that God holds this type of behavior accountable?

Proverbs 17:15

“He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.”

I think probably some Christians are aware that they are a sinner also and are not the judge of others . And want sinners to run to Christ and not away from him

“For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:9-13‬ ‭

possibly they realize a sinner is a sinner , and there’s only 1 who gets to decide who is forgiven for their many sins , and who is held to account for theirs consider this sinner and this Pharisee and what Jesus is teaching

“And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.

There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?

Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:37-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice Jesus didn’t require anything regarding sin or the law from her ? He didn’t point out her many sins and take her over the coals . What he did was corrected the heart of the Pharisee who looked down on sinners thinking himself worthy and she not based upon his own judgement but he was far from Christ’s judgement

there’s a reason sinners love Jesus , and self righteous people mostly reject him

 

[Dino246]

I've been reviewing a lot of what I've seen over the last 40 years and putting it all together to try to make sense of it all and of God. I've seen Christians do some pretty sinful things over the years. But I have equally seen Christians do some tricky mental gymnastics in EXCUSING overtly sinful behavior in OTHERS.

I've seen a terrible perversion in human behavior which is this: if you do evil to others but just not do it to ME, I'm okay with you. I learned this perversion first hand when a neighbor crazed out on drugs who lived next door to us came after us with a torque wrench, and remained in the neighborhood after being arrested, and people talked to them and were still welcoming to them as long as ~they~ weren't the one experiencing negative effects from it. (It was one of the worst spiritual attacks I've had) You would think that people raising families would ostracize those doing things that were overtly anti-family and even dangerous. But they didn't. I learned a real lesson throughout that about how fickle people are. I think people were actually afraid that if they weren't nice to the couple on drugs, then their craziness would be turned on them.

But what was even a greater eye-opener was that Christians did this. A Christian sibling did something extremely evil and another Christian sibling kept associating with her as if nothing had happened. My whole world was reeling from the blow, and I was trying to gain my bearings it was so bad, and the other Christian sibling kept associating with the evil one as if nothing had happened. I saw the same law of human behavior was at work: as long as you're doing you're evil to another person and not to ME I'm okay with you.

We attended a church where the family who ran it was very corrupt. The youth pastor ran into a woman and killed her. He bragged that he knew all the cops in town and he wasn't charged. Not even with reckless driving or making a wrong turn. Nothing. Instead of shunning him or rebuking him no one did anything. Of course the family's reckless behavior continued and they ended up hurting a lot of people.

Has anyone else noticed this type of excusing of bad behavior? Christians seem to have the erroneous idea that this type of excusing of bad behavior doesn't matter. I looked for verses pertaining to it and all I could think of was one.

Howw much do you think that God holds this type of behavior accountable?

Proverbs 17:15

“He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.”

Doesn't it just stink when you can't control other people? Doesn't it frustrate the heaven out of you that you aren't God, and can't smite everyone who "tolerates" wickedness?

In the real world, nobody answers to you except you. If you have a problem with someone else, you can deal with it in a biblically sound way, or you can deal with it in a thousand ways that are not biblically sound. I recommend the former, even though it's rarely as satisfying.

During the period of my divorce, I experienced similar feelings to those you describe. I was annoyed that others didn't distance themselves from or rebuke the offender. Through that, though, I realized that I'm not their judge. Most people don't even know the details, and as they were neither involved nor witnesses to the sinful behaviour, it really wasn't their place to judge.

God knows all the details of every situation, and He will judge with perfect justice. We don't get perfect justice in this life. You might be better off not expecting it, and rather, be thankful that God doesn't deal with your sin the way you want everyone else to deal with the sin of others.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

The answer you seek is found in the Cross. Jesus Christ is the solution for mankind - there is no other! It takes the Power of God to set the captive free. Many bypass the Cross for their solutions and Grace is canceled. These problems we face are too severe to be talked out of anybody. Bondage (taskmasters are demon spirits that come to afflict - Exodus 1:11) can be broken only by the Power of God. This is why Jesus had to come from Heaven and die on the Cross in order that the power of sin may be broken. Sin has a power behind it and his name is Satan.

If a Christian will and their efforts to live for God is in anything except Christ and the Cross, i.e., Finished Work, The Blood of Jesus (Romans 8:2), Satan can override your will and force you to do things you don't want to do and trying not to do (Ephesians 6:12). Our willpower is routed in flesh. This is why Jesus said deny yourself and pick up your cross and follow me (Luke 9:23). In other words, receive my benefits daily I have provided for you. Psalms 103:2

The Christian is doomed to failure if he thinks he can face the sin business and simply say yes or no. That's not the way it works. Those who try that (and almost all have) will conclude by failing every time. You may win for a while, but after a while, you're going to fail.

Now, stop and think about this for a moment: If it were possible for us to defeat sin and the attacks of Satan by willpower, then Jesus would not have had to come down here and die on a Cross. He could have merely taught us how to function within our willpower, and that would have solved the problem.

However, He didn't do that, did He? The truth is, the problem of sin is so deadly that it took the Cross to defeat this monster, and even then, we have to have the help of the Holy Spirit to get this thing done. That's why Paul said, "But if the Spirit (Holy Spirit) of Him (God the Father) who raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He who raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit who dwells in you" (Rom. 8:11).

This tells us that sin is so powerful that it takes the same power to overcome this thing as it did to raise Jesus from the dead, which, of course, is the power of the Holy Spirit. Understanding that, we should come to the conclusion that our personal willpower is totally inadequate.

However, most Christians little understand the victory of the Cross and try to do this thing on their own, which always results in failure.

The majority of Christians know nothing about the Cross of Christ for sanctification. Justification delivers us from the penalty of sin, while sanctification delivers us from the power of sin. The Cross of Christ is as necessary for sanctification as it is for salvation (1 Cor. 1:18).

Because we are in this body of flesh, as Paul said, "We have not been perfected yet (Philippians 3:12-13)," and because we have an enemy within and an enemy without (the world, the flesh, and the Devil), you can still get tired of trusting. This is why the scripture says:

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1


JSM

 

[throughfaith]

I've been reviewing a lot of what I've seen over the last 40 years and putting it all together to try to make sense of it all and of God. I've seen Christians do some pretty sinful things over the years. But I have equally seen Christians do some tricky mental gymnastics in EXCUSING overtly sinful behavior in OTHERS.

I've seen a terrible perversion in human behavior which is this: if you do evil to others but just not do it to ME, I'm okay with you. I learned this perversion first hand when a neighbor crazed out on drugs who lived next door to us came after us with a torque wrench, and remained in the neighborhood after being arrested, and people talked to them and were still welcoming to them as long as ~they~ weren't the one experiencing negative effects from it. (It was one of the worst spiritual attacks I've had) You would think that people raising families would ostracize those doing things that were overtly anti-family and even dangerous. But they didn't. I learned a real lesson throughout that about how fickle people are. I think people were actually afraid that if they weren't nice to the couple on drugs, then their craziness would be turned on them.

But what was even a greater eye-opener was that Christians did this. A Christian sibling did something extremely evil and another Christian sibling kept associating with her as if nothing had happened. My whole world was reeling from the blow, and I was trying to gain my bearings it was so bad, and the other Christian sibling kept associating with the evil one as if nothing had happened. I saw the same law of human behavior was at work: as long as you're doing you're evil to another person and not to ME I'm okay with you.

We attended a church where the family who ran it was very corrupt. The youth pastor ran into a woman and killed her. He bragged that he knew all the cops in town and he wasn't charged. Not even with reckless driving or making a wrong turn. Nothing. Instead of shunning him or rebuking him no one did anything. Of course the family's reckless behavior continued and they ended up hurting a lot of people.

Has anyone else noticed this type of excusing of bad behavior? Christians seem to have the erroneous idea that this type of excusing of bad behavior doesn't matter. I looked for verses pertaining to it and all I could think of was one.

Howw much do you think that God holds this type of behavior accountable?

Proverbs 17:15

“He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.”

Always trust on Jesus not on other believers .

 

[oldethennew]

'Fear God and Keep His Commandments, for this is the whole duty of man'...
when this Truth becomes our hearts desire, then the world's fears/devilishness will have no power over us, -
we only become stronger and stronger and live our every day lives in His peace and comfort, security -
knowing and trusting that all of our decisions are according to His Will...

 

[saintrose]

I am so sorry you have had to deal with this and yes sadly this is a very real and much more common thing than people like to think, the issue is that the word Christian nowadays has become a title not a lifestyle.
Anyone can claim to be a Christian but when faced with such people this is where the stance really shows. It's actually very sickening how the title Christian is used, did you know it's actually very easy to become rich with the title Christian?

The formula is quite simples really start your own church have a decent study knowledge of scripture and preach a gospel that you know people will gladly follow it's that easy. The prosperity gospel is the most common one of these methods and even then if you study the statitics of doctrines that are the best well recieved and have the basic understanding of how the human mind works it is actually scary how easy it is used dupe people.

People who do these kind of things are very evil and often times get away with it, they know that people will follow anyone if they are told and taught what they want to hear no one wants to hear about not sinning or walking in the light after all this isn't about God it's about them it is about receiving and some people join such churches because life has failed them and pastors of this kind of doctrine prey on such people, many give testimonies of how the words of the pastor just spoke to them how God touched their hearts from it but you see this is basic brainwashing the person heard what they needed to hear it gave them hope and so in their minds God touched their hearts but in reality the pastor secretly knows how this method works and so people give and give and give bringing many more people into the church and the cycle continues.

Many also claim how they received what they prayed for be that financial gain that job they wanted healing ect. This again is psychology the brain is amazingly powerful when you believe in this doctrine this triggers the part of the brain that is coincided with the placebo effect even if your not saved this effect is actually amazingly effective you get that new job because you just have this glow about you people are attracted to such people they get a good vibe from this person

You get financial gain because your life in general is better the very fact a happy attitude tends to make ones life go their way is also how it works you are more happy you work harder and luck just seems to be on your side. people can even be healed because they believe they will even the brain itself if you convince yourself fully that you don't have a disease the body begins to naturally cure itself. Some could say well the ends justifies then means then but what pastors like this are doing is evil and are only doing it for their own gain and it disgusts me.

But make no mistake people who call themselves Christian and yet do evil to others and are kind to evil will be held accountable they say karma is a lets just say jerk but who is to say this isn't God's justice system? When you evil to others it always ends up biting you back

That's a good way to put it: Being a Christian today is a title and not a lifestyle. But in both cases I mentioned, I do believe that the Christian sibling and the Christian family were real Christians. But they seemed able to inflict hurt on others - as long as ~they~ weren't the one feeling it.

The Christian family were slammed bad and winded up having their name dragged through the mud. So God did show them that they weren't going to claim the title while living sinfully. They lost their business but I don't think they should have kept their church because they hurt so many people and didn't care. I still can't stand seeing it because it reminds me d theof how nasty the family was, and how they hurt a member of my family. They showed all the unbelievers in the area how horrible "Christians" are and probably drove many away from Christ.

The Christian sibling was able to make the mental leap of knowing the horrid evil the sibling did yet continued to associate with them. I just don't know how a believer is able to do that. If you knew a member from your church ran into someone and killed them - could you continue to be friends with them, never even considering the pain of the people who lost their loved one due to that person's recklessness? This doesn't even wade into the murky water of police who look the other way when someone recklessly takes the life of another. But in the above cases, the police, as well as Christians were able to look the other way. I just wonder if they have seared consciences where their conscience is no longer working.

 

[saintrose]

We are to win them by our love. Now when the term, evil-doers, is being employed, is this being applied to all outside the family in Jesus-Yeshua? If so it is a call to not work in the field given us by the Master.

We cannot leave the world whil in the flesh. It is very easy to practice loving all, even our enemies............

Here's another one I don't understand. I watched Dateline where a man named Jared Ingram was tried for murder of his ex-wife Sierra. His young children said they saw the father and mother through the door screaming and the father holding a white bottle. The prosecutor said it was probably bleach to clean up the mess. He joined a church and the church people rallied around him. I watched them all sit there and say "there is no way he could have murdered anybody!"

How did they know? Because he acted so nice?

Really how do they really know? They only met the man and knew him for about 6 months or a year.

I don't know how it happened but the jury found him not guilty. I thought he was guilty.

What if those (misguided?) church folks had eaten up his (feigned?) niceness and helped get him off?

I guess we'll never know.

 

[saintrose]

Yes we are to love them but if if you do such an evil act as what rose is going through and you are recieved as if nothing was wrong you don't learn your lesson and are likely to do it again

More often than not rebuke is more loving than to recieve them with open arms because if yopu love someone you want the best for them and if you do not correct them in their misdeeds and guide them to the way of righteousness is that really love or are you letting them do as they please?

I think sometimes Christians wrongfully forgive when they should hold accountable. I think the forgiveness doctrine has harmed many many more people than it has helped.

The corrupt family was never held accountable and hurt many many people. Before he left the church the pastor called us to come to his house. He sat for about two hours telling us all the wrongs this evil family has committed. He said there are people who refuse to step foot in a church today because of what that family has done.

So everyone was being nice and forgiving to them...but maybe too soon???

Think of what may have happened if member of the Christian community, instead of "forgiving" this corrupt family, ostracized them instead. Do you think that may have saved more people from getting hurt by them? Because the Christian Community was loving and forgiving the evil family was never motivated to change!

The youth pastor went on to kill a woman in a reckless driving incident.

The family went on to hurt a member of my family.

They went on to cheat a lot of people in the community wit corrupt real estate transactions.

They ultimately severely harmed young children in a real estate transaction.

Did Christians forgive this family too soon? Is this what God really wanted them to do?

Do you think maybe God would have had you rather follow the verse:


Proverbs 17:15

“He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.”

 

[saintrose]

We are implored to ”Love” even our enemies. This is not the normal type of love many are prone to exercise. This love is only available through the power of the Holy Spirit and it enables a Christian to do so without fear.

It shines a light on our personal situations that allows us to see the fractured souls of those doing the wrongs. Our forgiveness allows them to see the power of God’s love In action, but it doesn’t mean we become timid or drop our guard.

I agree that a person who does evil has a fractured soul, but I just wonder if the doctrine of forgiveness is overused.

 

[saintrose]

why would evil even phase God. He is above all and sees all.

as for being christian, what country are you from? some peoples countries version of christianity is very backwards...!
I can think of a few weird cults that call themselves christians, and claim they are good and in the right when they are evil and in the wrong. They are under a sttong delusion!

To me, that is not being christian no matter what kind of church they say they belong to.

The other thing is, you need strong armour of God when you are a christian so as not to be a victim of evil attack. If you lack this, you do need to know how to use it, so ask God.

we had some drug crazed families in our street that moved into a state house that was in our street. The poor neighbour that lived next door to them had to put up with their parties and rubbish and yelling and screaming and stolen vehicles. she got fed up not ever having a good nights sleep and moved house.

us neighbours couldnt do much, we rang the landlord, we complained to the state housing authority on her behalf, we reported any stuff going on to the police, we got community patrols, we prayed...but it took ages because we were not the landlords so had no power to evict them.

evil landlords who just take the money and dont care about what goes on with their tenants, who have criminal behaviours and are basically given a state subsidised home, we dont think much of but they are usually faceless agencies who are not accountable. It turned out it was a christian agency and we thought they would get onto these people, but a lot of these christians wouldnt even invite them to their own home but think its best to place them into cheap, substandard housing thats in a neighbourhood thats FAR away from them but right near others (who also may be christians but obviously arent wealthy)
I would say if you gonna give people housing you need to make sure the tenants are not turning the accomodation in to a drug den at the very least, nobody wants to live with a tinnie house next door!

but some people think as long as they are getting their rent, they dont care the means of how rhey get it. its very sad. those tenants need to be in rehab, not being allowed to rent a home so they can deal drugs.

I commend you for standing up for your neighbor. I think that you did the right thing - it was a shame that they forced the woman to move. It's really wrong to upend someone's life like that. It's very very selfish of someone to abuse a neighbor like that.

You just proved my point: the agency that SUBSIDIZED the housing to the lowlifes were CHRISTIANS.

I think Christians can do a lot of damage with their misguided "do-gooding"! They thought they were doing good when in reality they were doing EVIL because the family that got the subsidy didn't care one whit about the neighbor who had to put up with their bad habits and eventually was forced to move.

Christians can do much evil when they think they're doing good but in reality are doing evil.