Is Matthew 24 the rapture ?
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[addressing Post #142] ...except the text states "and they knew not UNTIL..." (which is not referring to Noah)... I believe this is in reference to "their" DISREGARDING the word of God via Noah (not that they had not at all heard the preaching of same, or hadn't observed the building of the ark all those years, and the parade of animal coming to it and boarding it... but that they did not HEED the word of God via Noah. He "prepared," they did not... they disregarded the word of God via Noah--[it will be the same for some in the future trib yrs, which is what I believe the entire immediate CONTEXT is making the point about]).
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[quoting and excerpt of Gaebelein, on 1Pet3... as an EXAMPLE of this]
"What, then, does the passage mean? It is very simple after all. He preached by the Spirit, or in the Spirit, that is, the same Spirit who raised Him from among the dead, the Holy Spirit of life and power, to the spirits who are now in prison. But when the preaching occurred they were not in prison. And who were they? All the wicked dead for 4,000 years? The text makes it clear that they are a special class of people. They were living in the days of Noah. It is incomprehensible how some of these teachers, misinterpreting this passage, can teach that it includes all the lost, or angels which fell, or the righteous dead. The Spirit of God preached to them, that is, the Spirit who quickened the body of Christ, the same Spirit preached to the generation of unbelievers in the days of Noah. The time of the preaching, then, did not occur between the death and resurrection of Christ, but it took place in Noah’s day. Christ was not personally, or corporeally present, just as He is not present in person in this age when the gospel is preached; His Spirit is here.
"So was He present by His Spirit in the days of Noah. It is written: “My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3). His Spirit was then on the earth. In long-suffering God was waiting for one hundred and twenty years while the ark was preparing. His Spirit preached then. But He needed an instrument. The instrument was Noah; in him was the Spirit of Christ and as the preacher of righteousness (2Peter 2:5) he delivered the warning message of an impending judgment to those about him, who did not heed the message, passed on in disobedience, were swept away by the deluge and are now the spirits in prison. As the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets (1Peter 1:11) testifying beforehand of the suffering of Christ and the glory that should follow, so the Spirit of Christ preached through Noah. This is the meaning of this passage, and any other is faulty and unscriptural."
-- https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/1_peter/3.htm
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[quoting and excerpt of Gaebelein, on 1Pet3... as an EXAMPLE of this]
"What, then, does the passage mean? It is very simple after all. He preached by the Spirit, or in the Spirit, that is, the same Spirit who raised Him from among the dead, the Holy Spirit of life and power, to the spirits who are now in prison. But when the preaching occurred they were not in prison. And who were they? All the wicked dead for 4,000 years? The text makes it clear that they are a special class of people. They were living in the days of Noah. It is incomprehensible how some of these teachers, misinterpreting this passage, can teach that it includes all the lost, or angels which fell, or the righteous dead. The Spirit of God preached to them, that is, the Spirit who quickened the body of Christ, the same Spirit preached to the generation of unbelievers in the days of Noah. The time of the preaching, then, did not occur between the death and resurrection of Christ, but it took place in Noah’s day. Christ was not personally, or corporeally present, just as He is not present in person in this age when the gospel is preached; His Spirit is here.
"So was He present by His Spirit in the days of Noah. It is written: “My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3). His Spirit was then on the earth. In long-suffering God was waiting for one hundred and twenty years while the ark was preparing. His Spirit preached then. But He needed an instrument. The instrument was Noah; in him was the Spirit of Christ and as the preacher of righteousness (2Peter 2:5) he delivered the warning message of an impending judgment to those about him, who did not heed the message, passed on in disobedience, were swept away by the deluge and are now the spirits in prison. As the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets (1Peter 1:11) testifying beforehand of the suffering of Christ and the glory that should follow, so the Spirit of Christ preached through Noah. This is the meaning of this passage, and any other is faulty and unscriptural."
-- https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/1_peter/3.htm
Not only does Matthew 24:39 indicate that those who are taken are the ungodly, but when Jesus comes like a thief, He will then take His Spirit from all the ungodly (Matthew 24:43).
Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
S
What are you suggesting? Are you seriously suggesting that He gathers his elect from the four winds, (N,E,S,W) from one end of heaven to the other, means the same as BRINGING the four winds against them just because "four winds" are mentioned in both passages?
I must be misunderstanding your point. No one would think that.
I must be misunderstanding your point. No one would think that.
No, I'm not saying they are "scattered" in this text, but "gathered together" (FROM that), and which passage (esp vv.29-31) is parallel with the following text (as I'm always point out in my posts, when on this Subject):
"12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off [/will thresh] from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. 13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.
[Matthew 24's [&25's] context is all about the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" [not "UP IN Heaven"] aka "the age [SINGULAR] to come"), which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth (where those ppl will be located, never having lifted off the earth--these come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture")--Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]...; NONE of those passages (and references) are about "our Rapture"... but ALL about His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (promised to them!)]
note to the readers: "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR] is NOT the same as:
--"the guests [PLURAL]"
--"the 10 [or even 5] Virgins/Bridesmaids [PLURAL]"
--"the Servants [PLURAL; of that specific time-period]"
--(nor... is the "FRIEND of the Bridegroom" the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" either)
"12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off [/will thresh] from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. 13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.
[Matthew 24's [&25's] context is all about the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" [not "UP IN Heaven"] aka "the age [SINGULAR] to come"), which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth (where those ppl will be located, never having lifted off the earth--these come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture")--Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]...; NONE of those passages (and references) are about "our Rapture"... but ALL about His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (promised to them!)]
note to the readers: "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR] is NOT the same as:
--"the guests [PLURAL]"
--"the 10 [or even 5] Virgins/Bridesmaids [PLURAL]"
--"the Servants [PLURAL; of that specific time-period]"
--(nor... is the "FRIEND of the Bridegroom" the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" either)
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What does a thief do? A thief takes something you have. When the Lord comes, He will reward the godly will great illumination, while the ungodly He will take away their current illumination, putting the nations in darkness (Isaiah 60:1-2).
Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. 2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. 2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
False. Matthew 24 can be divided into at least FIVE sections:
I. Prophecies of events between the first and second comings of Christ (vv 1-31)
II. The parable of the fig tree, and recognizing how the end is approaching (vv 32-34)
III. Date-setting for future events is futile and not acceptable (vv 35-36)
IV. Prophecy of the Rapture which is always imminent (vv 37-44)
V. Faithful and unfaithful servants of Christ and their rewards (vv 45-51)
I. Prophecies of events between the first and second comings of Christ (vv 1-31)
II. The parable of the fig tree, and recognizing how the end is approaching (vv 32-34)
III. Date-setting for future events is futile and not acceptable (vv 35-36)
IV. Prophecy of the Rapture which is always imminent (vv 37-44)
V. Faithful and unfaithful servants of Christ and their rewards (vv 45-51)
A number of us believe re: "the beginning of birth PANGS" (Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11, with v.12 going on to say "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE" and then proceeds to describe the events surrounding 70ad in vv.12-24)
...that "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" are the EQUIVALENT OF "the SEALS" of Rev6 (and that these have NOT YET begun to be opened, but WILL be when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" Isa3:13, Rev5:6 [Lam2:3-4 / 2Th2:7b-8a; 1Th5:2-3 (INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]")], at the START of the future trib yrs [FOLLOWING "our Rapture"])... rather than these describing what will unfold since the first century (again, Rev1:1/1:19c/4:1 "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" re: the FUTURE aspects of that Book)
...that "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" are the EQUIVALENT OF "the SEALS" of Rev6 (and that these have NOT YET begun to be opened, but WILL be when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" Isa3:13, Rev5:6 [Lam2:3-4 / 2Th2:7b-8a; 1Th5:2-3 (INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]")], at the START of the future trib yrs [FOLLOWING "our Rapture"])... rather than these describing what will unfold since the first century (again, Rev1:1/1:19c/4:1 "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" re: the FUTURE aspects of that Book)
One taken and the other left are the same person. It is our flesh that is taken and the other one (spirit) is left. If you notice and compare the parable of the weeds there wasn't anybody that was able to see the weeds among the wheat until the wheat sprouted. The reason the angels couldn't see the weeds is because it our sinful body and looks just like us and when our good works sprouted then the angels could see the difference between our bad works (flesh) and our good works (spirit) because they separated into two people (wheat, weeds) but the same person. So it is our sinful person (weed, flesh) who is taken to be destroyed and our spirit person (wheat, spirit) is left to be gathered into the barn.
Hi RevelationMan!
Well, in order to come to a right conclusion, we have to look at all of the related scriptures. If you will notice, the 'one taken' are being compared to those taken in the flood. So, the comparison would be wicked to wicked. Also, those mentioned are two men in the field and two women grinding with a hand mill. So, this is not a matter of the separation of flesh and spirit. Furthermore, the body without the spirit can't function.
The 'one taken, one left' is in reference to when Jesus comes at the end of the age. The parable of the weeds in Matthew 13 also refers to the end of the age, where the angels are the harvesters and at the end of the age will go out and first gather the weeds (one taken), then afterwards they will bring the wheat into his barn, which is entrance into the millennial kingdom. If we look at the comparison, the one taken are the wicked (unfaithful) taken in the flood and those that are left are the righteous (faithful) on the ark.
The parable never states that the harvesters/angels couldn't see the weeds, but in fact were the ones who noticed it. Furthermore, salvation is not about good works, bad works. The wheat represents the faithful on the earth at the time when the Lord returns to end the age.
Basically, the 'one taken' is represented by the weeds/wicked, who at the end of the age will be gathered by the angels and will be brought to where Armageddon is taking place, where they will be judged and then killed by the double-edged sword that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord, as revealed in Rev.19:15, 21. Then all of those birds that the angel will have gathered in Rev.19:17-18, will gorge themselves on their flesh.
All that said, the 'one taken' will be those (body, soul and spirit) who will have rejected Christ and who will have worshiped the beast, his image and received his mark and will be killed by that double-edged sword which is figuratively representing the word of God. (Eph. 6:17, Heb.4:12)
Well, in order to come to a right conclusion, we have to look at all of the related scriptures. If you will notice, the 'one taken' are being compared to those taken in the flood. So, the comparison would be wicked to wicked. Also, those mentioned are two men in the field and two women grinding with a hand mill. So, this is not a matter of the separation of flesh and spirit. Furthermore, the body without the spirit can't function.
The 'one taken, one left' is in reference to when Jesus comes at the end of the age. The parable of the weeds in Matthew 13 also refers to the end of the age, where the angels are the harvesters and at the end of the age will go out and first gather the weeds (one taken), then afterwards they will bring the wheat into his barn, which is entrance into the millennial kingdom. If we look at the comparison, the one taken are the wicked (unfaithful) taken in the flood and those that are left are the righteous (faithful) on the ark.
The parable never states that the harvesters/angels couldn't see the weeds, but in fact were the ones who noticed it. Furthermore, salvation is not about good works, bad works. The wheat represents the faithful on the earth at the time when the Lord returns to end the age.
Basically, the 'one taken' is represented by the weeds/wicked, who at the end of the age will be gathered by the angels and will be brought to where Armageddon is taking place, where they will be judged and then killed by the double-edged sword that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord, as revealed in Rev.19:15, 21. Then all of those birds that the angel will have gathered in Rev.19:17-18, will gorge themselves on their flesh.
All that said, the 'one taken' will be those (body, soul and spirit) who will have rejected Christ and who will have worshiped the beast, his image and received his mark and will be killed by that double-edged sword which is figuratively representing the word of God. (Eph. 6:17, Heb.4:12)
I believe this principle of one person divided into two beings is how judgment works whenever God is responsible. There is a physical body (mind, body, soul) and a spiritual body (mind, body, soul) and they look the alike. I agree when there is no judgment that the body cannot survive without the spirit. At the time of judgment, however, because there are two the physical body can be alive without the spiritual body but will only operate under basic impulses until it too dies because it cannot survive the trauma. So at the flood one was taken to Death and the other perished in the flood similar to Matthew 24 judgment but in this judgment the other one doesn't perish but goes on to live in the millennium. But the process in both judgments is very similar there were "two" in both cases.