When did the church begin ?

[TheDivineWatermark]

Some believe that Church began at different times to others . Perhaps i should have said ' the one body ' ?

Yeah, that's why I always try to specifically clarify, "the Church which is His body"... because I am not speaking of... and you are not, I believe, asking about... "the church in the wilderness" (described in Acts 7:37-43 etc, referring to OT times/events/persons), which is distinct...



[Eph1:20-23; 1Cor12:12b-13]

 

[throughfaith]

Yeah, that's why I always try to specifically clarify, "the Church which is His body"... because I am not speaking of... and you are not, I believe, asking about... "the church in the wilderness" (described in Acts 7:37-43 etc, referring to OT times/events/persons), which is distinct...



[Eph1:20-23; 1Cor12:12b-13]

Thankyou

 

[posthuman]

Some believe that Church began at different times to others . Perhaps i should have said ' the one body ' ?

the Magi who first worshipped Him after His birth were Gentile. not proselyte.
so if you want a demarcation where non-Jews are recognizing Him as King of Kings & Lord of Lords, and you won't accept Naaman, how about Matthew 2? if you reject that too have a look at John 4.

 

[posthuman]

Well, Christ said that He shall build His church...talking about His body...a future reference after His earthly life.

well, Peter told the church we 'are being built' -- ((1 Peter 2:5)) -- but the church was definitely existing at that time, so it's not necessarily the case that the church doesn't exist until it's complete.

 

[posthuman]

Yeah, that's why I always try to specifically clarify, "the Church which is His body"... because I am not speaking of... and you are not, I believe, asking about... "the church in the wilderness" (described in Acts 7:37-43 etc, referring to OT times/events/persons), which is distinct...



[Eph1:20-23; 1Cor12:12b-13]

who is Melchizedek?
not a Jew. not a son of Abraham -- but priest of the Most High, and King, and Abraham gives him obeisance, and Levi within his loins ((Heb. 7)).
is Melchizedek of 'His body' ? or some 3rd mystical people of God? if that's the case how long has this order been around? where did it spring up? who else was before him? anyone?
or is Melchizedek His preincarnate self? if he is, and Abraham ((with Judah in his loins)) gives him a tithe, then isn't Abraham functionally 'church' in the like figure?

 

[Blik]

Church has so many meanings that the word is no longer a nown for a specific place. For some it is a spiritual group of the people who accept Christ. Christ was told of way back in Leviicus. The sacrificial system is a shadow of Christ, and was used for the forgiveness of sin that Christ completed. It is from the beinning of our time.

As a word for a meeting place for people who worship the one true God, it was called a synagogue before Christ. Now a synagogue is a meeting place that doesn't accept Christ. A meeting place that accepts both the old and new testaments as equally from the Lord is called a Messianic Synagogue. All of these different churches have different beginnings.

 

[JaumeJ]

Well, Christ said that He shall build His church...talking about His body...a future reference after His earthly life.

Would you limit our Father's ability? Why must it be future? We live in what is deemed time, but our Maker is everywhere.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Was it Acts 2 ?

Indeed it was Acts 2. The word "church" is clearly mentioned in Acts 2:47: Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

While this directly applies to the ekklesia or assembly at Jerusalem, it intimates the beginning of the Church (the Body of Christ) also -- those who had received the gift of the Holy Spirit, therefore the gift of eternal life.

While Christ mentioned the Church before it came into existence, the Church could not begin until the Holy Spirit was poured out from Heaven on the day of Pentecost. Since Pentecost was a harvest feast, it prefigured the harvest of souls on that day through the preaching of the Gospel.

Believing Israel is called "the good olive tree" so the Church began with saved Jews. Indeed the commandment of Christ was to preach the Gospel in a specific progression: Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and then the rest of the world (beginning with the Roman empire). But Gentiles were added very shortly thereafter.

However, the "mystery" of the Church was only revealed to Paul later on, since it has not been revealed to the OT prophets, and even to the other apostles. But the Church was already in existence since 30 AD.

 

[throughfaith]

Indeed it was Acts 2. The word "church" is clearly mentioned in Acts 2:47: Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

While this directly applies to the ekklesia or assembly at Jerusalem, it intimates the beginning of the Church (the Body of Christ) also -- those who had received the gift of the Holy Spirit, therefore the gift of eternal life.

While Christ mentioned the Church before it came into existence, the Church could not begin until the Holy Spirit was poured out from Heaven on the day of Pentecost. Since Pentecost was a harvest feast, it prefigured the harvest of souls on that day through the preaching of the Gospel.

Believing Israel is called "the good olive tree" so the Church began with saved Jews. Indeed the commandment of Christ was to preach the Gospel in a specific progression: Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and then the rest of the world (beginning with the Roman empire). But Gentiles were added very shortly thereafter.

However, the "mystery" of the Church was only revealed to Paul later on, since it has not been revealed to the OT prophets, and even to the other apostles. But the Church was already in existence since 30 AD.

 

[throughfaith]

Yeah I agree that its After Acts 2 . I'm just working my way through the book of Acts again and trying to reconcile lots of things in the book .

 

[throughfaith]

Yeah, that's why I always try to specifically clarify, "the Church which is His body"... because I am not speaking of... and you are not, I believe, asking about... "the church in the wilderness" (described in Acts 7:37-43 etc, referring to OT times/events/persons), which is distinct...



[Eph1:20-23; 1Cor12:12b-13]

Can we say the ' which is his body ' is still the ' church ' prior to the inclusion of the gentiles ? I'm working my way through this area ,so i don't claim to have it all sewn up .

 

[JaumeJ]

Church, synagogue, assembly three words which may be used interchangeably. The Body of Yeshua-Jesus is probably the most accurately employed when referring to the members of them.

Also Temple and Tabernacle.

 

[throughfaith]

The Church is the body of Christ as defined in Scripture. There was no body to be in until after the resurrection. Paul states that there were those in the body of Christ before him. At what point after the resurrection?

That's a good point about ' those that were in christ before Paul ' .

 

[throughfaith]

The Church is the body of Christ as defined in Scripture. There was no body to be in until after the resurrection. Paul states that there were those in the body of Christ before him. At what point after the resurrection?

Does this rule out a ' mid acts ' dispensational position ?

 

[throughfaith]

Church, synagogue, assembly three words which may be used interchangeably. The Body of Yeshua-Jesus is probably the most accurately employed when referring to the members of them.

Also Temple and Tabernacle.

Yes i agree that the term ' the body ' is a more precise term .

 

[posthuman]

Church has so many meanings that the word is no longer a nown for a specific place. For some it is a spiritual group of the people who accept Christ. Christ was told of way back in Leviicus. The sacrificial system is a shadow of Christ, and was used for the forgiveness of sin that Christ completed. It is from the beinning of our time.

As a word for a meeting place for people who worship the one true God, it was called a synagogue before Christ. Now a synagogue is a meeting place that doesn't accept Christ. A meeting place that accepts both the old and new testaments as equally from the Lord is called a Messianic Synagogue. All of these different churches have different beginnings.

yes, the OP question really can't be answered without settling on a precise definition of what is meant by 'church'

 

[Nehemiah6]

Can we say the ' which is his body ' is still the ' church ' prior to the inclusion of the gentiles ?

Absolutely. The key is the gift of the Holy Ghost.

As to "the church in the wilderness", the KJV translators should never have used that term. The congregation of Israelites in the wilderness was primarily unbelieving Jews, and in fact the entire generation which came out of Egypt (with two individual exceptions) was wiped out for their unbelief.

 

[posthuman]

Yes i agree that the term ' the body ' is a more precise term .

if the saints are chosen in Him before the foundation of the world, and called His body, does it stand to reason His body precedes the foundation of the world?

 

[Nehemiah6]

yes, the OP question really can't be answered without settling on a precise definition of what is meant by 'church'

The Church is the Body of Christ (consisting of both redeemed Jews and Gentiles). That precise definition is already in Scripture.

For as the [human] body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the Body is not one member, but many. (1 Cor 12:12-14)

According to this passage it is the Holy Spirit who baptizes or immerses every believer into the Body of Christ. That is also simultaneous with the baptism with the Holy Ghost, where Christ pours out the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who believe.

 

[posthuman]

Yeah I agree that its After Acts 2 . I'm just working my way through the book of Acts again and trying to reconcile lots of things in the book .

what convinces you it's not until after Acts 2?