Replacement theology.

[eternally-gratefull]

Like I said, because you have that axiom that it was always by grace thru faith, apart from the law in both OT and NT, you will naturally interpret the instructions God gave in the OT, differently from me.

Paul stated in Romans 3:21

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

He is stating that it is revealed in the but now, but not revealed in time past.

So somehow, you are unable to put yourself in the shoes of someone who is living in time past, what he would have understood from God, what does it take to be the righteousness of God. (Luke 1:6)

Lol

NO ONE WAS EVER SAVED BY THE LAW

Gal 3
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed iseveryone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [d]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”)

again paul quoted moses

your argument is with moses not me

no one fulfilled the law, if they could Christ came in vein

 

[kaylagrl]

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Mmmm... probably not.

What was the red x for?

 

[Guojing]

Lol

NO ONE WAS EVER SAVED BY THE LAW

Gal 3
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed iseveryone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [d]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”)

again paul quoted moses

your argument is with moses not me

no one fulfilled the law, if they could Christ came in vein

Alright then, thanks for clarifying your doctrine.

 

[tribesman]

I posted the quotes from church "fathers", like Martin Luther, and making a point. This is there the attitude came from that God is finished with the Jews and the church is now the chosen people.

May we have that Luther quote again? Ty.

 

[tribesman]

Lol

NO ONE WAS EVER SAVED BY THE LAW

Gal 3
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed iseveryone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [d]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”)

again paul quoted moses

your argument is with moses not me

no one fulfilled the law, if they could Christ came in vein

I am happy to see that you still adhere to the biblical teaching of one single gospel through all times and seasons, whether in OT or NT. Noone are to be sidetracked by splittings of hairs.

 

[tribesman]

Since emotions rather than arguments from scripture have come up again, let us at least then be fair and see what some jewish sources say about Jesus, christians and gentiles (so we don't get it all wrong thinking it's a one sided-issue, with only one side hating and the other being victims of hatred).

VERSES FROM THE TALMUD ABOUT GENTILES:

"If a `goy' (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed." (Sanhedrin 58b)

"If a Jew finds an object lost by a `goy' it does not have to be returned." (Baba Mezia 24a)

"If a Jew murders a `goy' there will be no death penalty." (Sanhedrin 57a)

What a Jew steals from a `goy' he may keep." (Sanhedrin 57a)

"Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a `goy.'" (Baba Kamma 113a)

"All children of the `goyim' (Gentiles) are animals." (Yebamoth 98a)

"Girls born of the `goyim' are in a state of `niddah' (menstrual uncleanness!) from birth." (Abodah Zarah 36b)

MORE VERSES FROM THE TALMUD'S HATRED TOWARDS THE GENTILES:

"The `goyim' are not humans. They are beasts." (Baba Mezia 114b)

"If you eat with a `goy' it is the same as eating with a dog." (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)

"Even the best of the `goyim' should all be killed." (Soferim 15)

"Sexual intercourse between the `goyim' is like intercourse between animals." (Sanhedrin 74b)

"When it comes to a Gentile in peace times, one may harm him indirectly, for instance, by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice." (Shulkan Arukh, Yoreh De `ah, 158, Hebrew Edition only)

TALMUD'S BLASPHEMIES AGAINST JESUS CHRIST, THE VIRGIN MARY, & ALL CHRISTIANS:

"`Yeshu' (derogatory for `Jesus') is in Hell being boiled in hot excrement." (Gittin 57a)

['Yeshu' is an acronym for the Jewish curse, `May his (Jesus) name be wiped out forevermore.']

Yeshu (Jesus) was sexually immoral and worshipped a brick. (Sanhedrin 107b)

"Yeshu (Jesus) was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness and refusal to repent." (Sotah 47a)

"Miriam the hairdresser had sex with many men." (Shabbath 104b, Hebrew Edition only)

"She who was the descendant of princes and governors (the virgin Mary) played the harlot with carpenters." (Sanhedrin 106a)

"Christians who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations." (Rosh Hashanah 17a).

OK. So, there we go. We had some quotes from some roman-catholic church fathers, in no way representing non-catholic christians, and here we have some quotes from the Talmud, representing those who literally hold to same.

 

[Guojing]

I am happy to see that you still adhere to the biblical teaching of one single gospel through all times and seasons, whether in OT or NT. Noone are to be sidetracked by splittings of hairs.

Is that the teaching that goes “all those in the ot look forward to the cross, while those like us look backwards to the cross”?

 

[tribesman]

Is that the teaching that goes “all those in the ot look forward to the cross, while those like us look backwards to the cross”?

Sort of. It's the same principle. Foreseeing as well as retrospective. Old Testament believers were also saved by grace through faith, by the grace of God whom they trusted according to His own promises.

 

[Guojing]

Sort of. It's the same principle. Foreseeing as well as retrospective. Old Testament believers were also saved by grace through faith, by the grace of God whom they trusted according to His own promises.

Did faith for the ot saints required works?

 

[tribesman]

Did faith for the ot saints required works?

I believe that works were never a "requirement" for justification. As for justification no works on man's part are needed. Same then as now. However works of faith follows as a fruit of justification.

 

[Guojing]

I believe that works were never a "requirement" for justification. As for justification no works on man's part are needed. Same then as now. However works of faith follows as a fruit of justification.

You did agree with me that a gentile, in time past, needed to become a Jew in order to be included in the covenant of Israel and God right?

Have you changed your mind about that?

 

[tribesman]

You did agree with me that a gentile, in time past, needed to become a Jew in order to be included in the covenant of Israel and God right?

Have you changed your mind about that?

No. Haven't changed my mind. To me being a jew in OT times does not mean equal to rabbinic judaism. Mind to tell what you are shooting at?

 

[Guojing]

No. Haven't changed my mind. To me being a jew in OT times does not mean equal to rabbinic judaism. Mind to tell what you are shooting at?

The point was not obvious? In time past, can a gentile be saved by God, without becoming a Jew?

Did Paul meant what he said in Ephesians 2:11-12?

 

[tribesman]

The point was not obvious? In time past, can a gentile be saved by God, without becoming a Jew?

Did Paul meant what he said in Ephesians 2:11-12?

And what was implied with becoming a jew then? Salvation by works?

The main issue here is that you hold to that there are different gospels between the "dispensations"; is it not?

Not exactly sure whether this actually fit into the replacement theology thread.

 

[Guojing]

And what was implied with becoming a jew then? Salvation by works?

The main issue here is that you hold to that there are different gospels between the "dispensations"; is it not?

Not exactly sure whether this actually fit into the replacement theology thread.

Ephesians 2:11-12 had Paul clearly stating that gentiles were without God and without hope.

The only covenant that God had with man, after mount Sinai, was thru the nation Israel.

How else can a gentile show faith in what God provided for, in his grace in time past?

 

[Nehemiah6]

...your trying to replace God's chosen people with Jews that hate God.

That is quite an absurd statement. Jews or Gentiles that hate God have no part in His Kingdom. So it is only those who have been genuinely saved who will be in the Kingdom of God.

 

[Lanolin]

its not replacement

when you graft a tree it doesnt get 'replaced'. what happens is you take one living branch and insert it into another which is already growing with roots in the ground.

You dont grow another tree, you dont dig up the old one and 'replace' it.

Then it all grows together as ONE tree.

Its Gardening folks.

 

[tribesman]

Ephesians 2:11-12 had Paul clearly stating that gentiles were without God and without hope.

The only covenant that God had with man, after mount Sinai, was thru the nation Israel.

How else can a gentile show faith in what God provided for, in his grace in time past?

Did I ever gainsay this? Are we splitting hairs? The principle has been the same all along: by grace through faith. Even in the days when circumcision was obligatory for gentiles who converted. Now, the change is in the element of the means of the outward sign of the covenant; water baptism instead of circumcision. The foundational principle however, has not changed. There be other changes too, however same principle applies.

 

[Guojing]

Did I ever gainsay this? Are we splitting hairs? The principle has been the same all along: by grace through faith. Even in the days when circumcision was obligatory for gentiles who converted. Now, the change is in the element of the means of the outward sign of the covenant; water baptism instead of circumcision. The foundational principle however, has not changed.

As I have always said, it was always by grace thru faith.

My point was that, in time past, faith required a work to be done. Hebrews 11 gave many examples of the different types of works God required from Man.

If a gentile had to become a Jew in order to be saved in time past, that is considered a work too.

But as Paul said in Romans 3:21 and 4:5, its only in the "but now" time period, that the righteousness of God thru faith, apart from works, has been revealed.

And in the age to come, faith will once again require works, such as feeding and giving shelter to the Jews, not taking the mark of the beast, enduring to the end, and so on.

 

[tribesman]

I see the problem of hammering home this simple biblical truth when stuck into confusing dispensational error system.