When did the church begin ?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#101
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#101
throughfaith said:
John 7
37¶In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified .)
John 16 .7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Acts 11
14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Click to expand...
to my thinking this doesn't contradict Ezekiel 2-3, instead, it makes Ezekiel 2-3 AMAZING

i just love how it reads, the Spirit entered him and set him on his feet!! ♥
how the Spirit enabled him to hear Who spoke to him. how in chapter 2, it's the LORD speaking to him - and in chapter 3 it's the Spirit speaking to him, equivocating His own words with the words of the LORD God.

we've always got to remember John 5:39 when looking in the OT -- all these things in addition to true historical records are testimonies of Jesus Christ

this is another trinitarian proof text, too :)
 
GaryA

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
#102
Aug 10, 2019
9,834
4,320
113
mywebsite.us
#102
throughfaith said:
So was corneilus just being ' empowered 'when he received the Holy Spirit ?
Click to expand...
Did Cornelius start the church? :rolleyes:

Stay on topic - which, I believe, is about when the church began.

Whose body/church was it? The Lord Jesus Christ.

Who started it? The Lord Jesus Christ.

When did it start? When Jesus was baptized - when he began his ministry - which was "all about" the church.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#105
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#105
GaryA said:
Did Cornelius start the church? :rolleyes:

Stay on topic - which, I believe, is about when the church began.

Whose body/church was it? The Lord Jesus Christ.

Who started it? The Lord Jesus Christ.

When did it start? When Jesus was baptized - when he began his ministry - which was "all about" the church.
Click to expand...
The Holy Spirit is not baptising people into the ' body ' until Acts 2 .
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#106
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#106
Are all aware that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God? Jesus-Yeshua is the Word; He is God.

The teaching of all begins with "In the Beginning."

If our teaching begins with this, we are learning from our Savior.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#108
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#108
Is the answer here?
Corinthians 12:13

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#110
Oct 13, 2011
4,622
282
83
#110
throughfaith said:
John 7
37¶In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified .)
John 16 .7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Acts 11
14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Click to expand...
There is a difference in that from that time onward the whole congregation received the Spirit. This does not mean that those Saints that received the Spirit in OT times were not also indwelt by the Spirit.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#111
Jul 24, 2016
7,582
3,616
113
#111
throughfaith said:
What verses pertain to when the church began ?
Was it before the cross?
Was it Just after the cross ?
Was it Acts 2 ?
was it after Acts 2 ?
Click to expand...
The Church began the moment the Holy Spirit entered the Apostles on the Day of Penticost..
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#112
Oct 13, 2011
4,622
282
83
#112
Adstar said:
The Church began the moment the Holy Spirit entered the Apostles on the Day of Penticost..
Click to expand...
What do ya make out of Acts 7:37-38?

Acts 7:

37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
Click to expand...
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#113
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#113
tribesman said:
There is a difference in that from that time onward the whole congregation received the Spirit. This does not mean that those Saints that received the Spirit in OT times were not also indwelt by the Spirit.
Click to expand...
They were not sealed UNTO the day of redemption. Evidenced by the Holy Spirit departing from them in numerous places .
1 John 4:13 - Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

The ' in Him ' The Holy Spirit baptising people into the ' body ' . Is a mystery not known before revealed to Paul. So to suggest that all this was happening in the OT is silly.
Colossians 1:27

“To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:”
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#115
Jul 24, 2016
7,582
3,616
113
#115
tribesman said:
What do ya make out of Acts 7:37-38?
Click to expand...
When someone asks, When did the church start.. I assume they are asking when did the Christian Church start.. And so i answered as i did..

In the context of John the baptist he was a prophet from God.. He looked forward to the fulfillment of prophecy and was Glad to see the Lamb of God who was to take away the sins of the World.. But He did not live to see the Christian Church founded on earth.. He was executed.. But as a man of faith in God he looked forward to the fulfillment of the promise of the Messiah and so believed and had faith in Jesus..
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#116
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
1,130
113
New Zealand
#116
throughfaith said:
Is the answer here?
Corinthians 12:13

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
Click to expand...
Yup.. Paul baptized by water immersion in reference to the local body he joined .. The Corinthians baptized by immersion in water in reference to the body at Corinth.
 
GaryA

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
#117
Aug 10, 2019
9,834
4,320
113
mywebsite.us
#117
throughfaith said:
The Holy Spirit is not baptising people into the ' body ' until Acts 2 .
Click to expand...
If we believe that a person is indwelt by the Holy Spirit the moment they are saved (indeed, it is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that "seals" them unto salvation), then this statement is not true.

GaryA said:
Now that is an interesting statement worth considering... :)
Click to expand...
I am prayerfully considering it...

throughfaith said:
Is the answer here?
Corinthians 12:13

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
Click to expand...
There is [at least] a partial answer here. I would even say most of it. However, it may be that the full [complete] answer (to the title question of this thread) is not here. I believe part of the answer may be found in the ministry of Christ.

For the same reason that Jesus did not violate the Law by eating corn on the Sabbath (neither did His followers who were with him that did the same - this is important), I believe 'the church' existed even before Pentecost - and that, Jesus Himself started it - beginning on the day of His baptism (as the 'head' of His church) - and continuing after that throughout His ministry.

I definitely believe in what the verse above is saying. The verse (and entire chapter) is included in a discussion regarding 'the church' here:

http://mywebsite.us/ABA/Topics/Local_New_Testament_Church.html

However, in terms of 'identity' - who and what the church is - I believe there is "more to it" than what is contained in the verse above.

I believe the verse above is referring to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - into which we are all 'immersed' and caused "to drink" of.

wattie said:
Yup.. Paul baptized by water immersion in reference to the local body he joined .. The Corinthians baptized by immersion in water in reference to the body at Corinth.
Click to expand...
The verse above is not referring to water baptism.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#118
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#118
tribesman said:
What do ya make out of Acts 7:37-38?
Click to expand...
That word "church" should really have been translated as "congregation" or "assembly", since it was definitely NOT the church. While I do not subscribe to the ESV, it has translated the word correctly:

English Standard Version
This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the angel who spoke to him at Mount Sinai, and with our fathers. He received living oracles to give to us.

While God was speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, the Israelites were worshiping the Golden Calf, and would have all bee wiped out, had it not been for Moses.
 
GaryA

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
#119
Aug 10, 2019
9,834
4,320
113
mywebsite.us
#119
In every place in the Bible, the word 'church' literally means 'assembly'. You have to determine from the context what assembly it is referring to.

Another word is 'baptize' (and its various forms). It means 'immerse'. Context determines the nature of the immersion that is being referred to.
 
B

billabong

Member
#120
Jun 5, 2018
93
59
18
#120
throughfaith said:
What verses pertain to when the church began ?
Was it before the cross?
Was it Just after the cross ?
Was it Acts 2 ?
was it after Acts 2 ?
Click to expand...
My thinking is that the church officially began when Paul returned from spending about 3 years at Mt Sinai.

The mysteries of the church age (the gospel of grace), hidden in the mind of God until it was revealed it to Paul (at Mount Sinai). for dispensation mainly to the gentiles.


(Mt. Sinai - Moses - Law - Nation of Israel)

The Cross

(Mt. Sinai - Paul - Grace - Gentile world)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.