WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION IN FEAR AND TREMBLING.

[Ogom]

Its still old testament.

2 Ti 3:15-17

15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness

17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…

 

[Ogom]

John is not OT

2 Ti 3:15-17

15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness

17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…

 

[throughfaith]

2 Ti 3:15-17

15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness

17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…

I agree 👍

 

[throughfaith]

Of course it is . The new testament begins with Jesus's death . Not the Heading printed in the bible.

Hebrews 9
15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16¶For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

 

[JaumeJ]

At that time . Pre cross .

When we do not consider any responses we ask for, we are not ever going to learn.

 

[throughfaith]

My Savior, the Savior of all who are saved, did say no man can come unto me unless the Father sends him to Me.
Paraphresed, ergo, no quotes.

He also said to Noah that the flood would come and salvation would be on the Ark . Are people saved today by boarding an Ark ( literally ) ? No .
Do you have a verse after the cross that says the father is drawing the same way ?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

John 12:32 - "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself."

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus-Yeshua is our Ark.

 

[throughfaith]

Jesus-Yeshua is our Ark.

Yes but we don't actually , physically get on a boat .

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Let me "chime" in on this issue and point out the immediate context of what the Apostle Paul is telling the Philippian "BELIEVERS." The context is "NOT" about working out your salvation to get saved.

Starting at vs 2-3, "make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. Vs3, "Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of your REGARD ONE ANOTHER AS MORE IMPORTANT THAN HIMSELF." Vs4, "do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interest of others."

Paul then uses Jesus Christ as the perfect example of putting people first or ahead of Himself starting at vs5 by saying, "have this attitude in yourselves that was also in Christ Jesus. Now please pay attention to vs6 because it proves the deity of Jesus Christ.

Vs6, who, although, (or in spite of the fact) that He was always existed as God or in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped." Vs7, "but emptied Himself, (This means that Jesus Christ did not take advantage of Him being God by not using His prerogatives as God) but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men." (Btw, and this is important, Jesus Christ did not empty Himself of His deity, that would be impossible, God cannot become not God.)

So the Apostle Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit decided to throw in the fact that Jesus Christ who has always been, or in the form of God took on another form, that of a human being/man. Vs8, And being found in appearanceas a man, He humbled Himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

Another example by Paul to show the Philippian believers how they should be obedient to what he's telling them. Now, having said all this we get to Philippians 2:12. Vs12, "So then my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence work out your salvation with fear and trembling;"

In other words, work out the solution to your problems or the deliverance of your problems. That is to say quit being selfish, conceited, not of the same mind, not looking out for you own interest BUT have the same mind and maintaining the same love. Put others first just as Jesus Christ did.

Why? Philippians 2:13, "for (or because) it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." Paul is not done with them. Vs14, "Do all things without grumbling or disputing; that you may prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, childres of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation among whom you appear as lights in the world." (Or in this upholstered cesspool we call earth). And yes, the Greek word sozo has the basic meaning of saved/salvaton, but it can also mean deliver/deliverance, heal or made whole. Does this make sense to you?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

This does make sense, and it is still working out your own deliverance, which is not eternal.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Context tells you which is which, not theologians.

I agree, and you know that I do not consult theologians.

 

[throughfaith]

This does make sense, and it is still working out your own deliverance, which is not eternal.

Working out your own ' deliverance ' is counter to Paul's entire message. Paul is encouraging them to not be selfish but selfless in the furtherance of the gospel. We are to not be focused on our selves but others for the Gospel sake.

 

[bluto]

This does make sense, and it is still working out your own deliverance, which is not eternal.

It makes perfect sense and the only reason you can't see it is because your still feeding on milk instead of meat. I just read what you said below, you know, "I'm not interested in what theologians have to say." Really! Why do you think the Apostle Paul mentioned teachers at 1 Corinthians 12:28? "And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, THIRD TEACHERS etc.

I'll also bet your one of those guys who loves to quote 1 John 2:27. You know, "And as for you, the annointing which you received from Him abides in you, AND YOU HAVE NO NEED FOR ANYONE TO TEACH YOU; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." How about doing a little homework for a change in order to understand the point of the verse. It might be worth the effort to read what Scholars and other Theologians have to say about the verse.

Now, getting back to Philippians 2:12. The "jist" of the verse is just as I stated for the Philippians to work out your salvation/deliverance of your problems by following the example of humilty and selflessness of Jesus Christ. This is achieved by putting others first and quit complaining and thinking only of yourselves.

The Greek word for salvation is "soterian" and it can mean deliverance. In fact the same exact word is used by Paul at Philippians 1:19, "For I know that this shall turn out for my "soterian/DELIVERANCE through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ." Delivered from what? He wanted the Philippians believers to interceede on his behalf to be delivered from prison. Also notice what he says at Philippians 1:27-29. Why at vs 27 does he start out with, "Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ; so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I may hear of your that you are standing firm in ONE SPIRIT, WITH ONE MIND striving TOGETHER for the faith of the gospel."

Lastly, don't take personally my admonitions to you. I was being hard on you on purpose and not to "belittle" you. I've been a Christian 59 years now so I do know a little about what I'm talking about.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It makes perfect sense and the only reason you can't see it is because your still feeding on milk instead of meat. I just read what you said below, you know, "I'm not interested in what theologians have to say." Really! Why do you think the Apostle Paul mentioned teachers at 1 Corinthians 12:28? "And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, THIRD TEACHERS etc.

I'll also bet your one of those guys who loves to quote 1 John 2:27. You know, "And as for you, the annointing which you received from Him abides in you, AND YOU HAVE NO NEED FOR ANYONE TO TEACH YOU; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." How about doing a little homework for a change in order to understand the point of the verse. It might be worth the effort to read what Scholars and other Theologians have to say about the verse.

Now, getting back to Philippians 2:12. The "jist" of the verse is just as I stated for the Philippians to work out your salvation/deliverance of your problems by following the example of humilty and selflessness of Jesus Christ. This is achieved by putting others first and quit complaining and thinking only of yourselves.

The Greek word for salvation is "soterian" and it can mean deliverance. In fact the same exact word is used by Paul at Philippians 1:19, "For I know that this shall turn out for my "soterian/DELIVERANCE through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ." Delivered from what? He wanted the Philippians believers to interceede on his behalf to be delivered from prison. Also notice what he says at Philippians 1:27-29. Why at vs 27 does he start out with, "Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ; so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I may hear of your that you are standing firm in ONE SPIRIT, WITH ONE MIND striving TOGETHER for the faith of the gospel."

Lastly, don't take personally my admonitions to you. I was being hard on you on purpose and not to "belittle" you. I've been a Christian 59 years now so I do know a little about what I'm talking about.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Well, I have a few years on you, I am 86, and have been born again as far back as I can remember, but our age does not determine that we know what we are talking about. I attend church where they have preachers, and the scriptures tell me that I should be like the bold Berians, and go home to compare what I have heard, to the scriptures, to see if they harmonize.

I have witnessed sincere children of God being led away from the truths contained in the gospel by the persuasion of other men's false interpretation of the scriptures. Eph 4:14, That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the slight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

I am a deacon in the church, and have called out some in the pulpit for preaching a false doctrine.

 

[Magenta]

Yes but we don't actually , physically get on a boat .

Right... it's a ship Relationship

 

[Magenta]

John 12:32 - "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself."

John 12:31-32

 

[Scribe]

this does not belong in the verse. And make the truth of none affect, and is A lie
separation from your fellowship with God) and is a LIE


This is doing what this says, and this verse spells it out for US
Acts 13:10 And said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, [thou] child of the devil, [thou] enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?


Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
ROMANS 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

ROMANS 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of
righteousness.

1 COR 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak [this] to your shame.

EPH 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
EPH 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth
EPH 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

PHIL 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

1 TIM 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

2 TIM
3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Hebrews 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Hebrews12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
THIS is telling US that with out HOLINESS, NO MAN SHALL SEE THE LORD.

1 THESS 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. [chastening us to get us righteous]

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy [are ye]: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
This tells us that the saved is righteous, even as YESUAH is righteous.
1 JOHN 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. { This is telling us if we are not righteous, WE ARE OF THE DEVIL }

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. To her = the Church
The RED is telling the saints that they are Righteous,

2 COR 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

THIS should be enough to let us know that we haft to have RIGHTEOUSNESS TO MAKE IT TO HEAVEN

You 'haft' to quit using that word if you want people to take you seriously.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

his does not belong in the verse. And make the truth of none affect, and is A lie
separation from your fellowship with God) and is a LIE

1 John 1:5-10, This then is the message we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You've definitely got things mixed up . I don't even know what your saying . Are you confusing ' deliverance ' in today Old testament sense . Where Israel was delivered from famine or war ect ?

Jacob, surname Israel, all of the nation of Israel is not of Jacob/Israel, includes all of God's elect, which are the ones that Christ died for, and are the ones that God will quicken to a spiritual life, and are the ones that Jesus will come back to collect at the last day and take to heaven.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I don't believe they are working out anything in an eternal or temporal sense. This is about the furtherance of the Gospel. Its about ' working " For others and not themselves, FOR the furtherance of the message .Selflessly not selfishly. Adding ' for rewards ' or ' for deliverance ' is contrary to the focus. I believe in ' rewards ' for believers and certainly these Paul is speaking to would be rewarded later .

They are not working anything out in an eternal sense, and it does include working for others and not for themselves. It also includes repentance and forgiveness which is their reward at the time of their repentance.