Why it will be a pre-trib rapture and why the rapture takes place.

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pottersclay

Guest
#401
#401
Ahwatukee said:
Hello! No, I'm talking about those who came out of the tombs and went into the city after Christ had resurrected, as well as those Christ raised from the dead prior to that.

Some have been saying that the patriarchs and other OT saints have already been resurrected in their immortal and glorified bodies, which I disagree with. I have been saying that Christ alone is the only human being to be raised in His immortal and glorified body and that the church (those at His coming) is next.
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It would be hard for me to believe that after even a month in the grave the body would be able to stand let alone walk.
Now I do agree that those who were raised prior by command but not those saints that died in faith after the crucifixion.
I consider them first fruits also in Abrahams bosom and I believe that that was a sign of proof of life of the preaching of Jesus prior.
Reason why?
Christ died and rose according to scripture. Those scriptures also follow the appointed times of God.
Jesus came to set the captives free, spiritually as well as physically and mentally.
He being the high priest had not yet presented the wheat sheath offering which he is.
This is why Mary could not touch him on the first day. Jesus had to present himself before he could present the first fruits. The wheat offering is presented on the first day of the week.
Notice 8 days later the believers could handle him but yet his physical Ascension wasn't till 40 days after the resurrection. Which gives us a broken omer count. I believe that the omer count will be fulfilled when the time of the gentiles has come to pass.
The wave offering is in-between the wheat offering and the counting of the omer which is waved in the air by the high priest before the congregation. This in my opinion is the rapture which paul was looking at.
Now untill this is all fulfilled no other harvesting is to take place.
Conclusion.
The dead that day seen were earth bound untill the Lord Jesus as the high priest and the wheat offering could present himself on the first day.

I know that's alot to consider brother as this is the first time that I disagreed with you.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#402
#402
Notice rev 5 has trumpet sound that John heard. I believe it is the feast of trumpets to begin.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#403
#403
Now consider this paul mentions the hall of faith. Now look at the list of saints he mentions.
Which one of these knew jesus personally? Which one was born again as you view it.
Even rehab the harlot is mentioned yet scripture tells us there in heaven with God.

This is what I mean you can't Christianize Judaism.
Did abraham know jesus as Messiah....did moses....lot?

We enter in by faith by the works of Christ. He is the high priest. The goel (redeemer).
It's all about Jesus.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#404
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
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#404
pottersclay said:
Now consider this paul mentions the hall of faith. Now look at the list of saints he mentions.
Which one of these knew jesus personally? Which one was born again as you view it.
Even rehab the harlot is mentioned yet scripture tells us there in heaven with God.

This is what I mean you can't Christianize Judaism.
Did abraham know jesus as Messiah....did moses....lot?

We enter in by faith by the works of Christ. He is the high priest. The goel (redeemer).
It's all about Jesus.
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Every single one of them knew Jesus that's why they were in the hall of faith.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#405
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
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#405
pottersclay said:
It would be hard for me to believe that after even a month in the grave the body would be able to stand let alone walk.
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Pottersclay, we are talking about God here, right? You know, all things are possible for Him, nothing is impossible? Therefore, it is no great thing for God to raise the dead. Why would you think that they would have a problem standing?

That said, it is no great thing for God to reanimate the bodies of those who have died regardless of who long it's been. Remember, when the resurrection takes place

So my contention remains that, those who came out of their tombs after Christ's resurrection, did so in their mortal bodies and died again. And that no other human has been raised immortal and glorified, except for Jesus and the entire church is next.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#406
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
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#406
Ahwatukee said:
Pottersclay, we are talking about God here, right? You know, all things are possible for Him, nothing is impossible? Therefore, it is no great thing for God to raise the dead. Why would you think that they would have a problem standing?

That said, it is no great thing for God to reanimate the bodies of those who have died regardless of who long it's been. Remember, when the resurrection takes place

So my contention remains that, those who came out of their tombs after Christ's resurrection, did so in their mortal bodies and died again. And that no other human has been raised immortal and glorified, except for Jesus and the entire church is next.
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Play it out.
They rose from the dead and died 20 years later.

So where is Noah, moses,daniel,David ,Elijah etc in the fledgling NT church?
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#407
#407
Ahwatukee said:
Pottersclay, we are talking about God here, right? You know, all things are possible for Him, nothing is impossible? Therefore, it is no great thing for God to raise the dead. Why would you think that they would have a problem standing?

That said, it is no great thing for God to reanimate the bodies of those who have died regardless of who long it's been. Remember, when the resurrection takes place

So my contention remains that, those who came out of their tombs after Christ's resurrection, did so in their mortal bodies and died again. And that no other human has been raised immortal and glorified, except for Jesus and the entire church is next.
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Amen God is a God of the impossible. But not a God out of order.
Paul was a Sanhedrin jew very knowledgeable in scripture yet God sent him to teach the gentiles.
You got to ask yourself why.
When you study the appointed times jesus is the focal point of every offering and feast.
Even the day of the Lord is a appointed time.
Paul points to these feast days of God in his writings over and over again.

1..Were not jews but are grafted in, we are saved by grace through faith by a jewish Messiah.
2..john tells us we have a advocate, mediator, that's a goel.
3...jesus is God's Passover lamb.
4...jesus is our high priest.
5...jesus is the bread of life...jewish festival.
ECT.
Jesus said nothing in the word of God shall pass away till all is fulfilled.
The temple will be built again for the Lord to Tabernacle once more with his people.
Feast of Tabernacles is the ending of the appointed times...what a coincidence.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#410
Nov 23, 2013
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#410
pottersclay said:
How did they know him?
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1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

That verse is choked full of doctrine.
 
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Guojing

Banned
#411
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#411
KJV1611 said:
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

That verse is choked full of doctrine.
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That verse doesn't mean the OT saints knew Christ Jesus and understood that he would die for their sins.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#412
Nov 23, 2013
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#412
Guojing said:
That verse doesn't mean the OT saints knew Christ Jesus and understood that he would die for their sins.
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The spirit of Christ testified to them about the sufferings of Christ and the glory of what that would bring. How can you say they didn't understand that he would die for their sins?

The prophecy of those things happen are all over the Old Testament.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#413
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#413
KJV believer's at least those of us who actually believe every word as it's written, we believe that the Spirit of Christ is the Scripture in the verses being discussed.

NASB believer's believe the Spirit of Christ is literally a spirit, like a ghost.

One of those beliefs is wrong.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#415
#415
brightfame52 said:
By Faith. Abraham seen His Day by Faith Rejoiced and was Glad Jn 8 56

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
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Excellent...we enter in through faith. By grace we are saved through faith this is not your own doing but a gift from God.

Israel will be restored. The temple will be rebuilt. In fact egypt and Assyria will come into play as God moves and they also will worship the Lord.
Jews and gentile alike will come together in one accord to serve the living God.
Make no mistake about it.... it it will come to pass.
Pre trib rapture is found in the offerings (wave offering) which is waved in the air by the high priest.
There is no room for theology in God's appointed times.
President trump did 2 things by the hand of God that are prophetic.
The Abraham accord and the minority rights act on behalf of the Jewish people.
Look to the sky saints our time has almost come to a close for our mighty God has now set his sights on Israel .
Most exciting times saints most exciting times.
 
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Guojing

Banned
#416
Jan 12, 2019
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#416
KJV1611 said:
The spirit of Christ testified to them about the sufferings of Christ and the glory of what that would bring. How can you say they didn't understand that he would die for their sins?

The prophecy of those things happen are all over the Old Testament.
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You heard of this saying "everyone is a great trader, on hindsight"?

Its very easy to claim they must have understood then, like us who were born years after the events happen and have the benefit of the completed scriptures.

If they understood, Peter would not have denounced Christ just before he died.

If they understood, they would have been camping outside the tomb counting down to his resurrection.
 
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