Some things about the law that need explaining.

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Jan 12, 2019
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hi -- you never did answer why you think a covenant expressly including Israel, with language expressly inclusive of the people broken into scattered groups, must be exclusively with them -- especially in light of such things as Hosea 2 (("in that day" a covenant expressly with Israel and expressly with all living souls on earth)) and Zechariah 11:10-14 ((the breaking of the "covenant" expressly with "all people" directly & clearly tied to the cross and the second staff being called the brotherhood of Judah & Israel))?
. . . ?
We are neither the house of Israel Nor the house of Judah. So the new covenant is not for us.

We are the body of Christ, not national Israel
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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We are neither the house of Israel Nor the house of Judah. So the new covenant is not for us.

We are the body of Christ, not national Israel
Wednesday Thursday Friday?

By what means do you propose to be "the body of Christ" if not through the new covenant in His blood?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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we In the body of Christ are not given the same physical blessings that Israel had, for obedience

Ours is spiritual, in the heavens
I think you are mistaken. In Christ's time there was a hearisy of gnostics, they said that the Lord was only spiritual. Yet even the Lord's prayer is to be tought of as both spiritual and physical at the same time. When the Lord speaks of abundance, that is to be read as both physical and spiritual. When the Lord saved the children from slavery in Egypt, it was both physical and spiritual. Much scripture is a physical history, that history explains the spiritual facts of the Lord, but it is also a physical history. We are to open our hearts AND minds to the Lord, not limit Him.

When we give, we are blessed, when we steal we go to jail.
 

echoChrist

Active member
Dec 22, 2020
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I think you are mistaken. In Christ's time there was a hearisy of gnostics, they said that the Lord was only spiritual. Yet even the Lord's prayer is to be tought of as both spiritual and physical at the same time. When the Lord speaks of abundance, that is to be read as both physical and spiritual. When the Lord saved the children from slavery in Egypt, it was both physical and spiritual. Much scripture is a physical history, that history explains the spiritual facts of the Lord, but it is also a physical history. We are to open our hearts AND minds to the Lord, not limit Him.

When we give, we are blessed, when we steal we go to jail.
Let me help you prove your right with the word Blik (Corinthians 10:16-18) 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. 18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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We are neither the house of Israel Nor the house of Judah. So the new covenant is not for us.

We are the body of Christ, not national Israel
*cough*

Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, Who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
(2 Corinthians 3:5-6)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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*cough*

Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, Who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
(2 Corinthians 3:5-6)
Testament or covenant? Covenants can be made without death, however, testaments are in force after the death of the testator. Is there not a difference?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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Testament or covenant? Covenants can be made without death, however, testaments are in force after the death of the testator. Is there not a difference?
these things aren't English. they're Greek.
we don't speak Greek. we need to study. we need knowledge. we need help.


in Greek, the actual given language of these scriptures, it is the word diathéké both in 2 Corinthians 3:6 and identically in Hebrews 9:15 & 16, and also exactly the same ((Greek, the actual language of the epistles & gospels)) word in Luke 22:20 & in Hebrews 8:8. same word. one word.

https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/3-6.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/9-15.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/9-16.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/luke/22-20.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/8-8.htm
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
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these things aren't English. they're Greek.
we don't speak Greek. we need to study. we need knowledge. we need help.


in Greek, the actual given language of these scriptures, it is the word diathéké both in 2 Corinthians 3:6 and identically in Hebrews 9:15 & 16, and also exactly the same ((Greek, the actual language of the epistles & gospels)) word in Luke 22:20 & in Hebrews 8:8. same word. one word.

https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/3-6.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/9-15.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/9-16.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/luke/22-20.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/8-8.htm
You should know I don't get my theology from biblehub. My bible clearly states testament, and a testament is not of force until the death of the testator. Covenants are a different story. God makes covenants throughout the bible that do not require death. Yes? So, there is clearly a difference. The two words cannot be used interchangeably.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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*cough*

Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, Who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
(2 Corinthians 3:5-6)
A common mistranslation of what Paul meant, use the KJV to get a proper translation.

You may want to read this thread if you are keen to understand the difference between Testament and covenant.

https://forwhatsaiththescriptures.org/2015/06/10/able-ministers-of-the-new-testament/
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I think you are mistaken. In Christ's time there was a hearisy of gnostics, they said that the Lord was only spiritual. Yet even the Lord's prayer is to be tought of as both spiritual and physical at the same time. When the Lord speaks of abundance, that is to be read as both physical and spiritual. When the Lord saved the children from slavery in Egypt, it was both physical and spiritual. Much scripture is a physical history, that history explains the spiritual facts of the Lord, but it is also a physical history. We are to open our hearts AND minds to the Lord, not limit Him.

When we give, we are blessed, when we steal we go to jail.
Ephesians 1:3
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Jan 12, 2019
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uh huh.
what's the actual scripture say, as God breathed it?
The same Greek word can have different meanings in English, depending on the other Greek words around it.

So you cannot say just because testament and covenant came from the same Greek word, they must mean therefore same thing.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Again I ask, how are you "in Christ's body" if not through the new covenant?
We are in Christ's body thru believing in his death burial and resurrection for our sins. (1 Cor 15:1-4)

No covenant required there. God don't make covenants with the Body of Christ.

If you really want to link it to a covenant, the closest would be the Abrahamic one, where he was justified by faith without circumcision, as Paul would explain in Romans 4.

But that was not made with us.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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We are in Christ's body thru believing in his death burial and resurrection for our sins. (1 Cor 15:1-4)

No covenant required there. God don't make covenants with the Body of Christ.

This is false. All Christians are partaking of the new covenant. Without that one is not a true Christian and not saved. Also, no one can partake of that new covenant if they reject Christ.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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This is false. All Christians are partaking of the new covenant. Without that one is not a true Christian and not saved. Also, no one can partake of that new covenant if they reject Christ.
So I will ask you the same question, do you regard the Body of Christ as either the House of Israel or the House of Judah? (Hebrews 8:8)