Sins cannot be charged!

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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#41
Jul 31, 2013
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#41
posthuman said:
the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.
(2 Corinthians 5:14-15)
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why does the Spirit say, He died for all, and then speak of those who live?
do all live?
the Spirit says all died. who then lives?
why does the Spirit say He died for all -- did the Spirit make a mistake here, should God have said "He died only for those who live" ??

i'm still unclear on how that shakes out. thanks.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#42
Jul 31, 2013
37,838
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#42
brightfame52 said:
No He didnt, some people will die in their sins Jn 8:24
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for sure.

and the Bible says they are those who do not believe.
the Bible does not say ((anywhere i'm currently aware of)) they are those for whom He did not taste death.

in fact --

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, ​
crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. ​
(Hebrews 2:9)​
​
the Bible says He is the propitiation for the sin of the whole world. 1 John 2
the Bible says He died for all. 1 Corinthians 5
the Bible says He tasted death for every man. Hebrews 2

can someone please show me how to turn these passages upside down? having difficulty with the plain language of scripture.
thanks ;)
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#43
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#43
brightfame52 said:
1 Cor 15:3-4

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

If Christ died for our sins, for He didn't die for everyone's sins, but if we're blessed to be of those He did die for, namely His Sheep or Church, then one thing is for certain, our sins cannot and will not be charged to us.

Rom 4:8

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 1
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Let's look at your words here:

"If Christ died for our sins, for He didn't die for everyone's sins, but if we're blessed to be of those He did die for, namely His Sheep or Church, then one thing is for certain, our sins cannot and will not be charged to us."

If we are to keep in step with the scriptures, as the author of this verse says, then Christ died for the sins of every person in the world. When the writer referenced "our sins" it is reasonable to conclude he meant the the human race.

1 John 2:2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Rightly dividing the word of truth requires searching through the scriptures to take numerous writings into account.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#44
Nov 21, 2020
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#44
[QUOTE="throughfaith, post: 4455865, member: 300037"]Yes it does . No one will be in hell paying for sins . Jesus paid for all sins .[/QUOTE]
No it doesnt !
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#45
Nov 21, 2020
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#45
throughfaith said:
John 8 is before Jesus paid for the sins of the world . Context, context, context. The wrath comes on those that refuse to believe the truth so as to be saved .
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Doesnt matter, God viewed Christ slain from the foundation of the world and thats what matters Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[for sins] from the foundation of the world.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#46
Nov 21, 2020
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#46
posthuman said:
i think you are not dealing honestly with the scriptures, friend.
what do they actually say?

the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; ​
and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. ​
(2 Corinthians 5:14-15)​
​
it doesn't say "if One died for some, then some died, and He died for some.."
it says "for all"

if what you say is correct, why does scripture say "for all" ?
any doctrine that is correct can be justified and will not be contradicted by the Word. so show me how your doctrine is reconciled with these things, can you?

or just say you can't. i'm fine with that too
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You cant embrace the Truth of non imputation of sin. You probably didnt know these verses existed !
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#47
Nov 21, 2020
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#47
throughfaith said:
The wrath of God is on the Christ rejectors ....who do those things . Thats how they are chaaracterised by those deeds.
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No wrath of God on them Christ died for, He took their wrath, and propitiated God for, and sin will not be charged to the !
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#48
Nov 21, 2020
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#48
Runningman said:
Let's look at your words here:

"If Christ died for our sins, for He didn't die for everyone's sins, but if we're blessed to be of those He did die for, namely His Sheep or Church, then one thing is for certain, our sins cannot and will not be charged to us."

If we are to keep in step with the scriptures, as the author of this verse says, then Christ died for the sins of every person in the world. When the writer referenced "our sins" it is reasonable to conclude he meant the the human race.

1 John 2:2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Rightly dividing the word of truth requires searching through the scriptures to take numerous writings into account.
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with my words. Them Christ died for, His Sheep, Church, God will not impute sins unto them.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#49
Jul 31, 2013
37,838
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#49
brightfame52 said:
You cant embrace the Truth of non imputation of sin. You probably didnt know these verses existed !
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i'm sorry, what verses are you talking about?

the ones i've been showing you, or the ones you've apparently neglected to show me?
i haven't seen any verse saying, God only died for believers. i have only heard a man say that; a man who does not carry the weight of scripture. show me such a verse?


i've not been overburdening you. i'm not asking you to write 5,000 words on 50 passages.
i gave you one verse last week; you haven't dealt with it.
so i've brought you two more today -- let every matter be established on the basis of 2 or 3 witnesses -- in case you couldn't accept just one saying from scripture to be sufficient to justify a thing.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#50
Nov 21, 2020
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#50
posthuman said:
for sure.

and the Bible says they are those who do not believe.
the Bible does not say ((anywhere i'm currently aware of)) they are those for whom He did not taste death.

in fact --

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, ​
crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. ​
(Hebrews 2:9)​
​
the Bible says He is the propitiation for the sin of the whole world. 1 John 2
the Bible says He died for all. 1 Corinthians 5
the Bible says He tasted death for every man. Hebrews 2

can someone please show me how to turn these passages upside down? having difficulty with the plain language of scripture.
thanks ;)
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Those who do not believe are not of His Sheep that He died for Jn 10:26

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

So they still in their sins since Christ didnt die for them, they are still imputed to them.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#51
Jul 31, 2013
37,838
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#51
brightfame52 said:
Those who do not believe are not of His Sheep that He died for Jn 10:26

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
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sure.

now what about 1 John 2:2, 1 Corinthians 5:14-15, and Hebrews 2:9 ?

because John 10:26 does not say He only died for His own sheep and no one else. what it says is that His sheep believe; those who are not His sheep do not believe.
it's true of course -- but it's deflecting.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#53
Jul 31, 2013
37,838
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#53
brightfame52 said:
So they still in their sins since Christ didnt die for them, they are still imputed to them.
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FALSE

John 8-10 says they are still in their sins because they do not believe.

it does not say He did not die for them.

"don't add to His words, lest He rebuke you"
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#54
Jul 31, 2013
37,838
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#54
brightfame52 said:
posth



Lol, read the OP
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they do not say Christ did not taste death for every man.
they do not say Christ is not the propitiation for the whole world.
they do not say Christ didn't die for all.

you are saying things that the Bible doesn't say, IMHO -- and it's really weird that you quote things which in no way whatsoever support your premise, as tho they do. :unsure:


please, how do you deal with Hebrews 2:9, 1 Corinthians 5:14-15, and 1 John 2:2?
because you are speaking against them, contradicting scripture, by your constant assertion that Christ didn't die for all.
is it impossible for you to give a reason for what you believe?
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#55
Nov 21, 2020
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557
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#55
posthuman said:
FALSE

John 8-10 says they are still in their sins because they do not believe.

it does not say He did not die for them.

"don't add to His words, lest He rebuke you"
Click to expand...
Those who dont believe Jesus said is because they werent His Sheep that He died for. Jn 10 26; Jn 10:1115
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#56
Jul 31, 2013
37,838
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#56
@brightfame52

even if you are unable to make your own arguments, why don't you go look up a commentator or something and show it to us, so that someone can explain why your apparent contradiction of the Bible isn't really a contradiction?

i'm starting to get the impression it's useless to talk to you. and that's sad
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#57
Nov 21, 2020
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#57
posthuman said:
they do not say Christ did not taste death for every man.
they do not say Christ is not the propitiation for the whole world.
they do not say Christ didn't die for all.

you are saying things that the Bible doesn't say, IMHO -- and it's really weird that you quote things which in no way whatsoever support your premise, as tho they do. :unsure:


please, how do you deal with Hebrews 2:9, 1 Corinthians 5:14-15, and 1 John 2:2?
because you are speaking against them, contradicting scripture, by your constant assertion that Christ didn't die for all.
is it impossible for you to give a reason for what you believe?
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He tasted death for every man he tasted death for. They wont have sin charged to them. Those who do have their sins charged to them, He didn't taste death for them.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#58
Nov 21, 2020
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#58
posthuman said:
@brightfame52

even if you are unable to make your own arguments, why don't you go look up a commentator or something and show it to us, so that someone can explain why your apparent contradiction of the Bible isn't really a contradiction?

i'm starting to get the impression it's useless to talk to you. and that's sad
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Im good. Them which Christ died for, shall not have sin put to their charge, that includes unbelief.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#59
Jul 31, 2013
37,838
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#59
brightfame52 said:
Those who dont believe Jesus said is because they werent His Sheep that He died for. Jn 10 26; Jn 10:1115
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none of that means 1 John 2 is a lie.
none of that means Hebrews 2 should be deleted from our Bible.
none of that indicates 1 Corinthians 5 is a mistake.

this does not say what you are claiming. it's not evidence of what you're claiming.
it is like this: you say all numbers are even. i say, what about 3? you answer, 4 is even.
insofar as proof, it's rubbish. you are not justifying what you say. do you comprehend that?
on the other hand i've given you three verses that very clearly, very plainly say you're wrong. can you explain how this can be?


I gave My back to the smiters, and My cheeks to them that plucked off the hair ​
(Isaiah 50:6)​
​
is my Bible wrong? should this read, I gave my back to those who do not smite, my cheeks to those who would never pluck off the hair?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#60
Jul 31, 2013
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#60
brightfame52 said:
He tasted death for every man he tasted death for. They wont have sin charged to them. Those who do have their sins charged to them, He didn't taste death for them.
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IMO you are clearly contradicting the Bible in this post, without shame.

Hebrews 2:9 says He tasted death for every man. calling Him a liar doesn't fix your theological problem; it makes it worse. :(
 
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