Sins cannot be charged!

[posthuman]

Yet no verse says this " Jesus died for the sins of the whole world of believers in Christ." This is calvinst anti biblical nonsense .

the hang-up for me was that i couldn't fathom God trying to do something and failing. i imagined Him 'doing all the world's laundry' but some of the stains not coming out -- and well, God's soap is divinely perfect soap. i said, this is impossible; He must have separated the laundry and only washed the children's clothes.

but i came to understand it differently ((and maybe still not rightly, but this is where i am now)) -- His divine hamper is open and His soap is sufficient, but many people decide to keep wearing their dirty clothes instead. they remain leprous because they refuse to dip in the river, not because the river isn't there.

and God knows, of course He knows. from the beginning He has known the end of all things. so it's remarkable that He chose a river or a sea -- the kind of thing anyone could walk up to; it's not fenced off or locked behind gates, and you don't need to put quarters in it. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness and the unrighteousness of those who despise Him. this is more than a laundromat; it's a proof & a witness, a sword with two edges, parrying and striking at once.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Waste of time to do that

Well for those who read this. The words pistis and pisteuo are the words for "faith" and "believe" in scripture. According to which verse, they are used differently. One is the faith given by God while the other is faith called from mankind.

 

[throughfaith]

Well for those who read this. The words pistis and pisteuo are the words for "faith" and "believe" in scripture. According to which verse, they are used differently. One is the faith given by God while the other is faith called from mankind.

Pistus is also ' assurance '
Acts 17.31

because He hath appointed a Day in which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained. Of this He hath given assurance ( pistus) unto ALL MEN , in that He hath raised Him from the dead.”

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Pistus is also ' assurance '
Acts 17.31

because He hath appointed a Day in which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained. Of this He hath given assurance ( pistus) unto ALL MEN , in that He hath raised Him from the dead.”

PISTEUO:
Hebrews 11:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.

PISTIS:
Ephesians 2:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

(4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).

 

[throughfaith]

PISTEUO:
Hebrews 11:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.

PISTIS:
Ephesians 2:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

(4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).

The whole point of ephesians is that we are not saved through works . Thats it . God has given assurance 'pistus 'of the resurrection. We believe because of the assurance. It really is that simple .Along comes Augustine in the forth century and all of a sudden " No ,faith is a exclusive gift , given only to the elect " . Rubbish !

 

[posthuman]

Along comes Augustine

here's some of what Augustine actually said:

“. . . in discussing the question about faith and works, [the Donatist Tichonius] said that works were given us by God as the reward of faith, but that faith itself was so far our own that it did not come to us from God; not keeping in mind the saying of the apostle: ‘Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.’ [Eph 6.23] But he had not come into contact with this heresy, which has arisen in our time, and has given us much labour and trouble in defending against it the grace of God which is through our Lord Jesus Christ, and which . . . has made us much more watchful and diligent to discover in Scripture what escaped Tichonius, who, having no enemy to guard against, was less attentive and anxious on this point, namely, that even faith itself is the gift of Him Who ‘hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.’ [Rom 12.3] Whence it is said to certain believers: ‘Unto you it is given, in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His sake.’ [Phil 1.29] Who, then, can doubt that each of these is the gift of God, when he learns from this passage, and believes, that each of them is given? There are many other testimonies besides which prove this. But I am not now treating of this doctrine. I have, however, dealt with it, one place or another, very frequently.” ​

(On Christian Doctrine, III.33)​

 

[posthuman]

but i came to understand it differently ((and maybe still not rightly, but this is where i am now)) -- His divine hamper is open and His soap is sufficient, but many people decide to keep wearing their dirty clothes instead. they remain leprous because they refuse to dip in the river, not because the river isn't there.

@Grandpa whom i love,

so for me the question is which people decided not to give Him their filthy rags to be redeemed & renewed?

and still the only answer i have is, "all people" -- no one comes to Him without being drawn; all go astray.
unless He had first quickened me, i certainly would not. no one who is blind decided, "i will see" and opens their own eyes. this is God's work, and He is not unjust if He reaches out in mercy to one man and not to another; it's mercy because neither the first man nor the second deserved it, and "He will have mercy on whom He will" -- the problem isn't, why does He only save a remnant. the problem is why does He save anyone, at all? but this isn't a problem. He doesn't redeem Israel for their sake, but for the sake of His own Name, which is "Salvation"

 

[SoulWeaver]

1 Cor 15:3-4

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

If Christ died for our sins, for He didn't die for everyone's sins, but if we're blessed to be of those He did die for, namely His Sheep or Church, then one thing is for certain, our sins cannot and will not be charged to us.

Rom 4:8

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 1

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and NOT FOR OURS ONLY, but also for the sins of the whole world.

God has no favorites, and we all started out as His enemies. Why would He treat a bunch of His enemies in two different ways? The Father gives sun and rain to both the evil and the good. So Jesus says, be perfect like the Father and be good to those who hate you, and pray for those who persecute you, oops, I meant to say do good only to the good, and withhold goodness from the wicked, that's totally how Jesus rolls. That must be why He died for the good only?
People who impute sin to others though, will impute sin to themselves in the process, because the same measure which we use on others, must be used on us. The parable about the unforgiving servant confirms this. The unforgiving servant was forgiven. Not "never forgiven to begin with" as this theory of God dying for sheep only would have it. The debt of this person was canceled! But he chose to continue in unforgiving, the condemnation was the crop he reaped; because he would not let go of debt.

 

[brightfame52]

it's written, He tasted death for everyone

He did taste death for everyone He tasted death for. And for them sin cannot be charged.

 

[brightfame52]

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and NOT FOR OURS ONLY, but also for the sins of the whole world.

God has no favorites, and we all started out as His enemies. Why would He treat a bunch of His enemies in two different ways? The Father gives sun and rain to both the evil and the good. So Jesus says, be perfect like the Father and be good to those who hate you, and pray for those who persecute you, oops, I meant to say do good only to the good, and withhold goodness from the wicked, that's totally how Jesus rolls. That must be why He died for the good only?
People who impute sin to others though, will impute sin to themselves in the process, because the same measure which we use on others, must be used on us. The parable about the unforgiving servant confirms this. The unforgiving servant was forgiven. Not "never forgiven to begin with" as this theory of God dying for sheep only would have it. The debt of this person was canceled! But he chose to continue in unforgiving, the condemnation was the crop he reaped; because he would not let go of debt.

Those in 1 Jn 2:2 sin cannot be charged to them, God will not impute sin, they are saved.

 

[posthuman]

He did taste death for everyone He tasted death for. And for them sin cannot be charged.

He tasted death for every man

that's what scripture says.

 

[Grandpa]

Yet no verse says this " Jesus died for the sins of the whole world of believers in Christ." This is calvinst anti biblical nonsense .

John 3:18 says it.

 

[Grandpa]

@Grandpa whom i love,

so for me the question is which people decided not to give Him their filthy rags to be redeemed & renewed?

and still the only answer i have is, "all people" -- no one comes to Him without being drawn; all go astray.
unless He had first quickened me, i certainly would not. no one who is blind decided, "i will see" and opens their own eyes. this is God's work, and He is not unjust if He reaches out in mercy to one man and not to another; it's mercy because neither the first man nor the second deserved it, and "He will have mercy on whom He will" -- the problem isn't, why does He only save a remnant. the problem is why does He save anyone, at all? but this isn't a problem. He doesn't redeem Israel for their sake, but for the sake of His own Name, which is "Salvation"

That's the way I see it, too.

 

[throughfaith]

John 3:18 says it.

18¶He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Nope.

 

[brightfame52]

He tasted death for every man

that's what scripture says.

He did taste death for everyone He tasted death for. And to them sin will not be charged!

 

[throughfaith]

He did taste death for everyone He tasted death for. And to them sin will not be charged!

if someone came to you and said he only tasted death for every Jewish man , you would have no defense .

 

[brightfame52]

if someone came to you and said he only tasted death for every Jewish man , you would have no defense .

He tasted death for all He tasted death for. And they will not have sin charged to them ever.

 

[brightfame52]

Paul as an example is a pattern on how God doesn't impute the sin of unbelief on His elect, sheep ! When sharing his testimony he writes 1 Tim 1:12-13

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13 who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Pauls wickedness against the Body of Christ was spearheaded by the sin of unbelief ! But notice what he said in Vs 16

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy[Rom 11:32], that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

God instead of condemning Paul in unbelief, He had mercy on him and gave him grace to faith and love to Jesus Christ Vs 14
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Christ came into the world to save unbelieving sinners. If Christ didnt do that, no sinner can be saved since all by nature are imprisoned in unbelief Rom 11:32

To teach that sinners Christ died for, His Sheep, can be condemned and lost for unbelief is a flat out denial of the blessed truth Rom 4:7-8

7saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

And it also denies that Christ came into the world to save sinners ! 24

 

[posthuman]

Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle — I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying — a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
(1 Timothy 2:1-7) ​

​

​

• is Paul saying we ought to only pray for those who believe, or for all men ?
• if only for believers, how do you get that from the text ?
• if we ought to pray for all people, what does Paul give as the reason we should pray for all, even our enemies ?
  • because God desires all to be saved ?
  • therefore Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all ?

​

 

[posthuman]

He tasted death for all He tasted death for. And they will not have sin charged to them ever.

does it matter if someone believes or not?