Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

[Webers.Home]

.
The OP doesn't target rank and file pew warmers.

The OP specifically targets Christian men ordained to serve Christ as per the
epistles of Titus, 1&2Timothy, and to some extent 1Peter. (Third paragraph
down from the top in post No.1)
_

 

[oyster67]

I am not surprised by some of the comments here. Easy to tell who did or did not grow up in the deep South in the glory days of the KLAN, racism, segregation, lynching, murders, castrations, and other terrible treatments of black Americans simply for the color of their skin.

Reverend King was a man who loved and served God, and when his people needed someone to step up and lead them to try and free themselves from the tyranny or Southern racism, he stepped forth without regard for his life. It is a sad thing to see people attempting to lessen the sacrifice of a man who epitomized the very words of Jesus.............

John 15:13) Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Matthew 5:9) Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Reverend King stepped forth to bring the Gospel of Jesus to his people, and to all the peoples of our Country. He served as an example of Christ like love even when he was hated by the majority of the whites in America, and even some of his own people. He NEVER justified violence. He believed that only through brotherly love and peaceful demonstrations could freedom from racism ever be achieved.

Maybe this is one of those times in History when a person had to actually live through and personally witness the events of this time to fully understand and appreciate the courage and Christ like love of Reverend King.

Years ago, I wrote this as I was reflecting on growing up in Alabama in the 50's and 60's, and the horror of the events I witnessed on more than one occasion.

SIMPLY A MAN

Just a piece of cloth, soft and warm to the touch,
Bright in color and attractive in taste.
Still, simply, a woven image of one man,
A man with a dream........who remembers?

Just a piece of land, dry and sun baked,
Little green at all. A fence, board and tools.
Still, simply, an earthly image of one man,
A man with a dream.......who remembers?

Just a piece of gold, bright and glittering,
Round in shape. Twinkling hopes of desire in each reflection.
Still, simply, a jeweled image of one man,
A man with a dream......who remembers?

Just a pine box, rectangular in shape,
Plain and free of ornaments.
Still, simply, a buried image of one man,
A man with a dream........who remembers?

Amen! I salute you @p_rehbein . I too grew grew up with those KKK terrorists boldly burning crosses at midnight right up the road from my house. I was horrified. As a little tot, I was not prepared for what I saw. Mom and dad could not find words to explain it to me.

 

[Corban]

Yes, it's replacing our Lord Jesus and his teachings with other people and their philosophies.
I was talking to someone yesterday who believes in Jesus. She said President Trump is a man of God who has our backs. I told her Jesus is man of God who has our backs. Why not just mention the Lord who can solve all of mankinds problems, whether it's hatred over race, etc?

Your lady friend would be shocked to read about President Trump in Daniel 4:17;

17 "This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men."

Don't get me wrong. I think Mr. Trump was good for America, but "man of God" should rather say; "man because of God". I'm under no illusion that Mr. Trump was a saint, but I think that God gave the USA one last chance to thwart the establishment. But the 4 solid years of the press bashing him had its effect. Woe to the nation that reads the news and not the Bible.

 

[kaylagrl]

he didn't stop preaching in churches. he preached a sermon in a church the day he was murdered.
and when he wasn't in churches, he didn't stop preaching.
he did not view injustice as a 'secular cause'

And just like that, we agree. Well said Post.

 

[CS1]

Your lady friend would be shocked to read about President Trump in Daniel 4:17;

17 "This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men."

Don't get me wrong. I think Mr. Trump was good for America, but "man of God" should rather say; "man because of God". I'm under no illusion that Mr. Trump was a saint, but I think that God gave the USA one last chance to thwart the establishment. But the 4 solid years of the press bashing him had its effect. Woe to the nation that reads the news and not the Bible.

the fact that Trump won was a God thing the fact that He lost was God allowed it. Trump was grace to America Biden will be the continue Judgment and 2021 will not be better this is the time of birth pains and the half baked cakes Christians will be required to make a decision to deny Christ or suffer persecution. Loss of job, fines, and jail is coming . America will answer to God for 61 million babies blood shed in this nation. And I will go out and say we can see our Nation given to another.

many professing Christians supported abortion, gay marriage, divorce, drunkness, and fornication. MANY WOULD NOT SPEAK OUT against this kind of sin because it was unpopular to do so. Many will not speak out when they make it illegal.

IF you deny me before men I will deny you before my Father". many self-professing Christians will find out they were not born again but fooled again. IF you don't have the power of the Holy Spirit you will not be a witness unto death. You will deny Him and you will be made to choose. Get ready, pray up, be filled up, and look up, because HE is coming soon.

 

[Corban]

I am not sure if this post can be a Bible study topic. it is more opinionated about a man who is no longer here to defend himself
I think too you do not understand the context of the African Americans in the south in the '60s. the South was segregated and the south was racist but the South respected Pastors. Black Pastors were the only lawyers Blacks could afford. When a Black youth was taken the church was the only one who was able to see them. The Church was segregated but because of Blacks but because of the ruling whites of that day. MLK did what many Pastors did and were killed for. I think it is inappropriate to attack this dead minister and I too think this thread is in the wrong place.

I'm glad this Forum is moderated, and you brothers do a great work. I'll abide by your decision whichever way you go. But here we have a great opportunity to discuss, not racialism, but whether a Christian should involve him/herself in the politics, management and government of this world before our Lord Jesus returns to change things. It may be of value to note that our Lord Jesus, Chief of men and angels, could have summoned 12 legions of angels to overthrow oppressing Roman politics - and did not. When we consider that one angel once killed 185,000 men in one night of fighting, we might have an inkling of the military and political power that our Lord Jesus had at His disposal. Yet He did not call for it, and though He sits in the right hand of the Father's throne "above the highest heaven", with "all authority in haven and earth", He has not called for change yet.

On the other hand, we cannot doubt Mr. King's courage and commitment to take on the politicians of his day, and pay the ultimate price. I wonder how the Lord will judge him?

 

[Corban]

the fact that Trump won was a God thing the fact that He lost was God allowed it. Trump was grace to America Biden will be the continue Judgment and 2021 will not be better this is the time of birth pains and the half baked cakes Christians will be required to make a decision to deny Christ or suffer persecution. Loss of job, fines, and jail is coming . America will answer to God for 61 million babies blood shed in this nation. And I will go out and say we can see our Nation given to another.

many professing Christians supported abortion, gay marriage, divorce, drunkness, and fornication. MANY WOULD NOT SPEAK OUT against this kind of sin because it was unpopular to do so. Many will not speak out when they make it illegal.

IF you deny me before men I will deny you before my Father". many self-professing Christians will find out they were not born again but fooled again. IF you don't have the power of the Holy Spirit you will not be a witness unto death. You will deny Him and you will be made to choose. Get ready, pray up, be filled up, and look up, because HE is coming soon.

Amen. All agreed.

 

[CS1]

I'm glad this Forum is moderated, and you brothers do a great work. I'll abide by your decision whichever way you go. But here we have a great opportunity to discuss, not racialism, but whether a Christian should involve him/herself in the politics, management and government of this world before our Lord Jesus returns to change things. It may be of value to note that our Lord Jesus, Chief of men and angels, could have summoned 12 legions of angels to overthrow oppressing Roman politics - and did not. When we consider that one angel once killed 185,000 men in one night of fighting, we might have an inkling of the military and political power that our Lord Jesus had at His disposal. Yet He did not call for it, and though He sits in the right hand of the Father's throne "above the highest heaven", with "all authority in haven and earth", He has not called for change yet.

On the other hand, we cannot doubt Mr. King's courage and commitment to take on the politicians of his day, and pay the ultimate price. I wonder how the Lord will judge him?

it was recommendation Admin will determine if it is to be moved please all can respond

 

[CS1]

I'm glad this Forum is moderated, and you brothers do a great work. I'll abide by your decision whichever way you go. But here we have a great opportunity to discuss, not racialism, but whether a Christian should involve him/herself in the politics, management and government of this world before our Lord Jesus returns to change things. It may be of value to note that our Lord Jesus, Chief of men and angels, could have summoned 12 legions of angels to overthrow oppressing Roman politics - and did not. When we consider that one angel once killed 185,000 men in one night of fighting, we might have an inkling of the military and political power that our Lord Jesus had at His disposal. Yet He did not call for it, and though He sits in the right hand of the Father's throne "above the highest heaven", with "all authority in haven and earth", He has not called for change yet.

On the other hand, we cannot doubt Mr. King's courage and commitment to take on the politicians of his day, and pay the ultimate price. I wonder how the Lord will judge him?

there are those who say and hold to no pastor should get involved in what is seen as political.

I disagree. Every Prophet was called before the King, in exile and slavery Joseph, and Daniel were used in government.

It should not be the main reason the Gospel is the mission to be carried out. Yet we are to speak out against the sin of a Government.

Old Testament Prophets did, John the Baptist did Paul did even debated philosophers. Peter and John said in Acts 4:19-20

"But Peter and John replied, "Which is right in God's eyes: to listen to you, or to him? You be the judges! " 20" As for us, we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.”

 

[Corban]

there are those who say and hold to no pastor should get involved in what is seen as political.

I disagree. Every Prophet was called before the King, in exile and slavery Joseph, and Daniel were used in government.

It should not be the main reason the Gospel is the mission to be carried out. Yet we are to speak out against the sin of a Government.

Old Testament Prophets did, John the Baptist did Paul did even debated philosophers. Peter and John said in Acts 4:19-20

"But Peter and John replied, "Which is right in God's eyes: to listen to you, or to him? You be the judges! " 20" As for us, we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.”

You have a seemingly good argument, and I respect it. My counter would be to say that there is a huge difference between the Old Testament and the New.

In the Old Testament we had a Nation with fixed borders. This Nation was a political entity among other political entities. WITHIN Israel there was supposed to be a type of life that dispalyed God's nature and His blessings. But if the surrounding Nations disagreed with Israel, or Jehovah, and attacked Israel, they were to go to war. God maintained His presence by fighting men. When Israel, through their Law-breaking, were carried off and subjected to these Nations, prophets like Daniel spoke to Gentile kings about their political future.

But when our Lord Jesus came, the fight turned from men, to spiritual principalities. Our Lord Jesus never even addressed the Romans. But he attacked the demons and strove with an angel. Our Lord's teaching was that TO MEN ...

1. we must be meek and allow to be wronged (1st Cor.6:7)
2. we have a ministry of reconciliation, not confrontation (2nd Cor.5:18-19)
3. we must not resist slave-masters, but submit to them (Eph.6:5)
4. we must submit to Rome and pay their taxes (Matt.22:17-21; Rom.13:7)
5. we fight not against men, but against principalities in heavenly places (Eph.6:12)
6. we must accept political leaders as the servant of God who carries a sword in God's name, even if he is an unbeliever (Rom.13:1-4)

The reason for this is that God wants to be reconciled to mankind, and (i) this takes time - a time in which the enemy will cause damage before he extends the hand of reconciliation, and (ii) if God retaliated men would not survive and be reconciled. Each one of us on this Forum was a certain age when we changed from being God's enemy to His servant and son. If we were to be judged at the first sin, none would have converted. We would all be dead.

I agree that we should have a deep sense of justice ourselves, and we should apply it when we can. But to actively take the podium of social issues and not the gospel is not given to the Church.

 

[CS1]

You have a seemingly good argument, and I respect it. My counter would be to say that there is a huge difference between the Old Testament and the New.

In the Old Testament we had a Nation with fixed borders. This Nation was a political entity among other political entities. WITHIN Israel there was supposed to be a type of life that dispalyed God's nature and His blessings. But if the surrounding Nations disagreed with Israel, or Jehovah, and attacked Israel, they were to go to war. God maintained His presence by fighting men. When Israel, through their Law-breaking, were carried off and subjected to these Nations, prophets like Daniel spoke to Gentile kings about their political future.

But when our Lord Jesus came, the fight turned from men, to spiritual principalities. Our Lord Jesus never even addressed the Romans. But he attacked the demons and strove with an angel. Our Lord's teaching was that TO MEN ...

1. we must be meek and allow to be wronged (1st Cor.6:7)
2. we have a ministry of reconciliation, not confrontation (2nd Cor.5:18-19)
3. we must not resist slave-masters, but submit to them (Eph.6:5)
4. we must submit to Rome and pay their taxes (Matt.22:17-21; Rom.13:7)
5. we fight not against men, but against principalities in heavenly places (Eph.6:12)
6. we must accept political leaders as the servant of God who carries a sword in God's name, even if he is an unbeliever (Rom.13:1-4)

The reason for this is that God wants to be reconciled to mankind, and (i) this takes time - a time in which the enemy will cause damage before he extends the hand of reconciliation, and (ii) if God retaliated men would not survive and be reconciled. Each one of us on this Forum was a certain age when we changed from being God's enemy to His servant and son. If we were to be judged at the first sin, none would have converted. We would all be dead.

I agree that we should have a deep sense of justice ourselves, and we should apply it when we can. But to actively take the podium of social issues and not the gospel is not given to the Church.

the one thing that I think nails it home in both the Old and New Testament is they all STOOD FOR TRUTH!.

Jesus, I think said it best to Pontius Pilate in the gospel of John 18:37

Pilate said, “So you are a king?”
Jesus responded, “You say I am a king. Actually, I was born and came into the world to testify to the truth. All who love the truth recognize that what I say is true.”

WE are, to tell the truth, no matter what the cost. Jesus never told anything but the truth. Jesus said HE was the only Truth and only way and only Life. When a Pastor preaches at the Pulpit it must be 100% truth.

When the prophet was called upon or sent by God to leaders they told the Truth. There is no difference in the Old or New Truth was told be told then and it is to be told now. WE are to speak the truth in Love another way to say that is
Telling the truth to those who will not like it is LOVE.

 

[Corban]

the one thing that I think nails it home in both the Old and New Testament is they all STOOD FOR TRUTH!.

Jesus, I think said it best to Pontius Pilate in the gospel of John 18:37

Pilate said, “So you are a king?”
Jesus responded, “You say I am a king. Actually, I was born and came into the world to testify to the truth. All who love the truth recognize that what I say is true.”

WE are, to tell the truth, no matter what the cost. Jesus never told anything but the truth. Jesus said HE was the only Truth and only way and only Life. When a Pastor preaches at the Pulpit it must be 100% truth.

When the prophet was called upon or sent by God to leaders they told the Truth. There is no difference in the Old or New Truth was told be told then and it is to be told now. WE are to speak the truth in Love another way to say that is
Telling the truth to those who will not like it is LOVE.

That's accepted. But have you got time to show the scriptures on civil rights in the New Testament so we can establish what is truth and match it to Mr. King's speaking? Thanks, and no hurry.

 

[p_rehbein]

I suspect God will judge Reverend King just fine. And not more harsh than ANY of the WHITE SOUTHERN BAPTIST Preachers/Pastors who dabble in political issues on a daily basis..........and all those Televangelists claiming to be prophets sent by God to gather all our riches into one pot........THEIR POT.

Reverend King DID NOT run for Office, or any such. What he did do is take a stand against racial and social injustice. Jesus did the same did he not? The Apostle Paul stated such in Galatians did he not?


Galatians 3:28

King James Version



28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Leave Reverend King alone.............judge yourselves IF you must judge someone

 

[CS1]

That's accepted. But have you got time to show the scriptures on civil rights in the New Testament so we can establish what is truth and match it to Mr. King's speaking? Thanks, and no hurry.

Civil rights were addressed in the Civil Law in Moses day and carried through. Three laws provided :

1. Moral law the 10
2.Civil law lev
3. Ceremonial law lev & Deut.


Now Jesus addressed the laws of moral and civil laws in Matthew chapter 5 - 7 and in Matthew chapter 23.

When Jesus said " You have heard it said " in context to divorce Jesus said BUT I say into you " raised the standard of the Law. In Matthew 23 Jesus brought down the hammer on those Pharisees who abused both moral and civil law to control the people, yet they would not live under the something they put on the people. Woe to you hypocrites! he said many times.

 

[Magenta]

State of Independence; Martin Luther King remix by Moodswings

 

[Webers.Home]

.

here we have a great opportunity to discuss, not racialism, but whether a
Christian should involve him/herself in the politics, management and
government of this world before our Lord Jesus returns to change things.

The OP doesn't pertain to nondescript Christians, rather, it specifically
pertains to Christian men ordained to serve Christ per the epistles of Titus,
1&2Timothy, and to some extent 1Peter. (Third paragraph down from the
top in post No.1)

For example: President Biden is a Christian; but to my knowledge he is not
ordained to serve Christ per the epistles of Titus, 1&2Timothy, and to some
extent 1Peter.

Seeing as how the President is basically a rank and file pew warmer, then
he is not required to comply with the rules in those sections of the Bible
pertaining to clergy.
_

 

[CS1]

.



The OP doesn't pertain to nondescript Christians, rather, it specifically
pertains to Christian men ordained to serve Christ per the epistles of Titus,
1&2Timothy, and to some extent 1Peter. (Third paragraph down from the
top in post No.1)

For example: President Biden is a Christian; but to my knowledge he is not
ordained to serve Christ per the epistles of Titus, 1&2Timothy, and to some
extent 1Peter.

Seeing as how the President is basically a rank and file pew warmer, then
he is not required to comply with the rules in those sections of the Bible
pertaining to clergy.
_

So men who are Christians but not called to serve as Pastors can marry more than one wife? Where does one stop a godlily application of of the word over reducing or not inclusive to the whole body?

 

[kaylagrl]

I'm glad this Forum is moderated, and you brothers do a great work. I'll abide by your decision whichever way you go. But here we have a great opportunity to discuss, not racialism, but whether a Christian should involve him/herself in the politics, management and government of this world before our Lord Jesus returns to change things. It may be of value to note that our Lord Jesus, Chief of men and angels, could have summoned 12 legions of angels to overthrow oppressing Roman politics - and did not. When we consider that one angel once killed 185,000 men in one night of fighting, we might have an inkling of the military and political power that our Lord Jesus had at His disposal. Yet He did not call for it, and though He sits in the right hand of the Father's throne "above the highest heaven", with "all authority in haven and earth", He has not called for change yet.

On the other hand, we cannot doubt Mr. King's courage and commitment to take on the politicians of his day, and pay the ultimate price. I wonder how the Lord will judge him?

.
• 2Tim 2:3-7 . . No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs--
he wants to please his commanding officer.

A soldier's primary responsibility is to accomplish the mission assigned by
their commanders. They don't give themselves leave to abandon their posts
to go off on their own personal agenda doing other stuff. Desertion and
dereliction of duty are courts martial offenses.

Christian men, ordained to serve Christ as per the epistles of Titus,
1&2Timothy and to some extent 1Peter, have no business involving
themselves in the world's affairs and or using their pulpits for any other
purpose than what Christ expects.

• 1Tim 4:13 . . Focus on reading the Scriptures to the church, encouraging
the believers, and teaching them.

According to Eph 4:11-15 God gives ministers to the churches for the
express purpose of building them up in the faith, NOT for leading them into
secular causes.

I truly believe that if Dr. Martin Luther King Jr had stayed in church and
complied with the Bible's instructions for ordained Christian ministers as per
the epistles of Titus, 1&2Timothy, and to some extent 1Peter instead of
getting involved in political activism, social justice, and/or civil disobedience,
he could have served Christ another thirty-five years instead of getting
himself assassinated when he was only 39 years old.

Was Dr. King a martyr? Well, if he was, it certainly wasn't in a cause for
Christ. No, it was for a worldly cause. Dr. King marginalized his pastoral
responsibilities. He put duty to the color of his skin first, and duty to Christ
second. That was a very bad move for an ordained Christian minister.

Moral of the story is: nobody is twisting anybody's arm to commit to a
ministry; but once the commitment is made: then they'd do well to hold
fast, stay the course, and not get distracted.

• Luke 9:62 . . No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit
for service in the kingdom of God.
_

.



The OP doesn't pertain to nondescript Christians, rather, it specifically
pertains to Christian men ordained to serve Christ per the epistles of Titus,
1&2Timothy, and to some extent 1Peter. (Third paragraph down from the
top in post No.1)

For example: President Biden is a Christian; but to my knowledge he is not
ordained to serve Christ per the epistles of Titus, 1&2Timothy, and to some
extent 1Peter.

Seeing as how the President is basically a rank and file pew warmer, then
he is not required to comply with the rules in those sections of the Bible
pertaining to clergy.
_

Biden is not a Christian. His support of abortion proves that.

 

[CS1]

Biden is not a Christian. His support of abortion proves that.

it is sure hard to see one who here the words of Jesus say Suffer not the little children to come unto me with picturing Joe Biden with little children.

 

[Webers.Home]

.

men who are Christians but not called to serve as Pastors

The OP doesn't pertain to called Christian men, rather, it pertains to
ordained Christian men. (Third paragraph down from the top in post No.1)
_