Believers and non believers; what's the difference?

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L

luigi

Junior Member
#1
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
63
#1
There are two types of people; those who believe IN God and His Christ, and those who do not believe in God and His Christ. Within these two groups, however, are those who believe themselves to be believers in God and His Christ, who in fact do not believe, to whom Christ will profess never having known them (Matthew 7:23); and there are those who do not believe themselves believers in God and His Christ, to whom Christ will award the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 25:34). So what is the difference between these two latter groups of individuals? The difference is in the interpretation of what it means to believe IN God and His Christ. To one individual to believe in God and His Christ means only to believe that God exists and that Jesus is Gods son. Even the devils are aware of this type of believing in God and His Christ (James 2:19), and it does them no good, because they do not believe IN God and IN His Christ. The 2nd of the two latter groups of individuals in Matthew 25:33-40, whom the Lord refers to as His sheep, who did not recognize their faith IN God and His Christ, the Lord explains their faith IN Him through their actions in Matthew 25:35-40. These individuals believed IN loving their neighbor, and thus believed IN God who is love (1 John 4:7-8 & 16), and IN His Christ.
Within the body of Christ today, are both the wheat and the weeds. The weeds are they in Matthew 7:23 whose faith in God and His Christ is superficial and made. These weeds are they, who as the Lord commences to shake the earth, will be shaken out from those who truly believe IN God and His Christ, so that the wheat may remain (Hebrews 12:26-27).
So, do we honestly love God, His Christ, and our neighbor?
 
NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#2
Nov 23, 2019
977
386
63
#2
luigi said:
There are two types of people; those who believe IN God and His Christ, and those who do not believe in God and His Christ. Within these two groups, however, are those who believe themselves to be believers in God and His Christ, who in fact do not believe, to whom Christ will profess never having known them (Matthew 7:23); and there are those who do not believe themselves believers in God and His Christ, to whom Christ will award the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 25:34). So what is the difference between these two latter groups of individuals? The difference is in the interpretation of what it means to believe IN God and His Christ. To one individual to believe in God and His Christ means only to believe that God exists and that Jesus is Gods son. Even the devils are aware of this type of believing in God and His Christ (James 2:19), and it does them no good, because they do not believe IN God and IN His Christ. The 2nd of the two latter groups of individuals in Matthew 25:33-40, whom the Lord refers to as His sheep, who did not recognize their faith IN God and His Christ, the Lord explains their faith IN Him through their actions in Matthew 25:35-40. These individuals believed IN loving their neighbor, and thus believed IN God who is love (1 John 4:7-8 & 16), and IN His Christ.
Within the body of Christ today, are both the wheat and the weeds. The weeds are they in Matthew 7:23 whose faith in God and His Christ is superficial and made. These weeds are they, who as the Lord commences to shake the earth, will be shaken out from those who truly believe IN God and His Christ, so that the wheat may remain (Hebrews 12:26-27).
So, do we honestly love God, His Christ, and our neighbor?
Click to expand...
The difference in true believers and false believers is the presence of God the Spirit only He grants true saving faith.
 
L

luigi

Junior Member
#3
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
63
#3
NOV25 said:
The difference in true believers and false believers is the presence of God the Spirit only He grants true saving faith.
Click to expand...
The presence of God is the presence of love in people.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#4
#4
luigi said:
There are two types of people; those who believe IN God and His Christ, and those who do not believe in God and His Christ. Within these two groups, however, are those who believe themselves to be believers in God and His Christ, who in fact do not believe, to whom Christ will profess never having known them (Matthew 7:23); and there are those who do not believe themselves believers in God and His Christ, to whom Christ will award the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 25:34). So what is the difference between these two latter groups of individuals? The difference is in the interpretation of what it means to believe IN God and His Christ. To one individual to believe in God and His Christ means only to believe that God exists and that Jesus is Gods son. Even the devils are aware of this type of believing in God and His Christ (James 2:19), and it does them no good, because they do not believe IN God and IN His Christ. The 2nd of the two latter groups of individuals in Matthew 25:33-40, whom the Lord refers to as His sheep, who did not recognize their faith IN God and His Christ, the Lord explains their faith IN Him through their actions in Matthew 25:35-40. These individuals believed IN loving their neighbor, and thus believed IN God who is love (1 John 4:7-8 & 16), and IN His Christ.
Within the body of Christ today, are both the wheat and the weeds. The weeds are they in Matthew 7:23 whose faith in God and His Christ is superficial and made. These weeds are they, who as the Lord commences to shake the earth, will be shaken out from those who truly believe IN God and His Christ, so that the wheat may remain (Hebrews 12:26-27).
So, do we honestly love God, His Christ, and our neighbor?
Click to expand...
It's not that they didn't think they believe, it's that they didn't think their actions were of any consequences. If you think you don't believe then you don't. There are atheists who do good works out of kindness, but even genuine good works do not save.
 
L

luigi

Junior Member
#5
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
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#5
Blackpowderduelist said:
It's not that they didn't think they believe, it's that they didn't think their actions were of any consequences. If you think you don't believe then you don't. There are atheists who do good works out of kindness, but even genuine good works do not save.
Click to expand...
They in Matthew 25:33-40 believed IN loving their neighbor, and thus believed IN God and His Christ, even though they did not recognize their faith in love as such. In contrast, those in Matthew 7:23 who did many good works, cast out demons, and proclaimed Christ, did in fact not believe in loving their neighbor, and thus Christ declared to them that He did not know them, as they did not know love.
 
Beez

Beez

Senior Member
#6
Nov 27, 2017
463
83
28
#6
I believe myself to be a very new believer for one being among religious people all my life -- 71 years. I tended toward being a believer much of that time but only as a guarantee for my children to be safe in G_D and for my completely selfish reasons. I have actually only been a believer for almost 15 years. But regarding this subject, I always avoid it, because it is so scary to me. So I don't deal with it. Now, I am going to deal with it.

All those years, I sincerely thought myself to be a believer (most of the time). Realizing I had been faking it from age 14 until age 56 was almost more than I could take! So I KNOW that this can happen. And when I became an actual believer, I realized that a lot of the people I knew were not the believers they claimed to be -- people in that old church! This shakes me to the core!

So I need to learn this.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#7
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#7
luigi said:
There are two types of people; those who believe IN God and His Christ, and those who do not believe in God and His Christ. Within these two groups, however, are those who believe themselves to be believers in God and His Christ, who in fact do not believe, to whom Christ will profess never having known them (Matthew 7:23); and there are those who do not believe themselves believers in God and His Christ, to whom Christ will award the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 25:34). So what is the difference between these two latter groups of individuals? The difference is in the interpretation of what it means to believe IN God and His Christ. To one individual to believe in God and His Christ means only to believe that God exists and that Jesus is Gods son. Even the devils are aware of this type of believing in God and His Christ (James 2:19), and it does them no good, because they do not believe IN God and IN His Christ. The 2nd of the two latter groups of individuals in Matthew 25:33-40, whom the Lord refers to as His sheep, who did not recognize their faith IN God and His Christ, the Lord explains their faith IN Him through their actions in Matthew 25:35-40. These individuals believed IN loving their neighbor, and thus believed IN God who is love (1 John 4:7-8 & 16), and IN His Christ.
Within the body of Christ today, are both the wheat and the weeds. The weeds are they in Matthew 7:23 whose faith in God and His Christ is superficial and made. These weeds are they, who as the Lord commences to shake the earth, will be shaken out from those who truly believe IN God and His Christ, so that the wheat may remain (Hebrews 12:26-27).
So, do we honestly love God, His Christ, and our neighbor?
Click to expand...
It's more like it is faith that saves us and that good works are the result of faith. (Eph. 2:8-9) We do good works because we love God and our neighbor as ourselves. (Rom. 12:1, 1 John 4:19)

How someone loves someone as their self will vary from individual to individual, but what doesn't change are the basic necessities to sustain life like food, clothing, and shelter so that's the example Jesus used. (Matt. 25:34-36)

Just doing good things without faith isn't enough and never will be. The so called good things we do aren't really that great. Isaiah says God sees our righteousness as a "filthy rag." Some translations say something else...(Isaiah 64:6)

When we do good things it isn't for our benefit, but to bring glory to God. It serves two purposes: 1. doing good to those made in God's image is like being good to God himself. (Col. 3:9-10) 2. Good works shines the light before others so they may see the good works and glorify God. (Matt. 5:16)

Works will happen automatically through faith in Christ (Eph. 2:10). It is called being born again by the Holy Spirit (John 3:6-7). We'll start producing fruits of the Holy Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23). Believers are sanctified at different rates (2 Cor. 3:18) meaning that someone can still be in Christ and still be worldly. (1 Cor. 3:1-3)
 
L

luigi

Junior Member
#8
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
63
#8
Beez said:
I believe myself to be a very new believer for one being among religious people all my life -- 71 years. I tended toward being a believer much of that time but only as a guarantee for my children to be safe in G_D and for my completely selfish reasons. I have actually only been a believer for almost 15 years. But regarding this subject, I always avoid it, because it is so scary to me. So I don't deal with it. Now, I am going to deal with it.

All those years, I sincerely thought myself to be a believer (most of the time). Realizing I had been faking it from age 14 until age 56 was almost more than I could take! So I KNOW that this can happen. And when I became an actual believer, I realized that a lot of the people I knew were not the believers they claimed to be -- people in that old church! This shakes me to the core!

So I need to learn this.
Click to expand...
Excellent confession Beez. I hope and pray the Lord provide you with His Holy Spirit to continue along in truth.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#9
Jul 3, 2015
60,160
29,463
113
#9
Beez said:
I believe myself to be a very new believer for one being among religious people all my life -- 71 years. I tended toward being a believer much of that time but only as a guarantee for my children to be safe in G_D and for my completely selfish reasons. I have actually only been a believer for almost 15 years. But regarding this subject, I always avoid it, because it is so scary to me. So I don't deal with it. Now, I am going to deal with it.

All those years, I sincerely thought myself to be a believer (most of the time). Realizing I had been faking it from age 14 until age 56 was almost more than I could take! So I KNOW that this can happen. And when I became an actual believer, I realized that a lot of the people I knew were not the believers they claimed to be -- people in that old church! This shakes me to the core!

So I need to learn this.
Click to expand...
We are very close in spiritual age :):love::)

I rebelliously resisted the call of God on my life for a long time, running, running, running... until my predicament regarding the question of Who He is, and whether or not He truly exists, became so dire, I started going to church in my late forties, after having left the "religion" of my upbringing as a teenager... at that time I was invited by a friend to an Alpha Course at one of the churches I was attending. She was going to be a table host, and I agreed quite readily, partially out of my respect for her, but also out of curiosity, and the general seeking mode I was engaged in. Lo! At some point during the Alpha Course I realized that the course was designed to convince people of the Truth of God's Word, and with this realization came another: I needed no more convincing! My years of running from God came to a grinding halt, and I was baptized at the end of the A.C. in November of 2014 :D Praise the Lord, for He is good; His love endures forever! :):love::)

God is long suffering towards us, this I know, and am so grateful He allowed me to survive the stupidity of my youth :D
 
L

luigi

Junior Member
#10
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
63
#10
Runningman said:
It's more like it is faith that saves us and that good works are the result of faith. (Eph. 2:8-9) We do good works because we love God and our neighbor as ourselves. (Rom. 12:1, 1 John 4:19)

How someone loves someone as their self will vary from individual to individual, but what doesn't change are the basic necessities to sustain life like food, clothing, and shelter so that's the example Jesus used. (Matt. 25:34-36)

Just doing good things without faith isn't enough and never will be. The so called good things we do aren't really that great. Isaiah says God sees our righteousness as a "filthy rag." Some translations say something else...(Isaiah 64:6)

When we do good things it isn't for our benefit, but to bring glory to God. It serves two purposes: 1. doing good to those made in God's image is like being good to God himself. (Col. 3:9-10) 2. Good works shines the light before others so they may see the good works and glorify God. (Matt. 5:16)

Works will happen automatically through faith in Christ (Eph. 2:10). It is called being born again by the Holy Spirit (John 3:6-7). We'll start producing fruits of the Holy Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23). Believers are sanctified at different rates (2 Cor. 3:18) meaning that someone can still be in Christ and still be worldly. (1 Cor. 3:1-3)
Click to expand...
Yes Runningman, those who truly love God/love, results in acts of loving our neighbor, as is described in Matthew 25:33-40.
There are, however, also those who will have cast out demons, proclaimed the Lord, and have done a number of good works, to whom Love (the Lord) will declare, never having known them (Matthew 7:23). As I mentioned in my OP, this latter group are the weeds currently among the wheat, who when the Lord once again shakes the earth (Hebrews 12:26-27), shall shake out these things that are made by man (the weeds), who are hypocrites to the true faith IN God and His Christ, thereby leaving the wheat.
 
K

KingdomBrat

Banned
#11
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
#11
I think acting is overrated and you can tell genuine over playing a familiar role any day. Those who God is [real to them] talk to Him all day long. The stupid silly day to day, moment to moment, things that happen and result into a conversation with our Father.

If you follow the role player all day long, they are watching those who are genuine, learning to pretend to be like them.
 
L

luigi

Junior Member
#12
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
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#12
KingdomBrat said:
I think acting is overrated and you can tell genuine over playing a familiar role any day. Those who God is [real to them] talk to Him all day long. The stupid silly day to day, moment to moment, things that happen and result into a conversation with our Father.

If you follow the role player all day long, they are watching those who are genuine, learning to pretend to be like them.
Click to expand...
And yet the Lord informs us of the wheat and the tares, and for His angels not to pull up the tares, as it would also uproot the faith of many of the wheat. This means, that much of the wheat being intertwined currently with the tares is unaware of who these tares, whom they consider to be their brothers, sisters, parents, wives, husbands, children, and other relatives and friends, are in fact, tares.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#13
#13
luigi said:
They in Matthew 25:33-40 believed IN loving their neighbor, and thus believed IN God and His Christ, even though they did not recognize their faith in love as such. In contrast, those in Matthew 7:23 who did many good works, cast out demons, and proclaimed Christ, did in fact not believe in loving their neighbor, and thus Christ declared to them that He did not know them, as they did not know love.
Click to expand...
Mathew 7:23 is because they relied on their works to merit them salvation. Read the conversation. "But we did all this stuff in your name".

What you are advocating is salvation by merit. That the pagan or the satanist who does good works will be saved, and that is just not the case.
You are leaving out many scriptures that say stuff like who ever believes and is baptized will be saved, and who ever calls upon my name will be saved, and if you deny me before men, I will deny you, the disciples preached Christ crucified not good works.
Even though a person mount up many good works he still like wise also mounts up sin, which is not out weighed by good works see the first chapter of the book of Romans, where pagan worship is condemned and and therefore given over to their sin.
 
K

KingdomBrat

Banned
#14
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
#14
luigi said:
And yet the Lord informs us of the wheat and the tares, and for His angels not to pull up the tares, as it would also uproot the faith of many of the wheat. This means, that much of the wheat being intertwined currently with the tares is unaware of who these tares, whom they consider to be their brothers, sisters, parents, wives, husbands, children, and other relatives and friends, are in fact, tares.
Click to expand...


Let me [enlighten you] brother how we got to this point of wheat/tares.

When I was a young child the Churches were against sin, spoke out against sin, denounced it, rebuked it, attacked it. We knew what victory in God was. And those early Churches of my life were on Fire. It would require a cold blooded snake to survive that environment.

I am in the middle stages of my life now and the Church only denounces one another, their Doctrine, their beliefs. The [Snake] has not only nested into a nice warm "den," but it hatches life. For many Churches, sin rules. There is no longer a majority where the [general Gospel beliefs] and [Truths] are the foundations of the Churches. We are divided. We are Conquered, it's just a matter of time until God let's the enemy take over.

We are [Desperate] for a Revival!

A genuine Revival, like those wonderful days of my youth, would char the tares to a breaking point.
 
K

KingdomBrat

Banned
#15
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
#15
But, does God wish to give those [tares] that chance?

Or, would going through the Tribulation and being forced to be beheaded be the course of action?
 
L

luigi

Junior Member
#16
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
63
#16
KingdomBrat said:
Let me [enlighten you] brother how we got to this point of wheat/tares.

When I was a young child the Churches were against sin, spoke out against sin, denounced it, rebuked it, attacked it. We knew what victory in God was. And those early Churches of my life were on Fire. It would require a cold blooded snake to survive that environment.

I am in the middle stages of my life now and the Church only denounces one another, their Doctrine, their beliefs. The [Snake] has not only nested into a nice warm "den," but it hatches life. For many Churches, sin rules. There is no longer a majority where the [general Gospel beliefs] and [Truths] are the foundations of the Churches. We are divided. We are Conquered, it's just a matter of time until God let's the enemy take over.

We are [Desperate] for a Revival!

A genuine Revival, like those wonderful days of my youth, would char the tares to a breaking point.
Click to expand...
The genuine revival you hope for is what the Lord refers to as shaking the earth again in Hebrews 12:26-27. This revival/shaking of the earth will shake out the things made by man. These things that are made by man are the tares who camouflage themselves as true believers in God and His Christ, but are not. This shaking out represents the beginning of sorrows in the Olivet discourse, at which time those who are phonies among the true believers, will hate the true believers to the point of having them put to death.

Mark 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
 
K

KingdomBrat

Banned
#17
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
#17
luigi said:
The genuine revival you hope for is what the Lord refers to as shaking the earth again in Hebrews 12:26-27. This revival/shaking of the earth will shake out the things made by man. These things that are made by man are the tares who camouflage themselves as true believers in God and His Christ, but are not. This shaking out represents the beginning of sorrows in the Olivet discourse, at which time those who are phonies among the true believers, will hate the true believers to the point of having them put to death.

Mark 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
Click to expand...

Amen!

God is a Just and Fair God. I always believed in a [Last Days/End Times Revival]. From tasting the [LIFE] in how the Old Time Believers were Marching to Glory in them Golden younger Years of my life, I always believed before I died or saw the coming of Tribulation, there would be a Final Awakening. A last Moment where God is telling all walks in life, this is Your Final Chance.

I Believe it will happen!
 
K

KingdomBrat

Banned
#19
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
#19
And what I also Believe:

Not to the exact specifics of how the Holy Spirit was evident in the Book of Acts when we first meet the Holy Spirit, But i think the Last Day outpouring of the Holy Spirit, the final time it happens, will be a Testimony that all True Believers will understand and will be witnessing and be in the [Flow] of. It will be incredible. But we will know [then] the End is around the corner.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#20
#20
The difference in non believers and believers is 18" approximately the distance from your head to your heart😉😉😉
 
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