What is meant when people say 'guns don't kill people; people do'?

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Oncefallen

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
#21
Jan 15, 2011
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#21
VickyK said:
Is anyone saying that firearms can in and of themselves do anything?
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It is more or less implied by the logic of persons who insist we have to ban firearms (or severely restrict the private ownership thereof). The problem isn't the tool but how it used by the person who possesses it.

Someone who is bent on killing someone (or a group of people) will find a way to carry out their evil regardless of the tools at their disposal. Japan has some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the world and to be honest they don't have a major problem with firearms crime, but they do have a problem with mass knife attacks (yes, it's a thing). At the same time Mexico also has highly restrictive firearms laws yet in spite of them the drug cartels have no problem obtaining them and using them to control entire populations of unarmed citizens.
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#22
Jan 15, 2021
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#22
Oncefallen said:
It is more or less implied by the logic of persons who insist we have to ban firearms (or severely restrict the private ownership thereof). The problem isn't the tool but how it used by the person who possesses it.

Someone who is bent on killing someone (or a group of people) will find a way to carry out their evil regardless of the tools at their disposal. Japan has some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the world and to be honest they don't have a major problem with firearms crime, but they do have a problem with mass knife attacks (yes, it's a thing). At the same time Mexico also has highly restrictive firearms laws yet in spite of them the drug cartels have no problem obtaining them and using them to control entire populations of unarmed citizens.
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Okay so no one has actually said guns themselves have personal agency
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Active member
#23
Jun 1, 2018
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#23
VickyK said:
Okay so no one has actually said guns themselves have personal agency
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Yet every time we talk about firearms restrictions very seldom do those who wish to restrict it ever deal with the problem of the personal agent.
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#24
Jan 15, 2021
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#24
Reformed1689 said:
Yet every time we talk about firearms restrictions very seldom do those who wish to restrict it ever deal with the problem of the personal agent.
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I can only take your word for that.


Back to the OP, what is 'guns don't kill people, people do' in response? Is anyone denying people kill people?
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Active member
#25
Jun 1, 2018
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#25
VickyK said:
I can only take your word for that.


Back to the OP, what is 'guns don't kill people, people do' in response? Is anyone denying people kill people?
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Again:


The phrase is a valid point, because ultimately the problem isn't the tool itself but the user. Getting rid of guns may provide some relief, but you still have the underlying problem that isn't dealt with.
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Is gun violence ultimately a gun access problem or a spiritual problem?
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#26
Jan 15, 2021
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#26
Reformed1689 said:
Again:





Is gun violence ultimately a gun access problem or a spiritual problem?
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Unless people are a) suggesting guns have personal agency or b) denying people kill people, I have no idea what statement the phrase is in response to.

If it isn't in response to anything, it is literally stating facts. The phrase may as well be 'water is wet, cats meow'.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Active member
#27
Jun 1, 2018
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#27
VickyK said:
Unless people are a) suggesting guns have personal agency or b) denying people kill people, I have no idea what statement the phrase is in response to.

If it isn't in response to anything, it is literally stating facts. The phrase may as well be 'water is wet, cats meow'.
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I don't know how many times and different ways I'm going to have to say this and I'm slowly becoming convinced you're trolling.

The phrase "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is trying to point out that the root problem of gun violence is in the person who perpetrates the violence.


Vicky. Let me ask you this.


Why does sin exist?
 
Billyd

Billyd

Senior Member
#28
May 8, 2014
5,228
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#28
I'm concerned about the number of firearms, and amount of ammo that has been sold during the past 12 months. How many buyers have the training that goes along with owning them? I feel that far too many have little or no training. How do others who have owned and used them? How often do you go to the range?

I have a 300 yd firing range that my family uses almost every weekend. We have been doing this for many years. Guns have been a part of our life for the last two centuries.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Active member
#29
Jun 1, 2018
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#29
Billyd said:
I'm concerned about the number of firearms, and amount of ammo that has been sold during the past 12 months. How many buyers have the training that goes along with owning them? I feel that far too many have little or no training. How do others who have owned and used them? How often do you go to the range?

I have a 300 yd firing range that my family uses almost every weekend. We have been doing this for many years. Guns have been a part of our life for the last two centuries.
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I don't go to the range often because I work nights, am married, am in school full time, and studying for my promotion test. I have been in possession and or handling guns since I was about 12. I am also currently serving in active duty if that gives you assurance of responsibility. That said, I don't think gun ownership should be restricted to someone who has taken a class. It is a right as important as free speech and religion. I should not be infringed as the constitution says.
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#30
Jan 15, 2021
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#30
Reformed1689 said:
I don't know how many times and different ways I'm going to have to say this and I'm slowly becoming convinced you're trolling.

The phrase "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is trying to point out that the root problem of gun violence is in the person who perpetrates the violence.


Vicky. Let me ask you this.


Why does sin exist?
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What makes you an authority on the phrase? Did you coin it yourself?
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#32
Jan 15, 2021
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#32
Reformed1689 said:
People should stop responding to this thread. It's clearly a joke.


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Just because you can't show me any evidence of people claiming that guns have personal agency?

Or is it because you can't show me any evidence of people claiming that people don't kill people?

Or are you offended that a phrase you possibly repeat yourself is so obvious in its truths that it's redundant?

'The sky is blue, water is wet'

I believe the above statement to be true, as does pretty much everyone. That's why I don't repeat it.
 
Billyd

Billyd

Senior Member
#33
May 8, 2014
5,228
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#33
VickyK said:
Unless people are a) suggesting guns have personal agency or b) denying people kill people, I have no idea what statement the phrase is in response to.

If it isn't in response to anything, it is literally stating facts. The phrase may as well be 'water is wet, cats meow'.
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It is simple.

A gun can lay on the table for centuries and won't harm anyone. Someone (people) decides that they are going to kill someone, they pick up the gun, load it, point it, and pull the trigger. Then, and, only the will a gun kill someone.
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#34
Jan 15, 2021
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#34
Billyd said:
It is simple.

A gun can lay on the table for centuries and won't harm anyone. Someone (people) decides that they are going to kill someone, they pick up the gun, load it, point it, and pull the trigger. Then, and, only the will a gun kill someone.
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Is anyone suggesting a gun can lay on a table for centuries and harm someone?
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#36
Jan 15, 2021
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#36
Reformed1689 said:
Why does sin exist?
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That does not answer my question.

I will afford you the courtesy of answering your question despite your refusing to answer mine. Sin exists because God created it.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#37
#37
kaylagrl said:
It's the same as someone saying a fork made them fat. You can use a fork to eat healthy or you can use it to eat pie all day. The object is in your hands and you choose whether it's used for good or ill.
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What I was going to say :LOL:
 
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SophieT

Guest
#38
#38
VickyK said:
That does not answer my question.

I will afford you the courtesy of answering your question despite your refusing to answer mine. Sin exists because God created it.
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No. God did not create sin.

The simple definition of sin is the word 'avon' meaning to miss the mark. A + E missed the mark and sin was born. AKA disobedience to God.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#39
#39
Lanolin said:
its a silly phrase meant to imply that guns arent dangerous weapons at all.
When we know they are thats why they need to be handled with care or restricted.

Its kind like saying weedkiller doesnt kill weeds, people do. Or poison isnt poisonous.
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There is no comparison there at all. We know what weed killer does. Who do you know that has stated poison is not poison? Does it occur to you that they would have to know what the properties of poison are in order to comment at all? (but of course, no one ever said that :cautious:)

Yes. Let's just restrict all legal gun owners so that criminals will have the only access :rolleyes:
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Active member
#40
Jun 1, 2018
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#40
VickyK said:
That does not answer my question.

I will afford you the courtesy of answering your question despite your refusing to answer mine. Sin exists because God created it.
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If you believe God created sin you have bigger problems than a quick retort on guns. Are you Christian?
 
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