Who are the NEPHILIM in Genesis 6

[Major]

This tends to be a highly passionate subject and people tend to want to force their opinions. I encourage you to use the SCRIPTURES to support your thoughts.

Genesis 6:3-4-5........
"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God (bene Elohim) came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

Numbers 13:30...........
"There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.”

1.
Now one view that is a popular today but is HIGHLY unbiblical is that the Nephilim are space aliens.

2.
Another view is that fallen angels bred with women and resulted in giants called Nephilim. Some believe the sons of God were the result of fallen angels who overtook ungodly men to breed with women.

3.
Then another view is that they were the Sethites (descendants of Adam’s son Seth). Along with and actually encompassing that view is that kings, rulers, or heads of leading family groups as being godly from Psalm 82. This view has many similarities to the Sethite view but eliminates many of Seth’s descendants and merely keeps with the leaders/kings (as well as some other leaders of other tribes) as godly. This view actually has more Bible support than #2 and # 1 has NO Bible support at all.

So that I do not leave you in suspense, I will tell you up front that as a Bible proponent, I believe that #3 is the correct view.

What do you think?

WHY????

So there it is.......discuss!

 

[Truth7t7]

This tends to be a highly passionate subject and people tend to want to force their opinions. I encourage you to use the SCRIPTURES to support your thoughts.

Genesis 6:3-4-5........
"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God (bene Elohim) came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

Numbers 13:30...........
"There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.”

1.
Now one view that is a popular today but is HIGHLY unbiblical is that the Nephilim are space aliens.

2.
Another view is that fallen angels bred with women and resulted in giants called Nephilim. Some believe the sons of God were the result of fallen angels who overtook ungodly men to breed with women.

3.
Then another view is that they were the Sethites (descendants of Adam’s son Seth). Along with and actually encompassing that view is that kings, rulers, or heads of leading family groups as being godly from Psalm 82. This view has many similarities to the Sethite view but eliminates many of Seth’s descendants and merely keeps with the leaders/kings (as well as some other leaders of other tribes) as godly. This view actually has more Bible support than #2 and # 1 has NO Bible support at all.

So that I do not leave you in suspense, I will tell you up front that as a Bible proponent, I believe that #3 is the correct view.

What do you think?

WHY????

So there it is.......discuss!

We are now on the 3rd thread concerning the same topic (Nephilim)

The Sons Of God were human men, that married human women

Teaching Angels have sex with human women, and maintaining human sperm is a fairytale in mythology, and false teaching.

Look There, Abram and Nahor Took Human Wives Toooo

Genesis 11:29KJV
29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.

Genesis 6:1-6KJV
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

"The Sons of God" took wives, Angel's don't marry humans, it's that simple.

Matthew 22:30KJV
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 

[Live4Him]

"The Sons of God" took wives, Angel's don't marry humans, it's that simple.

Matthew 22:30KJV
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

It may not be as simple as you claim.

In other words, just because "the angels of God IN HEAVEN" do not marry, this doesn't necessarily mean that "the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation" did not:

Jude verse 6

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Just saying.

 

[John146]

We are now on the 3rd thread concerning the same topic (Nephilim)

The Sons Of God were human men, that married human women

Teaching Angels have sex with human women, and maintaining human sperm is a fairytale in mythology, and false teaching.

Look There, Abram and Nahor Took Human Wives Toooo

Genesis 11:29KJV
29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.

Genesis 6:1-6KJV
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

"The Sons of God" took wives, Angel's don't marry humans, it's that simple.

Matthew 22:30KJV
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

When did sexual relationships between men and women produce giants in the earth?

Angels in heaven don’t marry because they’re all male.

Job describes the sons of God who were present at the creation.

Job 38
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

[Scribe]

Two other threads have been hammering on this for weeks. The sons of God are those who began to call upon the name of the Lord in Chapter 4. The daughters of men are women from Cains camp sons of men. The daughters of Cain were mentioned in Chapter 3 and Naamah sister of Tubalcain which meant Fair. Therefore when sons of God marrying daughters of men are mentioned in Gen 6:2 the Hebrew speaking reader would remember the meaning of the names of the women mentioned and knew he was talking about those in Cain's camp.

 

[Truth7t7]

It may not be as simple as you claim.

In other words, just because "the angels of God IN HEAVEN" do not marry, this doesn't necessarily mean that "the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation" did not:

Jude verse 6

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Just saying.

The angels that were thrown out of heaven became (devils) having no physical bodies, that look to inhabit humans, such as the wild man in the caves who had a Legion 1,000, or Mary Magdalene having 7

The disciples stated (devils) were subject to them, and Jesus replied in the (Same Context) he watched Satan cast out of heaven, there ya go, simple!

Luke 10:17-18KJV
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

How did the devils know Jesus Christ, from their first estate in heaven.

Mark 1:34KJV
34 And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.

 

[Truth7t7]

When did sexual relationships between men and women produce giants in the earth?

Angels in heaven don’t marry because they’re all male.

Job describes the sons of God who were present at the creation.

Job 38
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

The Sons Of God In Grnesis 6:2 Were Human Men That Married Human Women, They Took Wives, Just As All Other Humans Mentioned In The Old Testament.

The Sons Of God were human men, that married human women

Teaching Angels have sex with human women, and maintaining human sperm is a fairytale in mythology, and false teaching.

Look There, Abram and Nahor Took Human Wives Toooo

Genesis 11:29KJV
29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.

Genesis 6:1-6KJV
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

"The Sons of God" took wives, Angel's don't marry humans, it's that simple.

Matthew 22:30KJV
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 

[Scribe]

Two other threads have been hammering on this for weeks. The sons of God are those who began to call upon the name of the Lord in Chapter 4. The daughters of men are women from Cains camp sons of men. The daughters of Cain were mentioned in Chapter 3 and Naamah sister of Tubalcain which meant Fair. Therefore when sons of God marrying daughters of men are mentioned in Gen 6:2 the Hebrew speaking reader would remember the meaning of the names of the women mentioned and knew he was talking about those in Cain's camp.

I meant "The daughters of Cain were mentioned in Chapter 4..."

 

[Live4Him]

The angels that were thrown out of heaven became (devils) having no physical bodies, that look to inhabit humans, such as the wild man in the caves who had a Legion 1,000, or Mary Magdalene having 7

The disciples stated (devils) were subject to them, and Jesus replied in the (Same Context) he watched Satan cast out of heaven, there ya go, simple!

Luke 10:17-18KJV
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

How did the devils know Jesus Christ, from their first estate in heaven.

Mark 1:34KJV
34 And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.

You're going to learn pretty quickly that bold-facing and the use of exclamation points alone mean nothing.

Where to begin...?

First of all, NO angels have been "thrown out of heaven" yet, so you're mistaken right off the bat.

If you want to quote the battle between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels as described in Revelation chapter 12, whether bold-faced and with exclamation points or not, then I'll gladly prove to you, from rightly-divided scripture, that that battle hasn't yet taken place.

Second of all, the portion of scripture that I quoted from Jude equally says absolutely nothing about those angels allegedly being "thrown out of heaven".

Here it is, again:

Jude verse 6

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

The text speaks of "the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation", and it says NOTHING about them being "thrown out of heaven".

Third of all, angels oftentimes appear in the form of men on this earth. So much so that the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews gave the following admonition:

"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." (Heb. 13:2)

And last of all (for now), we know that the men of Sodom sought to have sexual relations with angels, so what does that imply?

Genesis chapter 19

[1] And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
[2] And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
[3] And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
[4] But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
[5] And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

Anyhow, as I said before, it may not be as simple as you claim.

 

[Scribe]

You're going to learn pretty quickly that bold-facing and the use of exclamation points alone mean nothing.

Where to begin...?

First of all, NO angels have been "thrown out of heaven" yet, so you're mistaken right off the bat.

If you want to quote the battle between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels as described in Revelation chapter 12, whether bold-faced and with exclamation points or not, then I'll gladly prove to you, from rightly-divided scripture, that that battle hasn't yet taken place.

Second of all, the portion of scripture that I quoted from Jude equally says absolutely nothing about those angels allegedly being "thrown out of heaven".

Here it is, again:

Jude verse 6

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

The text speaks of "the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation", and it says NOTHING about them being "thrown out of heaven".

Third of all, angels oftentimes appear in the form of men on this earth. So much so that the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews gave the following admonition:

"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." (Heb. 13:2)

And last of all (for now), we know that the men of Sodom sought to have sexual relations with angels, so what does that imply?

Genesis chapter 19

[1] And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
[2] And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
[3] And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
[4] But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
[5] And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

Anyhow, as I said before, it may not be as simple as you claim.

Concerning Jude: I understand him to be pointing out three examples of God judging. Not referencing angel sex.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Those wicked homosexuals in Sodom did not know they were angels. They thought they were strangers. The angels struck them all blind.

I do think that "left their first estate" does refer to their fall. They followed satan in his rebellion. They are reserved in chains under darkness. They are what makes up the powers of darkness.

The "like manner" of verse 7 is obviously referring to the cities around Sodom and Gomorrha that were guilty of the same sins as Sodom and Gomorrha (like manner) and has nothing to do with the same type of sins of the angels that left their habitation. That is such a gross mishandling of "like manner" in the context of verse 7 that those who present that twist make themselves to be suspect of intellectual dishonesty.

 

[Truth7t7]

You're going to learn pretty quickly that bold-facing and the use of exclamation points alone mean nothing.

Where to begin...?

First of all, NO angels have been "thrown out of heaven" yet, so you're mistaken right off the bat.

If you want to quote the battle between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels as described in Revelation chapter 12, whether bold-faced and with exclamation points or not, then I'll gladly prove to you, from rightly-divided scripture, that that battle hasn't yet taken place.

Second of all, the portion of scripture that I quoted from Jude equally says absolutely nothing about those angels allegedly being "thrown out of heaven".

Here it is, again:

Jude verse 6

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

The text speaks of "the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation", and it says NOTHING about them being "thrown out of heaven".

Third of all, angels oftentimes appear in the form of men on this earth. So much so that the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews gave the following admonition:

"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." (Heb. 13:2)

And last of all (for now), we know that the men of Sodom sought to have sexual relations with angels, so what does that imply?

Genesis chapter 19

[1] And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
[2] And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
[3] And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
[4] But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
[5] And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

Anyhow, as I said before, it may not be as simple as you claim.

We Will Strongly Disagree

2 Peter 2:4 & Jude 1:6, same Angel's that sinned, reserved in chains of darkness (Past Tense) from the writing of Peter.

(The Angel's That Sinned) Past Tense

2 Peter 2:4KJV
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6KJV
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Satan fell from heaven, was cast to earth, (Past Tense) from the words of Jesus Christ below, during his earthly ministry.

Luke 10:18KJV
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

(There Was War In Heaven) Past Tense

(He Was Cast Out Into The Earth) Past Tense

Revelation 12:7-9KJV
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[Live4Him]

Concerning Jude: I understand him to be pointing out three examples of God judging. Not referencing angel sex.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Those wicked homosexuals in Sodom did not know they were angels. They thought they were strangers. The angels struck them all blind.

I do think that "left their first estate" does refer to their fall. They followed satan in his rebellion. They are reserved in chains under darkness. They are what makes up the powers of darkness.

The "like manner" of verse 7 is obviously referring to the cities around Sodom and Gomorrha that were guilty of the same sins as Sodom and Gomorrha (like manner) and has nothing to do with the same type of sins of the angels that left their habitation. That is such a gross mishandling of "like manner" in the context of verse 7 that those who present that twist make themselves to be suspect of intellectual dishonesty.

Hi, Scribe.

I agree with some of what you said, but certainly not all of it.

For example, I agree that Jude was pointing out three examples of God's judgment.

However, personally, I do believe that the actual sins of these particular angels were sexual in nature.

I also agree that the wicked homosexuals in Sodom probably only recognized the angels as men, but that was part of the point that I was seeking to make in my earlier response...that angels oftentimes appear in the form of men.

Seeing how they can appear in the form of men, who's to say that they couldn't have male genitalia as well?

I definitely disagree with you on "their fall" part.

Contextually, the battle that we read about in Revelation chapter 12 takes place in the midst of Daniel's 70th week, and it ushers in what we would normally call "the great tribulation".

In other words, it is a fulfillment of what Daniel prophesied here:

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." (Dan. 12:1)

I also disagree with you that these particular angels who are reserved in chains under darkness are the same group of angels who presently make up the powers of darkness.

The first group is currently chained, and the second group currently is not.

We're back in agreement again as far as what "in like manner" referred to, so we do agree on some points.

Anyhow, I'm not planning on getting into a theological war with anyone here on this topic, but I simply wanted to point out that this whole issue isn't nearly as "simple" as one poster claimed it to be.

 

[Scribe]

Hi, Scribe.

I agree with some of what you said, but certainly not all of it.

For example, I agree that Jude was pointing out three examples of God's judgment.

However, personally, I do believe that the actual sins of these particular angels were sexual in nature.

I also agree that the wicked homosexuals in Sodom probably only recognized the angels as men, but that was part of the point that I was seeking to make in my earlier response...that angels oftentimes appear in the form of men.

Seeing how they can appear in the form of men, who's to say that they couldn't have male genitalia as well?

I definitely disagree with you on "their fall" part.

Contextually, the battle that we read about in Revelation chapter 12 takes place in the midst of Daniel's 70th week, and it ushers in what we would normally call "the great tribulation".

In other words, it is a fulfillment of what Daniel prophesied here:

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." (Dan. 12:1)

I also disagree with you that these particular angels who are reserved in chains under darkness are the same group of angels who presently make up the powers of darkness.

The first group is currently chained, and the second group currently is not.

We're back in agreement again as far as what "in like manner" referred to, so we do agree on some points.

Anyhow, I'm not planning on getting into a theological war with anyone here on this topic, but I simply wanted to point out that this whole issue isn't nearly as "simple" as one poster claimed it to be.

Fair enough. So what do you think about this theory of being cast down from a higher heaven to a lower "power of the air" and that they will loose that in the Dan event? So two casting down scenarios?

 

[Live4Him]

We Will Strongly Disagree

2 Peter 2:4 & Jude 1:6, same Angel's that sinned, reserved in chains of darkness (Past Tense) from the writing of Peter.

(The Angel's That Sinned) Past Tense

2 Peter 2:4KJV
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6KJV
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Satan fell from heaven, was cast to earth, (Past Tense) from the words of Jesus Christ below, during his earthly ministry.

Luke 10:18KJV
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

(There Was War In Heaven) Past Tense

(He Was Cast Out Into The Earth) Past Tense

Revelation 12:7-9KJV
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Sorry, but a lot of things that we read about in the book of Revelation have not transpired as of yet.

Jesus told John:

"Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;" (Rev. 1:19).

Obviously, not everything "which shall be hereafter" has come to pass already or else Jesus would have returned already.

I don't want to go into a long discourse on Revelation chapter 12 right now (but I will, if necessary), but that war has not transpired as of yet.

Furthermore, Jesus speaking of Satan's "fall" does not mean that he was "thrown out of heaven".

I mean, if you fall off of the roof of a house, does it mean that somebody threw you off of the same?

You're forcing meanings unto words which simply are not there.

Yes, he will be cast out of heaven eventually, but, as I type, he still has access to the third heaven where he accuses the brethren day and night before God.

Finally, what is the significance of you pointing out that the angels sinned, past tense?

Yes, and...?

We're talking about something that truly transpired in the past, so why should we expect it to be described in any other manner?

 

[Live4Him]

Fair enough. So what do you think about this theory of being cast down from a higher heaven to a lower "power of the air" and that they will loose that in the Dan event? So two casting down scenarios?

Hi, again.

Somebody asked me just the other day where I believe Satan presently resides, and I'm going to just cut and paste that response for you here, and, hopefully, it will give you a good understanding of my position and answer your question.

Here goes:

Satan's normal place of residency is in the heavenly realm.

That said, according to scripture, there are apparently 3 heavens.

For example, we read:

II Corinthians chapter 12

[1] It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
[2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
[3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)
[4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Apparently, "the third heaven" is where "paradise" is, and it's where Paul "heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter", and I believe that this is where God resides.

At times, at least, and it seems like it's daily, Satan still has access to this "third heaven".

Again, we read:

Revelation chapter 12

[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

It is my understanding that this battle between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels is yet future, and that when it eventually does take place it will be a fulfillment of that which was prophesied by the prophet Daniel:

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. " (Daniel 12:1)

I believe that when Michael stands up and when Michael and his angels fight against Satan and his angels are the same event. Notice that it will be at this yet future time when "there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time". I fully believe that this timeframe is what we would call "the great tribulation", and that is what Jesus called it in his Olivet Discourse:

Matthew chapter 24

[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Anyhow, seeing how this battle between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels is yet future, this tells us that "the accuser of our brethren", Satan, has not yet been "cast down" from "the third heaven" (II Cor. 12:2) from which he accuses the saints "before our God day and night" (Rev. 12:10).

Well, that's Satan's relation to "the third heaven", but logic tells us that if there is a "third heaven", then there also must be a first and second heaven.

To my understanding, the first heaven would simply be our atmosphere where the fowls fly, and I believe that this is supported here:

"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. " (Gen. 1:20)

Does Satan ever operate in the realm of this first heaven?

Well, we know, for certain, that he has access to this earth because he tempted Jesus in the wilderness.

We also know that he has access to this earth from the following two portions of scripture:

Job chapter 1

[6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
[7] And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job chapter 2

[1] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
[2] And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

In both of these instances, Satan presents himself "before the LORD" in what I believe is "the third heaven", and he tells the LORD that he came "from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it", so, again, it appears that Satan has access to both "the third heaven" and this earth.

Well, if there's a first heaven and a "third heaven", then there must be a second heaven lodged in between them, and there's evidence that suggests that Satan interacts in this realm as well.

For one thing, we're told that our battle as Christians is "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph. 6:12), and other Bible translations translate "high places" as either "in the heavenly realms" or "in the heavenly places".

You can verify that for yourself here:

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-12.htm

Also, seeing how our battle is not just against Satan, but "his angels" (Rev. 12:7, 9) as well, we should note that angelic battles are described for us in what seems to be the realm of the second heaven in scripture.

For example, we read:

Daniel chapter 10

[12] Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
[13] But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Here, an angel tells Daniel that he was hindered from coming to him because "the prince of the kingdom of Persia", an angelic being, "withstood me one and twenty days". In fact, "Michael, one of the chief princes" or an archangel, had to come and help him to break through this angelic heavenly battle.

I'm sorry that I had to give you such a long answer to your question, but I wanted to show you that Satan and his angels apparently presently have access to all three heavens.

In other words, contrary to what some people believe and preach, Satan has not yet been cast out of heaven, nor has he yet been confined to this earth.

 

[Scribe]

Hi, again.

Somebody asked me just the other day where I believe Satan presently resides, and I'm going to just cut and paste that response for you here, and, hopefully, it will give you a good understanding of my position and answer your question.

Here goes:

Satan's normal place of residency is in the heavenly realm.

That said, according to scripture, there are apparently 3 heavens.

For example, we read:

II Corinthians chapter 12

[1] It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
[2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
[3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)
[4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Apparently, "the third heaven" is where "paradise" is, and it's where Paul "heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter", and I believe that this is where God resides.

At times, at least, and it seems like it's daily, Satan still has access to this "third heaven".

Again, we read:

Revelation chapter 12

[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

It is my understanding that this battle between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels is yet future, and that when it eventually does take place it will be a fulfillment of that which was prophesied by the prophet Daniel:

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. " (Daniel 12:1)

I believe that when Michael stands up and when Michael and his angels fight against Satan and his angels are the same event. Notice that it will be at this yet future time when "there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time". I fully believe that this timeframe is what we would call "the great tribulation", and that is what Jesus called it in his Olivet Discourse:

Matthew chapter 24

[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Anyhow, seeing how this battle between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels is yet future, this tells us that "the accuser of our brethren", Satan, has not yet been "cast down" from "the third heaven" (II Cor. 12:2) from which he accuses the saints "before our God day and night" (Rev. 12:10).

Well, that's Satan's relation to "the third heaven", but logic tells us that if there is a "third heaven", then there also must be a first and second heaven.

To my understanding, the first heaven would simply be our atmosphere where the fowls fly, and I believe that this is supported here:

"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. " (Gen. 1:20)

Does Satan ever operate in the realm of this first heaven?

Well, we know, for certain, that he has access to this earth because he tempted Jesus in the wilderness.

We also know that he has access to this earth from the following two portions of scripture:

Job chapter 1

[6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
[7] And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job chapter 2

[1] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
[2] And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

In both of these instances, Satan presents himself "before the LORD" in what I believe is "the third heaven", and he tells the LORD that he came "from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it", so, again, it appears that Satan has access to both "the third heaven" and this earth.

Well, if there's a first heaven and a "third heaven", then there must be a second heaven lodged in between them, and there's evidence that suggests that Satan interacts in this realm as well.

For one thing, we're told that our battle as Christians is "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph. 6:12), and other Bible translations translate "high places" as either "in the heavenly realms" or "in the heavenly places".

You can verify that for yourself here:

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-12.htm

Also, seeing how our battle is not just against Satan, but "his angels" (Rev. 12:7, 9) as well, we should note that angelic battles are described for us in what seems to be the realm of the second heaven in scripture.

For example, we read:

Daniel chapter 10

[12] Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
[13] But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Here, an angel tells Daniel that he was hindered from coming to him because "the prince of the kingdom of Persia", an angelic being, "withstood me one and twenty days". In fact, "Michael, one of the chief princes" or an archangel, had to come and help him to break through this angelic heavenly battle.

I'm sorry that I had to give you such a long answer to your question, but I wanted to show you that Satan and his angels apparently presently have access to all three heavens.

In other words, contrary to what some people believe and preach, Satan has not yet been cast out of heaven, nor has he yet been confined to this earth.

Do you think "he who letteth" is Michael?

 

[Truth7t7]

Hi, again.

Somebody asked me just the other day where I believe Satan presently resides, and I'm going to just cut and paste that response for you here, and, hopefully, it will give you a good understanding of my position and answer your question.

Here goes:

Satan's normal place of residency is in the heavenly realm.

That said, according to scripture, there are apparently 3 heavens.

For example, we read:

II Corinthians chapter 12

[1] It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
[2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
[3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)
[4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Apparently, "the third heaven" is where "paradise" is, and it's where Paul "heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter", and I believe that this is where God resides.

At times, at least, and it seems like it's daily, Satan still has access to this "third heaven".

Again, we read:

Revelation chapter 12

[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

It is my understanding that this battle between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels is yet future, and that when it eventually does take place it will be a fulfillment of that which was prophesied by the prophet Daniel:

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. " (Daniel 12:1)

I believe that when Michael stands up and when Michael and his angels fight against Satan and his angels are the same event. Notice that it will be at this yet future time when "there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time". I fully believe that this timeframe is what we would call "the great tribulation", and that is what Jesus called it in his Olivet Discourse:

Matthew chapter 24

[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Anyhow, seeing how this battle between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels is yet future, this tells us that "the accuser of our brethren", Satan, has not yet been "cast down" from "the third heaven" (II Cor. 12:2) from which he accuses the saints "before our God day and night" (Rev. 12:10).

Well, that's Satan's relation to "the third heaven", but logic tells us that if there is a "third heaven", then there also must be a first and second heaven.

To my understanding, the first heaven would simply be our atmosphere where the fowls fly, and I believe that this is supported here:

"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. " (Gen. 1:20)

Does Satan ever operate in the realm of this first heaven?

Well, we know, for certain, that he has access to this earth because he tempted Jesus in the wilderness.

We also know that he has access to this earth from the following two portions of scripture:

Job chapter 1

[6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
[7] And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job chapter 2

[1] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
[2] And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

In both of these instances, Satan presents himself "before the LORD" in what I believe is "the third heaven", and he tells the LORD that he came "from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it", so, again, it appears that Satan has access to both "the third heaven" and this earth.

Well, if there's a first heaven and a "third heaven", then there must be a second heaven lodged in between them, and there's evidence that suggests that Satan interacts in this realm as well.

For one thing, we're told that our battle as Christians is "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph. 6:12), and other Bible translations translate "high places" as either "in the heavenly realms" or "in the heavenly places".

You can verify that for yourself here:

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-12.htm

Also, seeing how our battle is not just against Satan, but "his angels" (Rev. 12:7, 9) as well, we should note that angelic battles are described for us in what seems to be the realm of the second heaven in scripture.

For example, we read:

Daniel chapter 10

[12] Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
[13] But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Here, an angel tells Daniel that he was hindered from coming to him because "the prince of the kingdom of Persia", an angelic being, "withstood me one and twenty days". In fact, "Michael, one of the chief princes" or an archangel, had to come and help him to break through this angelic heavenly battle.

I'm sorry that I had to give you such a long answer to your question, but I wanted to show you that Satan and his angels apparently presently have access to all three heavens.

In other words, contrary to what some people believe and preach, Satan has not yet been cast out of heaven, nor has he yet been confined to this earth.

Satan was on earth, during the life of Job, as clearly taught in scripture below in Job 1:7

Your claim Satan's abode is currently in heaven is in my opinion borderline blasphemy, as Jesus Christ overcame Satan and death on the cross of Calvary

You have Satan and His Angels in heaven, waiting to sin and be cast out of heaven

Satan tempted the Lord for 40 days and nights on earth, demanding Jesus Christ bow and worship him (Sin), now Satan is in heaven waiting to sin and be thrown out of heaven?

That Teaching Is Way Out In Left Field, Way Out!

Job 1:7KJV
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

 

[Scribe]

Satan was on earth, during the life of Job, as clearly taught in scripture below in Job 1:7

Your claim Satan's abode is currently in heaven is in my opinion borderline blasphemy, as Jesus Christ overcame Satan and death on the cross of Calvary

You have Satan and His Angels in heaven, waiting to sin and be cast out of heaven?

Satan tempted the Lord for 40 days and nights on earth, now Satan is in heaven waiting to be thrown out?

That Teaching Is Way Out In Left Field, Way Out!

Job 1:7KJV
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

It seems that the spiritual wickedness in heavenly places that he refers to is the spiritual realm but not like Holy Angels and satan are elbow to elbow in the same places.

 

[Live4Him]

Do you think "he who letteth" is Michael?

No.

Not at all.

I'll give you my understanding of that portion of scripture at another time when I'm not so rushed as I presently am.

I can pretty much guarantee that you've never heard before what I'm going to say in relation to the same, but I also believe that if you examine it when I do share it, then you will conclude that it is accurate.

Sorry, but I'm presently involved in too many things at once.

 

[Live4Him]

Satan was on earth, during the life of Job, as clearly taught in scripture below in Job 1:7

Your claim Satan's abode is currently in heaven is in my opinion borderline blasphemy, as Jesus Christ overcame Satan and death on the cross of Calvary

You have Satan and His Angels in heaven, waiting to sin and be cast out of heaven

Satan tempted the Lord for 40 days and nights on earth, demanding Jesus Christ bow and worship him (Sin), now Satan is in heaven waiting to sin and be thrown out of heaven?

That Teaching Is Way Out In Left Field, Way Out!

Job 1:7KJV
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Great job of butchering what I actually said.

Well, now that I know you're a butcher, can I get a pound of Genoa salami and a half pound of baloney?

Oh, never mind.

You've already given me about 4 pounds of baloney...

Nighty night.