Was the Garden of Eden, literally Heaven on Earth? Was the Earth already fallen except for the Garden?

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Jan 21, 2021
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Sorry you have to be going through cancer :/

When God the Father doesn't know something in the Bible it always involves something fallen?

Genesis 3:11

And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Job 1:7

The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it."
Genesis 18:21

Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great. Because their sin is so grievous, I will go down to see if their actions fully justify the outcry that has reached Me. If not, I will find out.”
Matthew 7:23

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!​

Jesus is with children and those that believe today. God the Father isn't going to modify this reality to fix the evil until the end.

God is only good and infinite, so God is allowing this evil place to exist by limiting His knowledge of it.

Knowing the outcome is different from knowing every step there.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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So just ignore where GOD said Moses is not Prophet?
Why ignore the multiple scriptures that say Moses in a prophet?

You are merely misunderstanding the scripture. Moses was not the type of prophet who had dreams and visions but he was a prophet in a different way, direct prophecy from God rather than indirectly through dreams and visions.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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Jesus the Spirit is the potential for fallen man to open the door. That potential might be what reports the soul's sin to Jesus on the Cross.

I think our souls have Jesus's designer logo on it before becoming human. Original Sin caused us to lose direct connection to God the Father.

Jesus is the way back to the Father because the Cross created a new connection.
 
Feb 22, 2021
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Why ignore the multiple scriptures that say Moses in a prophet?

You are merely misunderstanding the scripture. Moses was not the type of prophet who had dreams and visions but he was a prophet in a different way, direct prophecy from God rather than indirectly through dreams and visions.
It is you that has not understood what a Prophet is...

Ill ask again. Why were not the 5 books of Moses included with the Prophets?
 
Jan 21, 2021
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“I was beside Him (God) as a master worker… I rejoiced over His habitable earth, And I was especially fond of the sons of men”
proverbs 8.30,31

I wonder if “sons of men” could mean there were humans without souls before Adam. Did Jesus want to give these humans souls?
 
Jan 21, 2021
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“Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness” Genesis 1.26

Is there something preventing man to have existed first before they made them in Their image? Could in Their image mean to have a soul?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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When God the Father doesn't know something
you're blaspheming again, Joe. why do you keep saying such wicked things?

God knows all things at all times. do you not even know who He is??
when He asks questions it is not for His benefit but for yours.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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you're blaspheming again, Joe. why do you keep saying such wicked things?

God knows all things at all times. do you not even know who He is??
when He asks questions it is not for His benefit but for yours.
Oh, silly me, I missed the rule that says He has to know all things at all times ..as if He can't do whatever He wants or access the information on demand.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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I'm with you, I would be totally fine leaving the awful place right now. You won't be dealing with the torment of satan in your ear anymore.
Amen over and over again. I am so thankful that I know that I am known by the Lord, for it doesn't matter what trials I go through on this wretched planet, I have already won the battle. ;)

Let's go!
 
Jan 21, 2021
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Hi, pittsburghjoe.

I have a much better term to describe what we were before the fall:

THE SUMMER.

Sorry, I couldn't resist...lol.

On a more serious note, Satan didn't cause the earth to fall, and he hasn't yet been cast out of heaven either.

In relation to this earth's fall, we read:

"For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. " (Romans 8:19-23)

Paul said that "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him", and this "him" is Adam, "who has subjected the same".

In other words, when Adam fell, everything that God had placed under his charge fell with him.

As far as Satan's fall from heaven is concerned, we read:

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. " (Revelation 12:7-12)

This yet-future angelic battle which will result in Satan and his angels being cast down to this earth was first prophesied by the prophet Daniel:

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. " (Daniel 12:1)

In both Daniel's and John's prophecies, the time of Satan's casting down to this earth after his battle with Michael triggers "a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" or what we would call "the great tribulation".

When he is cast down, Satan will come down "having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time", and in several places in the Bible we are told that this "short time" is 3 1/2 years.

Looking back at my citation from the book of Revelation, hopefully you noticed that, prior to his casting down which hasn't yet occurred, Satan is called "the accuser of our brethren" or the one "which accused them before our God day and night". These accusations are still taking place as I write in heaven. In fact, in the book of Job, which transpired long after the events transpired in the garden of Eden, Satan is seen appearing before God in heaven with other angels (Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2).

I hope that this helps to answer some of your questions.
1 John 4:3
This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Pretty sure this is where the Roman Catholic Church starts up.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Oh, silly me, I missed the rule that says He has to know all things at all times ..as if He can't do whatever He wants or access the information on demand.
we're not making up a god that fits our imaginations, Joe.

i can point you to many places to teach you this from scripture ((if you will even listen to scripture?)) but why not here:

Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight.
Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

(Hebrews 4:13)
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Where is he called a Prophet? Where does it say by GOD that Moses is a Prophet?
Deuteronomy 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face


Moses is a "type" ... the Lord Jesus Christ is the fulfillment
 
Feb 22, 2021
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Deuteronomy 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face


Moses is a "type" ... the Lord Jesus Christ is the fulfillment
There not arose not a Prophet doesn't mean Moses is a prophet. It means there hasn't been anyone greater than moses in Israel.

Moses is the Law. How can all of you be so far from this truth?
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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There not arose not a Prophet doesn't mean Moses is a prophet. It means there hasn't been anyone greater than moses in Israel.

Moses is the Law. How can all of you be so far from this truth?
You are the only one far from the truth. That verse means there hasn't been any greater prophet than Moses in Israel at the time of that writing. Indeed, even now Moses is one of the greatest prophets of the bible.

https://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/messiah/moses.shtml

The Prophecies in the Books of Moses

The Prophet Moses, living 1500 years before the birth of Christ, recorded in his books the most ancient prophecies about the Savior of the world, which in the course of many millennia were kept through the oral legends of the Jews. Our foreparents, Adam and Eve, heard the first prediction of the Messiah in Eden, right after their savoring of the forbidden fruit. Then God told the devil, who had taken on the appearance of a snake: “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: it shall bruise [destroy] thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel” (Gen. 3:15). With these words the Lord passed judgment on the devil and consoled our foreparents with the promise that at some time a Descendant of the Woman will strike the “head” itself of the snake-devil, who tempted them. But along with this, the woman’s Descendant Himself will suffer from the snake, who will as if “bruise his heel,” i.e., will cause Him physical suffering. Noteworthy also in this first prophecy is the nomenclature of the Messiah as the “Seed of the Woman,” which points to His extraordinary birth of a Woman, Who will conceive without the participation of a man. Here the absence of a physical father is significant considering in Old Testament times descendants were always identified paternally, not maternally. The given prophecy about the extraordinary birth of the Messiah is supported with a later prophecy of Isaiah (7:14), which we will discuss further on. According to the translations of the Targums of Onkelos (a number of translations or paraphrases of the various divisions of the Hebrew Old Testament in the Aramaic language) and of Jonathan, the Jews always considered the prophecy of the Seed of the Woman as pertaining to the Messiah. This prophecy about bruising was fulfilled, when the Lord Jesus Christ, having suffered on the Cross with His body, defeated the devil — that “old serpent” (Rev. 20:2) and took away from him any power over the human race.

The second prophecy about the Messiah is also found in the book of Genesis and speaks of the blessing, which will extend to all people from Him. This is spoken to the righteous Abraham, when he, through his willingness to bring his only son Isaac as a sacrifice, revealed his extreme devotion and obedience to God. Then God through an Angel promised to Abraham: “And in thy Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice” (Gen. 22:18).

In the original text of this prophecy the word “Seed” stands in the singular, thus indicating, that in this promise the question is not about many, but about one definite Descendant, from Whom the blessing will extend to all people. The Jews always attributed this prophecy to the Messiah, understanding it, nevertheless, in the sense that the blessing must extend mainly on the chosen people. In the sacrifice, Abraham was the prototype of God the Father, and Isaac — of the Son of God, who would suffer on the cross. This parallel is mentioned in the Gospel, where it is said: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). The importance of this prophecy about the blessing of all nations in the Descendant of Abraham is evident from the fact, that God confirmed His promise with a vow.

The third prophecy about the Messiah was pronounced by the patriarch Jacob, the grandson of Abraham, when before his death, he blessed his 12 sons and predicted the future fate of his descendants. For Judah he predicted: “The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come, and unto him shall the gathering of the people be” (Gen. 49:10). According to the translation of the 70 interpreters this prophecy has the following alternative: “until comes He, to Whom it is given (determined) to come, and He will be the hope of nations.” Here the scepter symbolizes power. This prophecy states that the descendants of Judah will have their own leaders and lawgivers until the time when the Messiah-Shiloh (Conciliator) comes. The word Shiloh (Conciliator) reveals a new feature in the characterization of His activities: He will eliminate the enmity between people and God, arising as a result of sin (the Angels sang about this elimination of hostility between heaven and earth when Christ was born: “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth PEACE, good will toward men” (Luke 2:14).