Is Science showing us Creation is still happening?

[pittsburghjoe]

If wave collapse is something that disconnects from God then reconnecting with Him is entanglement.

Original Sin caused us to disconnect from God.

To become one with God is to entangle with Him.

 

[posthuman]

If wave collapse is something that disconnects from God then reconnecting with Him is entanglement.

Original Sin caused us to disconnect from God.

To become one with God is to entangle with Him.

when you were talking about coherence/incoherence before, i tried to make the point that things can be out-of-phase and still 'coherent' because coherence is about the difference in phase remaining the same.
becoming one with God is resonant; it's being in-phase. it's a sub-category of coherence, which means it's not coherence; it's something else more definite. like entanglement, yes

 

[posthuman]

when you were talking about coherence/incoherence before, i tried to make the point that things can be out-of-phase and still 'coherent' because coherence is about the difference in phase remaining the same.
becoming one with God is resonant; it's being in-phase. it's a sub-category of coherence, which means it's not coherence; it's something else more definite. like entanglement, yes

@pittsburghjoe


decoherence is when the phase-difference varies over time. the act of repentance is decoherent in that sense, because we are changing from being in-phase with sin to being in-phase with righteousness

-- but so is the act of falling away or backsliding; of failing. those are decoherent because over some time interval we are going out-of-phase


but ultimately, He is bringing us in-phase with Him; being conformed to His image. this process has to be decoherent over one time interval, because it is a change in us as sinners coming to holiness. but in eternity -- that's coherent, we remain entangled with Him, moving from betrothed to becoming His bride.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

@pittsburghjoe


decoherence is when the phase-difference varies over time. the act of repentance is decoherent in that sense, because we are changing from being in-phase with sin to being in-phase with righteousness

I like it, can disorder still be involved with sin?

 

[posthuman]

I like it, can disorder still be involved with sin?

i do think that entropy in the physical universe is a result of sin and a physical representation of it. i personally don't think it was present in creation until Genesis 3
but, we're speculating of course. i could be wrong as easily as anyone else could be -- even so i think decay is a natural correspondence to the result of eating from the tree of "surely die" -- that phrase in Hebrew is literally in the day you eat of it, dying you shall die.

entropy isn't strictly decay -- the physical law states that disorder does not decrease. that means it can stay the same; there could be no increase in entropy and no decrease either, and that's in keeping with what we observe in the universe. i think this is the best that other religions can do - cease from sin in the limiting case, but not atone for it - it's kind of clear to see in something like Buddhism where virtue is adding no harm or suffering to the world. reaching a state of non-being. entropy isn't increasing when that's followed perfectly, but it doesn't decrease. only through the cross does entropy decrease in the spiritual sense; that's where sin is forgiven which is different from being stopped from increasing -- my opinion

 

[posthuman]

only through the cross does entropy decrease in the spiritual sense; that's where sin is forgiven which is different from being stopped from increasing -- my opinion

you had asked me in another thread if you could sell me on the idea of alternate histories.

honestly yeah, maybe you can: there is a really, really profound mystery concerning forgiveness of sin, because God - who axiomatically ((IMO)) knows all things at all times - says He will remember our sins no more. that's mind-blowing, because His godhood includes His omniscience. how does omniscience forget? that's an huge question

so your thoughts about how strands of possible time-like manifolds are in a sense chosen through free-will interaction in the probability space, defining a 'true history' via a mechanism of observed causal paths, is really interesting. there's a constraint at play in my mind here because i know where/how that 'history manifold' becomes realized: this happens at the cross. because we're talking about forgiveness of sin: therefore the mechanism of the forgiveness of sin is the counterpart to the physically analogous representation. the way that, before God, a 'sinless history' is actualized is through faith in the death and resurrection of Messiah, and i think it is a bit of a 'rule' that the truth about how the universe works reflects the truth of how the Creator works, that is, His fingerprints are on it.

if there's some analogous aspect of the backwards-definition of history via observation-wave-collapse it needs to be connected to the crucifixion and our baptism into it. that seems to me to be how it has to work. that's how it will be framed when we understand it right; it will be framed in a way that testifies of and glorifies Christ, which in this case has to do with our being born again into life through identifying ourselves in His death and being thereby brought into phase also with His resurrection

 

[posthuman]

see, i have been paying attention lol

you and i are natural friends. i may seem mean sometimes but that's because if there's one thing i learned from math it's that you have to be really really really rigorous to get to the bottom of things; that's how you find the most wonderful truths. so i'm trying to be hyper-critical on purpose. the Truth can stand up to any criticism, no matter how harsh - criticism refines it and we see it more and more clearly

 

[pittsburghjoe]

you had asked me in another thread if you could sell me on the idea of alternate histories.

honestly yeah, maybe you can: there is a really, really profound mystery concerning forgiveness of sin, because God - who axiomatically ((IMO)) knows all things at all times - says He will remember our sins no more. that's mind-blowing, because His godhood includes His omniscience. how does omniscience forget? that's an huge question

so your thoughts about how strands of possible time-like manifolds are in a sense chosen through free-will interaction in the probability space, defining a 'true history' via a mechanism of observed causal paths, is really interesting. there's a constraint at play in my mind here because i know where/how that 'history manifold' becomes realized: this happens at the cross. because we're talking about forgiveness of sin: therefore the mechanism of the forgiveness of sin is the counterpart to the physically analogous representation. the way that, before God, a 'sinless history' is actualized is through faith in the death and resurrection of Messiah, and i think it is a bit of a 'rule' that the truth about how the universe works reflects the truth of how the Creator works, that is, His fingerprints are on it.

if there's some analogous aspect of the backwards-definition of history via observation-wave-collapse it needs to be connected to the crucifixion and our baptism into it. that seems to me to be how it has to work. that's how it will be framed when we understand it right; it will be framed in a way that testifies of and glorifies Christ, which in this case has to do with our being born again into life through identifying ourselves in His death and being thereby brought into phase also with His resurrection

It strikes me that the first Adam and the last Adam might be key points in these time manifolds.

 

[posthuman]

but ultimately, He is bringing us in-phase with Him; being conformed to His image. this process has to be decoherent over one time interval, because it is a change in us as sinners coming to holiness. but in eternity -- that's coherent, we remain entangled with Him, moving from betrothed to becoming His bride.

this tells us that our observation of time will change in the resurrection. we'll see coherence with Him, "forgetting the former things" -- we will measure a different time interval than the ones over which we were decoherent; we'll see how He was working all things for our good

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Are quantum effects related to all possible paths of waves?

Can tunneling happen when there was a possible path to allow it?

Would a decohered particle only have one path?

Is entanglement when two particles share the same "all possible paths"?

Can we quantum entangle with God because entanglement is timeless?

Does the delayed choice quantum eraser already demonstrate disregard for time?

The Cross is The Way out of this fallen reality. Our souls entangle to God when we open the door.

 

[posthuman]

It strikes me that the first Adam and the last Adam might be key points in these time manifolds.

in a sense salvation is to cease being observed by THE OBSERVER as entangled with the first Adam, instead being observed as entangled with the Last Adam. Christ, THE LIGHT, is the mechanism through which we become observed this way, via grace through faith. faith is like reflection; perfect faith includes no failure in transmission of that Light

 

[pittsburghjoe]

I wonder if Jesus on the Cross could be our link back to the Garden.

 

[posthuman]

We are not "the heavens"

allow me to prove it to you @birdie

God is in heaven, and thou upon earth
(Ecclesiastes 5:2)
​

see if you can say with all your body, soul, mind and spirit nothing other than "holy holy holy is the LORD God Almighty" for 10 years without pause

no?

there is an ideal which He will realize in us, that we don't yet attain: but when He returns and makes all things complete, we will
IMO that's where this speaks of us spiritually; in the meantime the way He made what He created is all testifying of Him. the fundamental physics and cosmology of all that is in the universe is demonstrating truth about who He is. i think Joe's on the right track in that sense, looking for how. i don't think anything like 'don't bother Creation doesn't have anything to do with the Creator' is a good answer.

 

[posthuman]

I wonder if Jesus on the Cross could be our link back to the Garden.

i think He's the flaming sword keeping the way

"His rod and His staff, they comfort me"​

 

[Lanolin]

the cross was made from the wood from a tree for sure. It might have been the one that was forbidden n the garden...who knows?!

 

[pittsburghjoe]

the cross was made from the wood from a tree for sure. It might have been the one that was forbidden n the garden...who knows?!

WOW! That would be something.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

This whole place is fallen, so I don't know if it would be necessary to be that exact tree ..but God the Father could have easily arranged for the wood for the cross to be from that tree.

 

[notuptome]

WOW! That would be something.

Certainly is wild speculation. God completed creation and rested on the seventh day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[pittsburghjoe]

God wasn't a fan of Cain's sacrifice of vegetables ..the Earth is fallen ..blood is not.

 

[Kolistus]

No

The only creation God is doing now is the new creation, not only of people in Christ, but one day in the future, New Heaven and New Earth. Praise His Name for all He has done and will do.