Why do Calvinists believe things the bible doesnt say ?

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my thoughts are its because they want to be calvinists and join the calvinist club or their systemic theology books would go out of print.
 
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throughfaith said:
This is a serious question .
Let's look at ' regeneration precedes faith ' This doctrine colours the calvinists entire way they view the bible. You would think they have a verse which actually says this or a verse that says man cannot believe the Gospel. What you will find with all 5 points of Calvinism, is that all their major Doctrines do not have a verse that says what they believe.
All it would take to prove any of their major Doctrines would be a verse that SAYS what they claim the bible ' teaches ' . What Calvinism is built on is ' syllogism s' ..Each major Doctrine never has any verse actually saying what they claim, so it has to be inferred . Like this ' Because we know point a) is this ,this leads to b) and therfore leads to c) and the result is d) . Without fail this is Calvinism in a nut shell .
Watch out for this is conversation . They will usually want to set the premise first. Starting with a point you may agree upon . Basically something like this. Usually starting with the will of man. " You agree that man is totally depraved dont you ? " Erm yes I think so "
Well he cannot do anything good or anything to please God right ? " I guess so " , well believing the Gospel would be a good thing right " , Sure " , Well how does he come to believe the Gospel then " ....
Another one is " Why did you believe the Gospel and another didn't, were you more clever ?

Then the atonement/ universalism trick .
" You don't believe Jesus died for all without exception do you ? that would make you a universalist right? So you do believe the atonement is limited correct? Well we also, limited to whom God chose before the foundation of the world. We all believe in limited atonement right?
Ok if you can't see what's wrong in the last point it may be because you also have calvinistic presuppositions that need letting go of .
Thought s ?
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If we are to believe what some people post, this forum is filled with people that believe what the Bible does not teach and few are Calvinists.
 
DWR said:
If we are to believe what some people post, this forum is filled with people that believe what the Bible does not teach and few are Calvinists.
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Correct. I dare say we all have some baggage that needs checking . I had a ton of calvinistic presuppositions/ leanings and I've never been a Calvinist. When it was pointed out ,it was quite unsettling.
 
oyster67 said:
As it should be. I have known young men who have confessed sin and then been told by their "pastor" that they did not need to repent because they were born again at an earlier time and could never forfeit their Salvation.
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WHAT! Even the no-repentance crowd like the Independent fundamental baptists (The KJVOnly cult variety) believe in forsaking sin AFTER you are saved. Sure they love to tell you in every turn its got nothing to do with salvation, but they do preach against sin and tell people to turn from it.

BUT HEY, im not here to call you a liar, GOD ONLY KNOWS how garbage some pastors are today, so everything is possible. In 2021 NOTHING will surprise me anymore. We've seen christian witches, we've seen dancing cowboys, we've seen fruity loops congregations with the backstreet boys moaning to the microphone, we've seen ecumenical apostasy, we've seen "LOVE" advertised to the point of distorting it to mean a woodstock festival.

Whatever this pastor was, he was no calvinist in the traditional sense of the word, as calvinists DO believe in faith and repentance and preach and teach it. You are mixing it up with the easy believism crowd, which is a different crowd all together, they basically copied the "once saved always saved" but removed the verses about holy living and repentance that was originally taught ALONG with eternal security. This was done cause the movement was started YESTERDAY by Americans who turned the gospel into a happy meal at Mickey D's!
 
throughfaith said:
The biggest issue in Christianity is no matter to be sniffed at .
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Biggest issue in Christianity? When we got roman catholicism around? When we got as I said earlier: We've seen christian witches, we've seen dancing cowboys, we've seen fruity loops congregations with the backstreet boys moaning to the microphone, we've seen ecumenical apostasy, we've seen "LOVE" advertised to the point of distorting it to mean a woodstock festival.


So yeah... CALVINISM is the biggest issue going. To be honest this whole debate about Calvinism, Arminianism, Free will, Predestination is UTTERLY meaningless in our daily lives. It does absolutely nothing. People in BOTH camps live holy and terrible lives, no matter what they believe. Its all just philosophicla meaningless debate, the issues I mentioned above are REAL problems because they are something "Christians" actually DO in real life. Their BEHAVIOR.

So much emphasis on DOCTRINE instead of BEHAVIOR nowadays.
 
Hevosmies said:
Biggest issue in Christianity? When we got roman catholicism around? When we got as I said earlier: We've seen christian witches, we've seen dancing cowboys, we've seen fruity loops congregations with the backstreet boys moaning to the microphone, we've seen ecumenical apostasy, we've seen "LOVE" advertised to the point of distorting it to mean a woodstock festival.


So yeah... CALVINISM is the biggest issue going. To be honest this whole debate about Calvinism, Arminianism, Free will, Predestination is UTTERLY meaningless in our daily lives. It does absolutely nothing. People in BOTH camps live holy and terrible lives, no matter what they believe. Its all just philosophicla meaningless debate, the issues I mentioned above are REAL problems because they are something "Christians" actually DO in real life. Their BEHAVIOR.

So much emphasis on DOCTRINE instead of BEHAVIOR nowadays.
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Calvinism manages to look 'serious, sensible and scholarly. This is its appeal. A lot of folks won't question it because it sneaks in the back door unnoticed. It's considered orthodox, ' historical and the ' thinking man's choice. If you take just a few of the most popular searches on the Internet on christianity its sites like Got questions , DesiringGod ( ,John piper ) , ligioneer, Carm . Anyone looking for a bible question ,these are the first ones they will come across.
 
Hevosmies said:
Biggest issue in Christianity? When we got roman catholicism around? When we got as I said earlier: We've seen christian witches, we've seen dancing cowboys, we've seen fruity loops congregations with the backstreet boys moaning to the microphone, we've seen ecumenical apostasy, we've seen "LOVE" advertised to the point of distorting it to mean a woodstock festival.


So yeah... CALVINISM is the biggest issue going. To be honest this whole debate about Calvinism, Arminianism, Free will, Predestination is UTTERLY meaningless in our daily lives. It does absolutely nothing. People in BOTH camps live holy and terrible lives, no matter what they believe. Its all just philosophicla meaningless debate, the issues I mentioned above are REAL problems because they are something "Christians" actually DO in real life. Their BEHAVIOR.

So much emphasis on DOCTRINE instead of BEHAVIOR nowadays.
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A theology that actually says Jesus did not die for everyone? How did that sneak into christianity ? Regeneration precedes faith ? Wow ! how did that take off ? Yes it emphasises 'behaviour ' any denomination that teaches lordship salvation will have this exterior .And yes Augustine has had big influence on Catholicism and Calvinism/ Arminsim and has permeated almost all denominations . So yeah no big deal?
 
throughfaith said:
That's your opinion . Its my contention that you are in error by using Acts 2.38 as a plan of salvation ,so likewise I could say the same . And I think I can contend against calvinism as a false system. Am I violating any rules here ?
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Samaritans, and Gentiles, received the same message as Peter preached to the Jews for they were baptized in the name Jesus, and received the Holy Ghost.

So it was not only for the Jews.

We have a choice in our salvation because God is love and His kingdom is love, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice in their salvation.

Many are called but few are chosen.

When God calls a person He will work with that person to get them to the truth but when they get to the truth they have to decide to go through the door because God's kingdom is love, but they would of not gotten to the door of truth unless God intervened in their life.

No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

No person says Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Ghost.

Peter said Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God, and Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal that to Him but the Father.

It takes God to intervene in our life to guide us to the truth but we have to decide to accept the truth for God's kingdom is love.

Which not everyone accepts the truth which is why many are called but few are chosen, and if God choses in the beginning who will be saved why is He calling people but not choosing them, and that is because they never get to the door of truth, or they do not enter the door of truth.

Calvinism is dangerous because it says God chooses who will be saved in the beginning, and condemns people who have no choice concerning salvation, but God's kingdom is love so He gave us a choice, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice in their salvation.

All are sinners that have come short of the glory of God.

There is none that does good, no, not one.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

There is no good thing that dwells in the flesh.

If you offend in the least of the law you offend in all.

God is no respecter of persons.

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son.

Why would God be choosing people to be saved in the beginning when all people are the same.

Predestination does not mean God chooses who will be saved in the beginning without their choice in the matter, but it means that God had the plan to give people salvation at the foundation of the world.

The Bible says God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning.

The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.

The prophets blood was slain from the foundation of the world.

The Word of God that was in the beginning is the plan of God to come in the future in flesh.
 
MattforJesus said:
Samaritans, and Gentiles, received the same message as Peter preached to the Jews for they were baptized in the name Jesus, and received the Holy Ghost.

So it was not only for the Jews.

We have a choice in our salvation because God is love and His kingdom is love, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice in their salvation.

Many are called but few are chosen.

When God calls a person He will work with that person to get them to the truth but when they get to the truth they have to decide to go through the door because God's kingdom is love, but they would of not gotten to the door of truth unless God intervened in their life.

No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

No person says Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Ghost.

Peter said Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God, and Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal that to Him but the Father.

It takes God to intervene in our life to guide us to the truth but we have to decide to accept the truth for God's kingdom is love.

Which not everyone accepts the truth which is why many are called but few are chosen, and if God choses in the beginning who will be saved why is He calling people but not choosing them, and that is because they never get to the door of truth, or they do not enter the door of truth.

Calvinism is dangerous because it says God chooses who will be saved in the beginning, and condemns people who have no choice concerning salvation, but God's kingdom is love so He gave us a choice, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice in their salvation.

All are sinners that have come short of the glory of God.

There is none that does good, no, not one.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

There is no good thing that dwells in the flesh.

If you offend in the least of the law you offend in all.

God is no respecter of persons.

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son.

Why would God be choosing people to be saved in the beginning when all people are the same.

Predestination does not mean God chooses who will be saved in the beginning without their choice in the matter, but it means that God had the plan to give people salvation at the foundation of the world.

The Bible says God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning.

The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.

The prophets blood was slain from the foundation of the world.

The Word of God that was in the beginning is the plan of God to come in the future in flesh.
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Why do you pick this verse " No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them." This was happening prior to John 12.32 . Do you have a verse that supercedes John 12.32 after the cross ?
 
oyster67 said:
John
3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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And, again, none of these scriptures implies let alone explicitly states any "ability " of natural man to "make a free-will choice" for Jesus. There simply are none such scriptures. And who can "do truth" and come to the light but the children of God? None else can or will.
 
tribesman said:
And, again, none of these scriptures implies let alone explicitly states any "ability " of natural man to "make a free-will choice" for Jesus. There simply are none such scriptures. And who can "do truth" and come to the light but the children of God? None else can or will.
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This is so knotted and convoluted that I don't think there is any fix to it. You take obvious Scriptural Truth and deny it. All of us know that Jesus shed His Blood to make Salvation freely available to all. Why you would seek to openly and blatantly undermine obvious Gospel Truth befixes and befuddles me.
 
oyster67 said:
This is so knotted and convoluted that I don't think there is any fix to it. You take obvious Scriptural Truth and deny it. All of us know that Jesus shed His Blood to make Salvation freely available to all. Why you would seek to openly and blatantly undermine obvious Gospel Truth befixes and befuddles me.
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Who are the "all of us" that you speak on behalf of? There is no undermining here, rather it is to show who does the work in salvation: God, not man. I have denied none of what you mention. What I do not agree with are the humanistic ideas of arminianism, which denies total depravity of man. If you do not know what total depravity means and what Luther and Calvin taught on this matter, then you may study same, and you will see what it means. I believe nothing else, on this issue, than what they did.
 
tribesman said:
If you do not know what total depravity means and what Luther and Calvin taught on this matter, then you may study same, and you will see what it means. I believe nothing else, on this issue, than what they did.
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Why are you so deeply invested in these men???? Total depravity describes them well.:confused:
 
oyster67 said:
Why are you so deeply invested in these men???? Total depravity describes them well.:confused:
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Of course, no one reach your heights. Sort of proves the point of the root of synergism. Where do you go to church, if any?
 
Why do Calvinists believe things the bible doesnt say ?

Perhaps for the same reason

Arminians believe things the bible doesn't say.
 
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