If the papacy is the first beast, why don't we consider the spanish inquisition to be the second?

[pittsburghjoe]

“God has called her acts of injustice to mind. Render to her even as she herself rendered, and do to her twice the number of things she did…she will be completely burned with fire…because…God…judged her" Re 18:5, 6, 8

Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

[Ahwatukee]

“God has called her acts of injustice to mind. Render to her even as she herself rendered, and do to her twice the number of things she did…she will be completely burned with fire…because…God…judged her" Re 18:5, 6, 8

Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Yes, this is the pagan system of Roman Catholicism. She is the woman of chapter 17 & 18 who rides the beast. God is calling out those who have been deceived by her to come out of her so that they do not partake of the plagues that are going to be poured out on her.

The reference to her 'riding the beast' is that she is going to use the antichrists rise to power to establish her religious authority. Within the RCC's dogma, all people are to come under the authority of the pope. However, she currently does not have the power to enforce that. But when that antichrist comes, she will use him to obtain that authority and that by force for many.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

You are saying
little horn = papacy
whore = church's that bow to the papacy
false prophet = ? ..why can't it be the spanish inquisition?

I don't think there is a time frame between the second beast and Judgement.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

If this stuff already happened ..it would mean the mark is already available. It's always been about God's Law/Love vs the carnal perception.

Jesus didn't tell us the Temple is inside us for the fun of it.

We should start seeing plagues ..a virus.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

If we defile the temple of God ..we have the mark of the beast ..and God will destroy ..JUDGEMENT

 

[pittsburghjoe]

If the three angels' messages (REV 14:6, 14:8, 14:9) already happened, does that mean the beasts in Rev 13 did also?

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

I agree! But my point is that the second beast he is not the antichrist, but will play the part of the false prophet. He will be the one who will perform those miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast/antichrist and that to give him credibility as the one who will be proclaiming to be God.

Interesting. Escatology is not my field of knowledge. I have read much of that stuff and have no idea what some of it means.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Interesting. Escatology is not my field of knowledge. I have read much of that stuff and have no idea what some of it means.

God bless you for your honesty. But its not too late to dig in. All I would suggest is to not to symbolize the entire book, as some have done and teach. The way that it should be read is that 'if the literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense."

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Two Witnesses of Revelation 11

Fire came out of both mouths ..it was the Word of the Lord

They wore cheap clothing ..it was in reference to the people spreading The Word during persecutions

1260 years is how long the Witnesses Testified

The Two Witnesses are the Old and New Testament

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Revelation 13:16
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

It says IN not ON!!!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Two Witnesses of Revelation 11

Fire came out of both mouths ..it was the Word of the Lord

They wore cheap clothing ..it was in reference to the people spreading The Word during persecutions

1260 years is how long the Witnesses Testified

The Two Witnesses are the Old and New Testament

The two witnesses will be two literal men, who will be on the earth during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. They will do just as scripture says, by shutting up the sky so that it doesn't rain during the time of their prophesying and to bring as plagues as many time as they want and literal fire will issue forth from their mouths to destroy anyone attempting to kill them before their time is up. These two men will be literally kill with their bodies literally lying in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days at the end of which they will resurrect and ascend up into heaven while the world watches in fear.

There is nothing in the context to apply an allegorical, spiritual or symbolic meaning to these two men. To do so is to distort God's meaning.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

The two witnesses will be two literal men, who will be on the earth during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. They will do just as scripture says, by shutting up the sky so that it doesn't rain during the time of their prophesying and to bring as plagues as many time as they want and literal fire will issue forth from their mouths to destroy anyone attempting to kill them before their time is up. These two men will be literally kill with their bodies literally lying in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days at the end of which they will resurrect and ascend up into heaven while the world watches in fear.

There is nothing in the context to apply an allegorical, spiritual or symbolic meaning to these two men. To do so is to distort God's meaning.

pretty cool the way they are going to shoot fire out our their mouths.

You're not getting what prophetic time is

 

[Ahwatukee]

pretty cool the way they are going to shoot fire out our their mouths.

You're not getting what prophetic time is

So, you don't believe that God is able to make that happen?

There is nothing in the context that would lead the believer anything but a literal interpretation. God could have given us bodies to live on Venus with to withstand the continues 900 degree temperatures and given us rocks for our food, if He wanted. Why is it so difficult to believe that God could have these two men issue fire from their mouths to kill their enemies, which by the way is exactly what it says they will do. When you change it like that, you distort the literal meaning of God's word.

Regarding 'prophetic time' these are the kinds of man made things that distort the word of God. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are going to be literal plagues of wrath, affecting literal people, on this literal earth.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

spanish inquisition
1 November 1478 - 15 July 1834

They were all about killing whoever didn't worship the image of the beast:

Revelation 13:15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

The middle ages papacy was foretold about as the 2nd beast of Rev 13. The Spanish Inquisition was just a small part of the 2nd beast.

Remember: 2nd beast works in conjunction with the 1st beast.
The pope (2nd beast) worked with the Spanish monarchy (1st beast) to carry out the inquisition.

The Spanish Inquisition was unique in that it was established by secular rulers, King Ferdinand II and Queen Isabella, with the approval of Pope Sixtus IV. The monarchy was Catholic, and it had just united two kingdoms, Aragon and Castile, as a single country in the late 15th century.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

The two witnesses will be two literal men, who will be on the earth during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.

One can speculate this, But No one can know this. Sorry to tell you this Ahwatukee!!!

The bible is written in such a way that no one can interpret correctly the prophesy until after it is fulfilled. Only after fulfillment might someone be able to piece the pieces together and understand.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

The middle ages papacy was foretold about as the 2nd beast of Rev 13. The Spanish Inquisition was just a small part of the 2nd beast.

Remember: 2nd beast works in conjunction with the 1st beast.
The pope (2nd beast) worked with the Spanish monarchy (1st beast) to carry out the inquisition.

The Spanish Inquisition was unique in that it was established by secular rulers, King Ferdinand II and Queen Isabella, with the approval of Pope Sixtus IV. The monarchy was Catholic, and it had just united two kingdoms, Aragon and Castile, as a single country in the late 15th century.

I'm open to it, but the papacy came about before all that ..and they were monsters.

two kingdoms ..two horns

 

[pittsburghjoe]

The middle ages papacy was foretold about as the 2nd beast of Rev 13. The Spanish Inquisition was just a small part of the 2nd beast.

Remember: 2nd beast works in conjunction with the 1st beast.
The pope (2nd beast) worked with the Spanish monarchy (1st beast) to carry out the inquisition.

The Spanish Inquisition was unique in that it was established by secular rulers, King Ferdinand II and Queen Isabella, with the approval of Pope Sixtus IV. The monarchy was Catholic, and it had just united two kingdoms, Aragon and Castile, as a single country in the late 15th century.

This is mind blowing if you are right about those two kingdoms. Horns are usually related to kingdoms in the Bible. The second beast has two horns.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

I'm open to it, but the papacy came about before all that ..and they were monsters.

two kingdoms ..two horns

First Idea:
If you count all the horns of the 1st beast of revelation it's the same number of horns as all 4 beasts from Daniel 7.
If you count all the heads of the 1st beast of revelation it's the same number of horns as all 4 beasts from Daniel 7.
Also the lion bear and leopard from Daniel 7 are repeated in Revelation 13.

The 1st beast of Revelation is a summation or compilation of all the beasts to come after Jesus of Nazerath Defeated Satan in 1st Century AD.
The 1st beast is not one man or one empire. It is a representation of all the beasts (empires) to come.

Now the Daniel beasts were empires and so the Revelation 1st beast is a representation of all the empires to come that will attack us.

How does the 1st beast attack us? It attacks us along with the 2nd beast.

For the 1st beast of Rev notice how all the horns have diadems, and all the heads have blasphemous names on them. All the horns attack with a diadem. All the heads attack with a blasphaemous name.

In Daniel 7 all the horns and all the heads are without crowns or diadems... why?
Because you see in Babylon Nebuchadnezzer was king over the empire, but he was also ruler over the religion ( he set up a golden image).

Also in the Roman empire the Roman Emperor was both King and high priest. He worked alone until Constantine made "peace" with christianity and made the pope high priest.
Here was the beginnings of the 1st and 2nd Beast working in tandem.

In Revelation the king will rule the government (1st beast/head)
and the highest religious figure will rule the religion (2nd beast/blasphamous head).
They will rule in tandem working together.

Some examples:
Eastern Roman Emperor (1st beast/ head) and Byzantine Pope (2nd beast/Blasphemous name) ruled over the people.

Holy Roman Emperor (1st beast/ head) and Roman Pope (2nd beast/Blasphemous name) ruled over the people.

King of England (1st beast/ head) and Archbishop of Canterbury (2nd beast/ blasphemous name) will rule over England.

Also
The 1st and 2nd beasts of Rev 13 also apply to Islam and how the
Caliph (2nd beast/ diadem) and Sultan (1st beast/ horn) worked in a similar way.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

I'm open to it, but the papacy came about before all that ..and they were monsters.

two kingdoms ..two horns

Remember in Daniel 8 the one horn of the goat was broken off and four horns relaced it.
The four horns here refer to a splitting of the empire into four.

In this way I think the two horns of the 2nd beast refer to a splitting in two of the 2nd beast.

One example is that Catholism underwent a East/West Schism. Roman vs. Greek Catholism. This is what the two horns refers to.

Second example is in Islam. Islam underwent a Sunni/Shia Split. You have a Babylonian vs. Persian Islam.

All the same regions displayed in Daniel 7 are on display again in Rev 13.

 

[tourist]

Who is this 'we' that you are referring to in the OP title?