Our responses to claims of Holy Spirit Bapitisms.

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Runningman

Banned
#21
Mar 4, 2020
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#21
ronair said:
Since modern day claims of Holy Spirit Baptisms are intangible and non-physical, how much validity should such claims be given?
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Sounds like the basis of your question is a faulty assumption that because anything is immaterial that it should be the object of skepticism.

You can read about how believers in Christ receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit here:

Romans 6
1 Corinthians 12
Ephesians 4

Many spiritual truths are non-physical and received through faith.

What other non-physical topics in the Bible are you skeptical about? Why or why not?
 
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ronair

Banned
#23
Jun 18, 2020
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#23
Runningman said:
Sounds like the basis of your question is a faulty assumption that because anything is immaterial that it should be the object of skepticism.

You can read about how believers in Christ receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit here:

Romans 6
1 Corinthians 12
Ephesians 4

Many spiritual truths are non-physical and received through faith.

What other non-physical topics in the Bible are you skeptical about? Why or why not?
Click to expand...
"Faulty assumption"? The post is about "claims" not the act itself. Did you not see this?

"Many spiritual truths are non-physical and recieved through faith."

Faith.....yes.
Blind faith.....no.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#24
Aug 4, 2020
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#24
Magenta said:
Do you deny that Jesus was speaking of the future?
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I think its ok to understand this for being aware of false prophets today also. We get plenty of warnings on this in most epistles.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#25
Jun 30, 2015
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#25
ronair said:
The "Our" is anyone who hears the claim.
The issue is not just that the claim is intangible and non-physical but the meaning behind "Holy Spirit Baptism". If "true" a Holy Spirit Baptized person has been "approved or validated" by God. Much like at Acts 2 and those at the house of Cornelius. But if the claim is false it would be blasphemy. Much stronger statements then "I love you."
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I agree that the Holy Spirit confirmed those in Acts 2 and 10. However, there were many others saved... were they "not" confirmed, given that Scripture doesn't record that they were?
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#26
Mar 4, 2020
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#26
ronair said:
"Faulty assumption"? The post is about "claims" not the act itself. Did you not see this?

"Many spiritual truths are non-physical and recieved through faith."

Faith.....yes.
Blind faith.....no.
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Maybe I misread you. I'll move on to the next point.

Claims of being baptized in the Holy Spirit aren't easily falsifiable. You would need to look for evidence of the Holy Spirit. Someone correctly pointed out that there will be fruits, or manifestations, of the Holy Spirit.

Because it's not easily falsifiable, there are concepts like wolves in sheep's clothing who outwardly appear to be good, bur inwardly, in their non-physical spirit, are not.

Long term exposure to those people will almost always reveal some true colors. Only God really knows the truth about everyone.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#27
Jul 3, 2015
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#27
ronair said:
Are you implying He was speaking of Holy Spirit Baptism?
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Jesus was speaking of people who are, and are not, saved.

Are saved people baptized by/into the Hoy Spirit, or not?

You can't have it both ways.

Simple yes or no.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#28
Jun 18, 2020
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#28
Dino246 said:
I agree that the Holy Spirit confirmed those in Acts 2 and 10. However, there were many others saved... were they "not" confirmed, given that Scripture doesn't record that they were?
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The post is about "modern day" claims not recorded biblical events.

How are we to respond to current claims of Holy Spirit Baptisms, regardless of who or where?
Do we err by accepting the claim as true or do we err by ignoring a possible movement of the Holy Spirit?
If the claim is false should it be exposed or if true, praised as a work of God?
 
R

ronair

Banned
#29
Jun 18, 2020
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#29
Magenta said:
Jesus was speaking of people who are, and are not, saved.

Are saved people baptized by/into the Hoy Spirit, or not?

You can't have it both ways.

Simple yes or no.
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Are saved people baptized by/into the Hoy Spirit, or not? Simple yes or no. YES!

Are you implying He was speaking of Holy Spirit Baptism?

Simple yes or no.
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#30
May 19, 2020
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#30
notuptome said:
Every believer is Holy Spirit baptized into Christ the moment they are saved. The multiple baptisms of the Pentecostal charismatic types are not valid because they are not scriptural.

For the cause of Chrisst
Roger
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I Agree, when your saved your sealed by the Holy Spirit, until the day of redemption (Eternal Security)

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#31
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#31
ronair said:
The post is about "modern day" claims not recorded biblical events.

How are we to respond to current claims of Holy Spirit Baptisms, regardless of who or where?
Do we err by accepting the claim as true or do we err by ignoring a possible movement of the Holy Spirit?
If the claim is false should it be exposed or if true, praised as a work of God?
Click to expand...
I testify to you, being a Spirit Filled believer, sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, whose name is written in the Lambs Book Of Life :)

I received the gift of tongues 43 years ago while praying in my room, asked and received, it's the same today as received then, and used in my prayer life.

1 Corinthians 14:30KJV
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#32
Jun 18, 2020
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#32
Runningman said:
Maybe I misread you. I'll move on to the next point.

Claims of being baptized in the Holy Spirit aren't easily falsifiable. You would need to look for evidence of the Holy Spirit. Someone correctly pointed out that there will be fruits, or manifestations, of the Holy Spirit.

Because it's not easily falsifiable, there are concepts like wolves in sheep's clothing who outwardly appear to be good, bur inwardly, in their non-physical spirit, are not.

Long term exposure to those people will almost always reveal some true colors. Only God really knows the truth about everyone.
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"Claims of being baptized in the Holy Spirit aren't easily falsifiable"
Claims of intangible and non-physical events are the most "easy" to "falsify"!!
 
R

ronair

Banned
#33
Jun 18, 2020
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#33
Truth7t7 said:
I testify to you, being a Spirit Filled believer, sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, whose name is written in the Lambs Book Of Life :)

I received the gift of tongues 43 years ago while praying in my room, asked and received, it's the same today as received then, and used in my prayer life.

1 Corinthians 14:30KJV
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
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And this claim proves what??
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#34
Mar 4, 2020
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#34
ronair said:
"Claims of being baptized in the Holy Spirit aren't easily falsifiable"
Claims of intangible and non-physical events are the most "easy" to "falsify"!!
Click to expand...
Really it's not easy to falsify if we're being honest. You have your word and experiences against someone else's words and experiences.

The only thing that would falsify a claim like this is your bias, which really wouldn't falsify anything to anyone but yourself.

The test of whether or not something is true is if the source of the information comes from an authority on the subject.

The Bible says we receive the Holy Spirit as a deposit (2 Corinthians 1:22) and the evidences for what someone should expect after being baptized in the Holy Spirit are in the Bible. This, among many other proofs, give the Bible credibility that stands the test of time.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#35
Jun 18, 2020
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#35
Truth7t7 said:
I Agree, when your saved your sealed by the Holy Spirit, until the day of redemption (Eternal Security)

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Click to expand...
I think he was speaking of the bogus nature of these groups when he wrote:

"The multiple baptisms of the Pentecostal charismatic types are not valid because they are not scriptural."
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#36
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#36
ronair said:
I think he was speaking of the bogus nature of these groups when he wrote:

"The multiple baptisms of the Pentecostal charismatic types are not valid because they are not scriptural."
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I dont know what your talking about, the gifts of the Spirit as seen in the bible are real and for today, if your not blinded by the Baptist, that teach the Sign gifts died with the Apostles

As previously stated I received the gift of speaking in tongues 43 years ago, same today as then a fact

Baptist believe and teach that I'm a liar regarding my claim, like telling the blind man Healed by Jesus that he really isnt seeing :giggle:

Yes the Pentecostals in the majority that I have personally witnessed, misuse the gift of speaking in tongues to mention only one, jumping and running around, rolling on the floor etc in complete chaos, the very reason why biblical instruction was written
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#37
May 24, 2014
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#37
ronair said:
Holy Spirit Baptisms are intangible and non-physical
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Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Magenta said:
Jesus said, "By their fruit you will recognize them."
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Fruits are the proof of Holy Spirit Baptism, which occurs when one is Born Again. These fruits are not tangible like apples and oranges either. If we turn a blind eye to everything spiritual, then we are in big trouble.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#38
Jul 3, 2015
60,141
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#38
oyster67 said:
Fruits are the proof of Holy Spirit Baptism, which occurs when one is Born Again. These fruits are not tangible like apples and oranges either. If we turn a blind eye to everything spiritual, then we are in big trouble.
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Others seem to be denying this...
 
R

ronair

Banned
#39
Jun 18, 2020
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#39
Runningman said:
Really it's not easy to falsify if we're being honest. You have your word and experiences against someone else's words and experiences.

The only thing that would falsify a claim like this is your bias, which really wouldn't falsify anything to anyone but yourself.

The test of whether or not something is true is if the source of the information comes from an authority on the subject.

The Bible says we receive the Holy Spirit as a deposit (2 Corinthians 1:22) and the evidences for what someone should expect after being baptized in the Holy Spirit are in the Bible. This, among many other proofs, give the Bible credibility that stands the test of time.
Click to expand...
"You have your word and experiences against someone else's words and experiences."
I have no word or experience, I am not making the claim. He who claims proves.

"The test of whether or not something is true is if the source of the information comes from an authority on the subject."
We are not debating if the scriptures are true but the claims of the claimant. Satan used scripture to tempt Jesus, were the scriptures true...yes. Does that make Satan's points correct? Of course not.

This is the verse in context:
18 But as surely as God is faithful, our message to you is not “Yes” and “No.” 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us—by me and Silas[c] and Timothy—was not “Yes” and “No,” but in him it has always been “Yes.” 20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are “Yes” in Christ. And so through him the “Amen” is spoken by us to the glory of God. 21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

23 I call God as my witness—and I stake my life on it—that it was in order to spare you that I did not return to Corinth. 24 Not that we lord it over your faith, but we work with you for your joy, because it is by faith you stand firm.

These verses do not validate a claim of personal Holy Spirit Baptism. You are reading yourself into the pronouns.
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#40
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#40
ronair said:
"You have your word and experiences against someone else's words and experiences."
I have no word or experience, I am not making the claim. He who claims proves.

"The test of whether or not something is true is if the source of the information comes from an authority on the subject."
We are not debating if the scriptures are true but the claims of the claimant. Satan used scripture to tempt Jesus, were the scriptures true...yes. Does that make Satan's points correct? Of course not.

This is the verse in context:
18 But as surely as God is faithful, our message to you is not “Yes” and “No.” 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us—by me and Silas[c] and Timothy—was not “Yes” and “No,” but in him it has always been “Yes.” 20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are “Yes” in Christ. And so through him the “Amen” is spoken by us to the glory of God. 21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

23 I call God as my witness—and I stake my life on it—that it was in order to spare you that I did not return to Corinth. 24 Not that we lord it over your faith, but we work with you for your joy, because it is by faith you stand firm.

These verses do not validate a claim of personal Holy Spirit Baptism. You are reading yourself into the pronouns.
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Can you prove that a person is actually saved, their name is written in the Lambs book of life?

You can observe fruit as the bible clearly teaches, other than that, only one will be able to see the book of life, and lose the seals therof
 
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