Holy Spirit baptism and eternal salvation
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Your missing the whole point of the transitions that are taking place . The samaratians were 'outside 'so to speak . Jesus had earlier told the diciples to not go to the Gentiles or the samaratians .
Mat 10
5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
So when Philip is doing so ,its a big deal . ( transition ) God is now transitioning to the Samaritans , after Israel finally rejects their messiah in Acts 7 with the stoning of Stephen.
The laying on of hands is about apostolic authority to confirm.
Mat 10
5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
So when Philip is doing so ,its a big deal . ( transition ) God is now transitioning to the Samaritans , after Israel finally rejects their messiah in Acts 7 with the stoning of Stephen.
The laying on of hands is about apostolic authority to confirm.
Yes, there is a christian baptism
there is also a spiritual baptism performed by God
i was immersed in Christ, I was not dipped into Christ, I was not sprinkled into Christ, I was immersed into Christ, which is why the word Baptizo was used, to make a point, that we are complete in christ, it is a done deal.we were not partially put into him, but completely, like the children of isreal were put into moses in the cloud and the sea.
the church has perverted the word baptize and made it something it is not
there is a baptism in water, I was baptized in water 2 years after I was born again. But if I was not baptized in the spirit, all I did was get wet. I am still lost.
you may know the churches defenition, but you do not know historical Greeks defenition
there is also a spiritual baptism performed by God
i was immersed in Christ, I was not dipped into Christ, I was not sprinkled into Christ, I was immersed into Christ, which is why the word Baptizo was used, to make a point, that we are complete in christ, it is a done deal.we were not partially put into him, but completely, like the children of isreal were put into moses in the cloud and the sea.
the church has perverted the word baptize and made it something it is not
there is a baptism in water, I was baptized in water 2 years after I was born again. But if I was not baptized in the spirit, all I did was get wet. I am still lost.
you may know the churches defenition, but you do not know historical Greeks defenition
E
This is really not true. Did you speak in tongues as they did in the book of Acts? Were hands laid on you and did someone pray for you to receive the Holy Spirit? If not, then you were were born again but did NOT receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. These are two definite acts of God for two different purposes: salvation is by the Holy Spirit, but Jesus does the baptizing in the Holy Spirit. Born again gets you a new spirit inside with God's DNA. Receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit gives you power in your walk with Christ.
none spoke in tongues because they were baptized by God
they spoke in tongues because they recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit who was poured out (anointed) on them
you need to rested the Greek word Baptizo. By the way did you know a baptizer in Greek culture was a person who dyed garments? Baptism was the act of taking a garment and changing its color by adding dye?
where those garments given power because they were changed from white to purple?
What you are doing is trying to change The meaning of baptism, and the meaning of anointing
the priest got his power when he was anointed with the oil, (he had the oil poured on his head). Not when he was washed (baptized) in the Jordan river.
if he was just washed (baptized) he was nothing yet, the ceremony of sacrifice had to occur then the anointing had to occure, the final act gave him power
baptizing in water is an act taking a stand and co fessing to the world what you have received from God, it is also a teaching tool, where you show those who may not know Gd what God is offering them if they arepent and come to faith, how God will baptize them into death and burial, that in the future they will be raised,
both of you keep totally ignoring the verses I give you, how do you expect to have a conversaion if all you do is give me your viewpoint and refuse to look at the word?
the priest got his power when he was anointed with the oil, (he had the oil poured on his head). Not when he was washed (baptized) in the Jordan river.
if he was just washed (baptized) he was nothing yet, the ceremony of sacrifice had to occur then the anointing had to occure, the final act gave him power
baptizing in water is an act taking a stand and co fessing to the world what you have received from God, it is also a teaching tool, where you show those who may not know Gd what God is offering them if they arepent and come to faith, how God will baptize them into death and burial, that in the future they will be raised,
both of you keep totally ignoring the verses I give you, how do you expect to have a conversaion if all you do is give me your viewpoint and refuse to look at the word?
Then in the New Testament. Jesus was anointed and went about doing good. He was God in human flesh, but did all His miracles through the anointing.
Have YOU received the Holy Spirit since you believed? It would seem not.
I was baptized in the spirit the moment I came to faith in Christ, and called out to be saved, once I was baptized, I was anointed by the spirit, where I recieved power and the gifts of the spirit as a child of God,
if you have not yet been baptized in the spirit, yu are still lost. Because you are not yet in Christ, only God can spiritually circumcise your flesh making you white as snow through the baptism of the spirit,
if you have not yet been baptized in the spirit, yu are still lost. Because you are not yet in Christ, only God can spiritually circumcise your flesh making you white as snow through the baptism of the spirit,
E
What you are doing is trying to change The meaning of baptism, and the meaning of anointing No, you have not understood what these were, so the truth seems strange. If I were in your place, I would look up every verse in the Old Testament about the Holy Spirit coming UPON people as the anointing.
Then in the New Testament. Jesus was anointed and went about doing good. He was God in human flesh, but did all His miracles through the anointing.
Have YOU received the Holy Spirit since you believed? It would seem not.
Then in the New Testament. Jesus was anointed and went about doing good. He was God in human flesh, but did all His miracles through the anointing.
Have YOU received the Holy Spirit since you believed? It would seem not.
2. what you are not understanding is that to be anointed with the spirit is not the same as being baptized by the spirit they are 2 different events, I showed you the difference by taking you to the law and the Arron if priesthood and Christ.
3. have I recieved the spirit? If not I am lost. I recieved him the moment I trusted Christ,
but before I recieved him, I was baptized by him
2 different events
E
This is just ignorance of the word of God. You are confusing salvation or the born again experience with the anointing: these are two different experiences performed by two different members of the Godhead and for two different purposes. You really should do more studying on these things.
and while your at it, prove you can listen to people
i have stated all along they are two different events, and now your mocking me by telling me what I have been telling you all along
it makes you look bad..
All this makes no difference: God was working with Philip: and God helped Philip preach the word through the anointing, then God helped Philip perform miracles to draw the crowds through the anointing. Then God was behind them being baptized in water as Peter had preached on the day of Pentecost. Then Peter and John came and laid hands on them and they received the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Do you imagine Acts 1 was only to the Jews? Peter quoted Joel where God said He would pour out His spirit on ALL flesh. So God was just fulfilling His promise. "Transition" had nothing to do with it. Perhaps you are using that as an excuse not to believe and follow Acts 1.
All this makes no difference: God was working with Philip: and God helped Philip preach the word through the anointing, then God helped Philip perform miracles to draw the crowds through the anointing. Then God was behind them being baptized in water as Peter had preached on the day of Pentecost. Then Peter and John came and laid hands on them and they received the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Do you imagine Acts 1 was only to the Jews? Peter quoted Joel where God said He would pour out His spirit on ALL flesh. So God was just fulfilling His promise. "Transition" had nothing to do with it. Perhaps you are using that as an excuse not to believe and follow Acts 1.
That is not biblical order and as such is a false teaching.
You make assumptions that are wholly without foundation. You have no idea of how I am or have been used of God in witnessing the glory of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You make assumptions that are wholly without foundation. You have no idea of how I am or have been used of God in witnessing the glory of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
John 20:
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
This is when the disciples were born again, having received the Holy Spirit into their reborn human spirit as a seal.
Next, Jesus told them this:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Take note: they are already born again. WHO performs this baptism?
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
"Not many days hense..." So WHEN did this happen? On the day of Pentecost:
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
From this we learn that "being filled" with the Holy Spirit is juts another way of receiving the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Notice the progression: they were born again days before, then after being born again (Receiving the Holy Spirit inside as the inner witness) they received the baptism: the Holy Spirit UPON.
5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
8 And there was great joy in that city. [why great joy? Because they were new believers just born again.]
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. [Here they are water baptized proving they are born again. Note, as born again believers they are the Holy Spirit INSIDE [their spirit man] as the inner witness and as the seal.]
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: [This gives us a glimpse of the thinking of the leadership: Philip is good at getting people born again, but Peter and John are good at getting them baptized or filled with the Holy Spirit - with the evidence of speaking in tongues. ]
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: [They were born again but not filled.]
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) [Born again but not filled.]
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. [Now they are both born again AND filled: note that this is the Holy Spirit UPON, not within.] [Notice it is UPON not in.]
A note from Paul: "Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. "
Let's understand this as mature believers in Christ. Notice the progression: they hear the word. They believe the word and are born again. Then, when hands are laid on them, they are filled with the Holy Spirit. It is the same experience as we saw in Acts 2. Note: there is not one verse anywhere in scripture that hands are laid on for someone to receive salvation: Salvation is instantaneous as soon as someone believes and confesses.
Note: there is a strong hint that these people also spoke in tongues when they received. Simon saw and heard something that let him know that something supernatural happened when hand were laid on. The KJV put it: "Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: " The Greek word translated "matter" is "logos," which is a word uttered, a saying or a speech."
Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. [Notice it is ON not in.]
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
How did they KNOW these Gentiles had received the Holy Spirit? Simple: they heard them speak in tongues and magnify God.
Note: here the Holy Spirit chose not to wait for them to be water baptized so He just saved them and then filled them with the Holy Spirit in an instant of time. This time no laying of of hands required.
Note: This is now the second repeat of what happened in Acts 2.
Acts 11:
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. [Notice again it is ON not in.]
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
This is Peter rehearsing what just happened at Cornelius' house, showing us that he, Peter, believed it was the same experience they had at Pentecost.
Acts 19:
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. [Paul preaches Jesus Christ to them.]
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. [They heard, believed, were born again, and were then water baptized.]
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. [Notice that they received only after hands were laid on them. And notice that they spoke in tongues and prophesied: these are the signs when someone is filled: they speak in tongues, and/or they prophesy and magnify God.
Note that in every case all in the room received, showing us this is for every believer.
Note the question Paul asked: "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? "
Many good church people today could not ask this of a fellow believer because their doctrines or beliefs are not in agreement with Paul's.
Note that in every case (though not mentioned in Acts 10) people were saved or born again first, receiving the Holy Spirit as the inward witness, then after hands were laid on them, they received the baptism with the Holy Spirit (or were filled with the Spirit) and had supernatural speech as proof the Holy Spirit filled them.
This, my friend, is indeed the biblical order.
If we studied the Old Testament we would find that God used this “Holy Spirit upon” to anoint the prophet, the priest and the king. In case after case it is written that “the Holy Ghost came upon…” and they did something supernatural.
Can you show one gentile in Acts 1 ,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, ?
What difference does that make? Joel said this experience would be for all flesh. God started with the Jew, which agrees with Paul who wrote, "to the Jew first..." Thank GOD it is available to the Gentiles! Thank GOD Paul was sent to the Gentiles!
It was temporary. The Holy Spirit would depart from a person. Only after Jesus Glorification is the Holy Spirit sent in a new way not given before. .
John 7 is key
37¶In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Notice when and only when the Holy Spirit is given as the permanent indwelling, in verse 39 . Only after Jesus is glorified.
What difference does that make? Joel said this experience would be for all flesh. God started with the Jew, which agrees with Paul who wrote, "to the Jew first..." Thank GOD it is available to the Gentiles! Thank GOD Paul was sent to the Gentiles!
The Spirit was not poured out on “all FLESH” anywhere in the New Testament before, or after, Pentecost. The born-again child of God is born of the Spirit and is “not in the flesh”
What difference does that make? Joel said this experience would be for all flesh. God started with the Jew, which agrees with Paul who wrote, "to the Jew first..." Thank GOD it is available to the Gentiles! Thank GOD Paul was sent to the Gentiles!
What difference does that make? Joel said this experience would be for all flesh. God started with the Jew, which agrees with Paul who wrote, "to the Jew first..." Thank GOD it is available to the Gentiles! Thank GOD Paul was sent to the Gentiles!
What difference does that make? Joel said this experience would be for all flesh. God started with the Jew, which agrees with Paul who wrote, "to the Jew first..." Thank GOD it is available to the Gentiles! Thank GOD Paul was sent to the Gentiles!
In John 20 they were not born again. They received the Holy Spirit in the same capacity as the likes of Samson, Saul , David , ect for a task ,purpose ,fulfilling Gods purposes ect
It was temporary. The Holy Spirit would depart from a person. Only after Jesus Glorification is the Holy Spirit sent in a new way not given before. .
John 7 is key
37¶In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Notice when and only when the Holy Spirit is given as the permanent indwelling, in verse 39 . Only after Jesus is glorified.
It was temporary. The Holy Spirit would depart from a person. Only after Jesus Glorification is the Holy Spirit sent in a new way not given before. .
John 7 is key
37¶In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Notice when and only when the Holy Spirit is given as the permanent indwelling, in verse 39 . Only after Jesus is glorified.
1. We must believe Jesus rose from the dead.
2. We must confess Him as Lord.
John 20:
9 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
They were SEEING Him alive after His death and burial. There is no question they believe in their heart. They had time and again called Him "Lord." Do you imagine that after Jesus commanded them to receive, they did not? If Jesus said it, we can believe they received.
Question: Jesus knew that in a few days they would receive the Holy Spirit UPON as the anointing. It would therefore make no sense that this scenario was anything but the Holy Spirit within for salvation. Why would Jesus wait even a minute to get the first people born again: it was why He died and rose again! Therefore I disagree with you.
It was temporary. There is not a word to hint it was temporary. And in the New Covenant, once the Holy Spirit came, He would STAY forever! Hallelujah!
Only after Jesus Glorification This WAS after His glorification. He had a new, resurrection body.
out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Many people believe this is speaking of the heavenly language (tongues) given when one receives the infilling of the Holy Spirit - being baptized with the Holy Spirit. This makes sense: no one spoke in tongues before Pentecost.
No Joel's prophecy was not fulfilled in Acts 2 .
The Spirit was not poured out on “all FLESH” anywhere in the New Testament before, or after, Pentecost. The born-again child of God is born of the Spirit and is “not in the flesh”
The Spirit was not poured out on “all FLESH” anywhere in the New Testament before, or after, Pentecost. The born-again child of God is born of the Spirit and is “not in the flesh”
16... "this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young
In a way you are right: That day of Pentecost only saw the beginning of what Joel said. It has continued to this day but coming soon will be a wave of the Holy Spirit that will amaze the world.