Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[Aidan1]

I understand your position, and I disagree with it, because there is no reason why the prior creation of Adam should confer authority of every man over every woman. Most people, yourself included, engage in circular reasoning, using this verse to explain itself. There are very limited cases where circular reasoning is legitimate, and this is definitely not one of them.

Adam was judged for sin; if you want to be consistent, you need to exclude all men from leadership because Adam sinned.

I see no reason to read any post from Major, because he refuses to read mine.

Well Dino, I wrote my part. And I have a good consience. I take the word, as it is written.
The arguments which you and others use to convince that Woman Pastors are biblical have their Fundament on time spirit, human wisedom and ignoring what is written.
No good Fundament for teach Gods word anyway.

 

[Major]

You've hit the nail on the head. Who would have imagined that Christian men would be gutless? But there it is. And that is exactly why women have been ordained CONTRARY TO THE WORD OF GOD. It is rebellion, pure and simple, and that is what it should be called.

It is interesting to note that when Miriam and Aaron tried to question and oppose the authority of Moses, it was Miriam who was punished with leprosy (Num 12:10). God had some very severe words for Miriam.

AMEN brother!

 

[CS1]

AMEN brother!

are saying only in the context of Pastor? Because those who are in the office of an evangelist who is women can be ordained Minister which means they are a servant of the Lord? it is only in the context of the office Pastor? Or Bishop which I am still waiting for someone to show me where it says "women can't be a pastor? Or women can be a Bishop when asking this some get upset because I asked yet they say that is what this ver means yet I do not see that contextually.

 

[Dino246]

Well Dino, I wrote my part. And I have a good consience. I take the word, as it is written.
The arguments which you and others use to convince that Woman Pastors are biblical have their Fundament on time spirit, human wisedom and ignoring what is written.
No good Fundament for teach Gods word anyway.

I take the word as it is written, as well, and I have a clear conscience too.

The arguments that I use have their foundation in the text of Scripture, sound hermeneutical principles, and sound reasoning. I can't speak for others, but I can say this: I see far more bad arguments and unChristian behaviour from those who hold that women cannot be pastors than from those who hold that they can.

 

[101G]

The Bible is abundantly clear that Pastoring a New Test. church is a responsibility reserved for men.

ERROR, so we can take this as you really have no rebuttal, thought so.

PICJAG,
101G.

 

[cv5]

I do not want to debate, as I told you previously. Thousands of passages in the bible are debated constantly because people have their own method of interpretation.
I will only just address what you said in your last post to me then I will decline to debate any further.

I am not rewriting the bible.
For example I am sure you would not want to go into the field to catch an unblemished lamb so that you can make a sacrifice for your sins. Yes this is in the bible. But I am sure that you would not want to do that based on the context that those actions were performed.

Killing babies are not performed by the Christian world but by the world which God has told us to come out of.
In the days of the Old testament heathen nations sacrificed people but that was not under the jurisdiction of God's people.
There was a specific law in the O.T. by God that prohibited His people Israel from sacrificing their children similar to what the heathen nations were doing.
But their is no O.T. passages where God punished the heathen nations for killing their children offered to their idol Gods. So we have to put things in proper context here.

Sodom and Gomorrah was a city of homosexuals. There was only one righteous man, Lot who did not take part in their practices. You have to understand the wicked will be wicked and the righteous will be righteous. This the entire theme of the entire bible. Even revelations 22, the last book of the bible sums it up like this -
Revelation 22 vs 11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still:
and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still:
and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still:
and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
To be honest, I think you are still in the world, when God has already told you to come out of it.
The bible states that even though we are in the world we are not of the world.
Let the world be the world and God's people be God's people.

One of the problems that I noticed with Seventh day Adventists was that they were concerned about social conditions in the world. The is not the business of Christians. God did not put us here to make the world a better place. No.

That is why we are going to be taken out of here for a much better place. That is why the bible tells us we are only sojourners here waiting to go home.

Jesus's last message in Revelation was to watch for his coming and be prepared for him. He did not tell us to fix this place that is ruled by the Devil.

Spot on and absolutely correct. The Bible is clear that the world is going to get worse and worse. And then finally be cast into judgment. That has been the pattern and is inevitable. The Holy Spirit and Christians are the things only restraining the fallen race from their fullest expression of sin. This social gospel business is way out of line.......in fact it may be hurting the Church more than it is helping. The Church is never to engage with the unsaved world in any spiritual endeavor.

 

[Aidan1]

these scriptures have been revealed in their true meaning. and all these false notions that woman cannot pastor have been reproved by the Word of God itself, the bible.

#1. 1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law."

A. this is not speaking about all women, only to "WIVES", and

B. the apostle was not even speaking to any Women/wife at all, but to the husbands of "WIVES".

just as in 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
this was a home setting, because of what he, the apostle was saying to the husbands in 1 Corinthians 14:34. should have been done at "HOME", husband TEACH YOUR WIVES FIRST... AT HOME, BEFORE YOU BOTH COME TO CHURCH.
again "Women" here is a wife, for 1 Timothy 2:15 clearly states this.

and one can see that it is a home setting between HUSBAND and WIFE, 1 Timothy 2:13 "For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
1 Timothy 2:14 "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
now the term "woman" here in verse 14 .... is it a WIFE? yes, for Eve was Adam "WIFE", just as in 1 Corinthians 14:34, it is "WIVES" there also.

there is no scriptual foundation to support any lie that Women cannot preach, teach, and PASTOR.

for if these scriptures would have used the term, G2338, thelus, which is a FEMALE, that would have included all and every woman, married or not. but since that word was not used, the bible Interpret itself. so where one see the term "Woman" in 1 Corinthians 14:34, and 1 Timothy 2:12, it is "Wife". so any argument aganist "WOMEN" preaching, teaching, and Pastoring, in whole, is anti BIBLE. just let the bible interpret itself. look up word definition and see is this is what is actually said.

PICJAG,
101G.

So, according your statement, you ignore 1 Tim. 3 and Titus 1 compleate. There Man should be married for to become eldest/ pastor. But in your view woman should be unmarried to become eldest/ pastor?
Where are the bible verses for this statement?

 

[Truth7t7]

You've hit the nail on the head. Who would have imagined that Christian men would be gutless? But there it is. And that is exactly why women have been ordained CONTRARY TO THE WORD OF GOD. It is rebellion, pure and simple, and that is what it should be called.

It is interesting to note that when Miriam and Aaron tried to question and oppose the authority of Moses, it was Miriam who was punished with leprosy (Num 12:10). God had some very severe words for Miriam.

I agree 100%, rebellion to Gods simple words of truth

 

[mustaphadrink]

There is no injunction in scripture that women may not be pastors. What does it matters what they are called, so long as they are doing the work God called them to.

You have to balance scripture, we see that Paul greeted women who were leaders in houses [which were the churches] he called them co-workers with him in the gospel commanding the men to give them all assistance.

Paul teaches that in the Body, the church there is neither male or female.

You have not grasped yet obviously that there are many things not spoken in scripture because they do not need to be because the subject matter was already settled and the church knew what was accpeted and what was not.

Suffice to say every reference to leadership in scripture speaks of Apostles, Prophets and Elders and every reference to Elders is always male as in the Husband of one wife. A female cannot be the husband of one wife.

As I didn't come down in the last shower, I always balance scripture as I constantly say that you do not form a doctrine based on one verse of scripture which is done quite often here. The bible is its best commentary and when I am studying a subject, I always look at every verse that relates to the topic. Then I look at commentators to see what they say about those verses. Which means I get a comprehensive picture of what is being taught.

And the verse about being neither male or female is related to salvation, not leadership in the church which you will realise if you care to consider the context.

 

[mustaphadrink]

The above post is totally fictitious!!! The phenomenon, which is historically scarce throughout the entirety of Church history, is gaining a lot of traction. I’m going to argue that the primary reason that women are drawn to preaching is not actually a love for God’s word, but a hatred of it.

The Bible is abundantly clear that Pastoring a New Test. church is a responsibility reserved for men. As seen here on this site, the problem is that some PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE NOR ACCEPT WHAT GOD ACTUALLY SAID!!!

I must tell you that I did not start this thread as a whim or after thought. I have put a lot of time, observation and study into this happening.

As such I can tell all of you who do not like what I have said woman not being Biblically approved to be Pastors, Unsurprisingly, women who usurp the authority of male leadership — by preaching or teaching in the Church — are false teachers. Aside from the fact that they teach falsely on women preachers, many are wrapped up in prosperity theology, like Joyce Meyer and Christine Caine, claim extra-biblical revelations, like Beth Moore who said God gave her a vision of Him uniting Catholics and Protestants, romanticize their relationship with God, like Ann Voskamp who says she flew to Paris to “make love to God,” or promote various other heresies such as LGBT inclusiveness, like Jen Hatmaker.

DO NOT take my word on these things. It is easy to prove me wrong....do the work and see for yourself!

So then the question must then be.......why do women do this?

I think that the growing number of male leaders in the Church, and at home have become too afraid of women to speak up.

I also think that it is NOW instead of 50 years because these women hate their God-given role as submissive servants in the Church.
They have bought into the Gloria Steinman philosophy of "Being in Charge". The new feminist movement has mainstreamed this notion of being in charge and Pastoring the church NO MATTER WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS!!

May I add a thought to your excellent post. It is known as the slippery slope and it works like this. The church ignores scripture on one point which makes it easier to ignore scripture on another point. Then it starts to reject accepted doctrine and make the sciprture say what they want it to say. Then it justfies doing what is contrary to scripture and then the scripture goes out the window and denominational doctrine takes president over what the word of God says.

What happened about women in leadership in my country was as plain as day. When the feminists took over government policy and started pushing their barrow, women in the Anglican church started pushing their barrow for female vicars. It took them about 10 years to get the constitution of the Anglican church changed.

Following that the AOG got sucked in and on web sites the pastor was now Joe Blow and his wife and you had the very insulting situation where 30 y.o. women were telling 80 year old men what to do or not do as the case might be.

I feel very blessed to be brought up in churches where men were men and women were women and both knew their roles and ministry in the church. I do not feel I have been deprived at all because the church was governed by men not men and women.

 

[Aidan1]

are saying only in the context of Pastor? Because those who are in the office of an evangelist who is women can be ordained Minister which means they are a servant of the Lord? it is only in the context of the office Pastor? Or Bishop which I am still waiting for someone to show me where it says "women can't be a pastor? Or women can be a Bishop when asking this some get upset because I asked yet they say tmhat is what this ver means yet I do not see that contextually.

Maby you read with a certain glass?
If you ignore the scripure, like 1.Tim 3 ore Titus 1, ore 1.Tim 2, ore Genesis 2+ 3, then I could understand your view.
But you neclecting clear scripture and prefer speculation and manwisedom. How then is to help you?
F.e. when Genesis 3 and 1.Tim 2 is speaking from married woman. Then only unmarried woman can be Pastors, right? Because married woman are under their husband, right?
If this so, then you must throw 1. Tim 3 and Titus 1 out the word of God, because eldest should be married man. Eldest is what you today call Pastor.
So, if you searching verses which says that woman cant be Pastor. You must simply read what is standing in the vers instead reading into the vers the view you have.

 

[Evmur]

You have not grasped yet obviously that there are many things not spoken in scripture because they do not need to be because the subject matter was already settled and the church knew what was accpeted and what was not.

Suffice to say every reference to leadership in scripture speaks of Apostles, Prophets and Elders and every reference to Elders is always male as in the Husband of one wife. A female cannot be the husband of one wife.

As I didn't come down in the last shower, I always balance scripture as I constantly say that you do not form a doctrine based on one verse of scripture which is done quite often here. The bible is its best commentary and when I am studying a subject, I always look at every verse that relates to the topic. Then I look at commentators to see what they say about those verses. Which means I get a comprehensive picture of what is being taught.

And the verse about being neither male or female is related to salvation, not leadership in the church which you will realise if you care to consider the context.

Being neither male or female does not relate to salvation but to the body of Christ and it's structure which makes it the the most important scripture to be taken into account when dealing with ministry.

Paul in his letters greets women whom he calls fellow workers in the gospel some who were leaders of houses where the church met.

All the gifts of the Holy Spirit are ministerial gifts, word of wisdom/word of knowledge, prophecy, healing and miracles. There is no reason whatsoever to suppose that women did not receive these gifts. Paul's desire is that every single member of the assembly, the body of Christ should participate in the meetings.

I don't like to say this too often because it upsets some people's faith in scripture but I do not believe the Pastoral epistles are written by Paul they show an unPauline attitude toward women. The whole Episcopal style of church governance [from which Catholicism] is built upon the Pastorals. I am not saying the Pastorals are not scripture, but scripture varies in weight and authority.

When Jesus was raised the FIRST person to whom He showed Himself was Mary Magdalene ... do you think this was just an accident of fate? does anything God does happen by chance? no. She was the FIRST to carry the message of the resurrection and with it a prophetic instruction to the disciples to go to Galilee.

Women are ALWAYS in submission to a man, if not their husbands then to Christ.

 

[cv5]

Being neither male or female does not relate to salvation but to the body of Christ and it's structure which makes it the the most important scripture to be taken into account when dealing with ministry.

Paul in his letters greets women whom he calls fellow workers in the gospel some who were leaders of houses where the church met.

All the gifts of the Holy Spirit are ministerial gifts, word of wisdom/word of knowledge, prophecy, healing and miracles. There is no reason whatsoever to suppose that women did not receive these gifts. Paul's desire is that every single member of the assembly, the body of Christ should participate in the meetings.

I don't like to say this too often because it upsets some people's faith in scripture but I do not believe the Pastoral epistles are written by Paul they show an unPauline attitude toward women. The whole Episcopal style of church governance [from which Catholicism] is built upon the Pastorals. I am not saying the Pastorals are not scripture, but scripture varies in weight and authority.

When Jesus was raised the FIRST person to whom He showed Himself was Mary Magdalene ... do you think this was just an accident of fate? does anything God does happen by chance? no. She was the FIRST to carry the message of the resurrection and with it a prophetic instruction to the disciples to go to Galilee.

Women are ALWAYS in submission to a man, if not their husbands then to Christ.

Pastoral epistles are not written by Paul you say? Well that's your problem right there. And that's why you are consistently striking out on every doctrinal in exegetical treatment you proffer. Watching and reading your post as of now you are 100% wrong 100% of the time. Which given your predicament is very predictable.

 

[Evmur]

Well, for me it seems you puzzle your own theologie. Do so, but it is not what God teaches in his word. But be sure, you are not alone with that. The mayority would agree with you.

what if men cannot be found who are worthy to lead ? The American church would collapse without the women.

 

[cv5]

what if men cannot be found who are worthy to lead ? The American church would collapse without the women.

The fact is that the American Church would collapse if ONLY women were to lead.

 

[Aidan1]

what if men cannot be found who are worthy to lead ? The American church would collapse without the women.

This is then a reason to ignore the Word of God?

 

[Major]

May I add a thought to your excellent post. It is known as the slippery slope and it works like this. The church ignores scripture on one point which makes it easier to ignore scripture on another point. Then it starts to reject accepted doctrine and make the sciprture say what they want it to say. Then it justfies doing what is contrary to scripture and then the scripture goes out the window and denominational doctrine takes president over what the word of God says.

What happened about women in leadership in my country was as plain as day. When the feminists took over government policy and started pushing their barrow, women in the Anglican church started pushing their barrow for female vicars. It took them about 10 years to get the constitution of the Anglican church changed.

Following that the AOG got sucked in and on web sites the pastor was now Joe Blow and his wife and you had the very insulting situation where 30 y.o. women were telling 80 year old men what to do or not do as the case might be.

I feel very blessed to be brought up in churches where men were men and women were women and both knew their roles and ministry in the church. I do not feel I have been deprived at all because the church was governed by men not men and women.

I agree 100%!

Once we begin down the slope of sin and rebellion.......it is a fast roll!!!!!

 

[Major]

what if men cannot be found who are worthy to lead ? The American church would collapse without the women.

Only a man committed to the false reteroric of the AOG would make such a statement!

My friend.......what has the church been from Paul to 1853. That is the year that Antoinette Brown Blackwell was the first woman ordained as a minister in the United States. She was ordained by a church belonging to the Congregationalist Church. However, her ordination was not recognized by the denomination. She later quit the church and became a Unitarian which is not a Christian church at all.

 

[Major]

what if men cannot be found who are worthy to lead ? The American church would collapse without the women.

The fact that the American church has been on the decline is the result of women being ordained!

 

[Major]

ERROR, so we can take this as you really have no rebuttal, thought so.

PICJAG,
101G.

Only one who does not read the Scripture would need a rebuttal as God said in
1 Timothy 3:1-2.............
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

I guess that is too difficult for some.