Revisiting Genesis

[Hungry]

I want to ask for something that CCers love to give....their opinion. Sometimes when we read something our preconceptions cause us to skim over details that cause friction with conflicting information. Please read this with new eyes. Starting with Adam in Genesis we notice by the genealogy account that their lifespans were eight to ten times longer before the flood. We also notice that their first born children were produced in their seventies. In Genesis 6 it states that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were attractive and procreated with them. Then it states, this was at the time of the giants.

Here’s my question based on this information. Since men lived longer, and children were born in their seventies, is this because they didn’t hit puberty until their sixties? Is it plausible to conclude that because they lived ten times longer, they grew ten times larger? Were the immediate descendants of Adam the giants that were referenced in chapter 6? Post flood is when Noah was instructed to kill and eat animals. I was curious if this might have shortened our lifespans genetically? I understand this isn’t what we were taught. I’m not adding information, merely connecting the dots.

 

[Gideon300]

I want to ask for something that CCers love to give....their opinion. Sometimes when we read something our preconceptions cause us to skim over details that cause friction with conflicting information. Please read this with new eyes. Starting with Adam in Genesis we notice by the genealogy account that their lifespans were eight to ten times longer before the flood. We also notice that their first born children were produced in their seventies. In Genesis 6 it states that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were attractive and procreated with them. Then it states, this was at the time of the giants.

Here’s my question based on this information. Since men lived longer, and children were born in their seventies, is this because they didn’t hit puberty until their sixties? Is it plausible to conclude that because they lived ten times longer, they grew ten times larger? Were the immediate descendants of Adam the giants that were referenced in chapter 6? Post flood is when Noah was instructed to kill and eat animals. I was curious if this might have shortened our lifespans genetically? I understand this isn’t what we were taught. I’m not adding information, merely connecting the dots.

An interesting topic, but one that tends to produce more heat than light. I think that the climate was entirely different prior to the flood, likewise plant and animal life. It may be that plants were far more capable of supplying nutritional needs than at present. A vegan or vegetarian diet now requires artificial vitamin supplements, especially B12. Maybe this was not the case prior to the flood.

There is some evidence that cosmic radiation limits the present maximum lifespan of the human race. Again, there may have been much less radiation prior to the flood. I doubt that people grew 10 times larger. The body size limit is fixed genetically, not so much environmentally. While better diet is producing people with larger frames, in reality very tall people suffer serious health problems and often die prematurely.

 

[Hungry]

An interesting topic, but one that tends to produce more heat than light. I think that the climate was entirely different prior to the flood, likewise plant and animal life. It may be that plants were far more capable of supplying nutritional needs than at present. A vegan or vegetarian diet now requires artificial vitamin supplements, especially B12. Maybe this was not the case prior to the flood.

There is some evidence that cosmic radiation limits the present maximum lifespan of the human race. Again, there may have been much less radiation prior to the flood. I doubt that people grew 10 times larger. The body size limit is fixed genetically, not so much environmentally. While better diet is producing people with larger frames, in reality very tall people suffer serious health problems and often die prematurely.

I understand your logic but environment strongly influences genetics. An alcoholic grandmother causes vit D(?) deficiency in her grandkids. When people grow abnormally tall today it is because of pituitary issues. If original genetics were programmed to have us grow for a hundred years, and live into our 900s, than that wouldn’t be unhealthy. However if lizards grew to 50 feet tall, why not humans? It obviously isn’t what is commonly taught. Maybe the giants within Jericho were vegetarians? I just think it’s a possibility.

 

[S3RV4NT]

There is definitely something to your line of thinking, but I haven't been able to completely suss it out. I've noticed for years that there are many solid facts of evidence in favor of giants in the Bible from the measurements of the first temple and the basins around it to the verses that describe king David as being capable of wearing a 75 lb crown taken from one of the giant kings that were killed in battle and even a verse that strongly implies that Jeremiah was a huge man, taking a crazy number of men to raise him back up from a well that he was commanded to be put into as punishment for his phophesying. I will give chapters and verse for each of these below.

I cannot decide if all of these giants were products of the Genesis 6:4 coupling of angels with human women, and thus that seed/gene being passed down for centuries...

OR - if the references to 'going-a-whoring' was actually the act of women intentionally going and having relations with demon gods (demi-gods) of the surrounding nations and mixing their progeny with that of Israel which obviously infuriated the Lord for its muddying/defiling the pure race...

OR - if it was simply, as you say, a natural outcome of the young earth environment which God refers to in comparing the children born during the time of a man's youth and strength and men born upon the earth during the time of the earth's youth and strength. (currently searching for these particular verses; one might be corroborated in the Apocrypha - will update)

The fact is there are many passages in scripture that describe the concept of giants and your hypotheses are well within reason.

Giant Facts from Scripture

All the lands God commanded to be destroyed were full of giants. ((Num. 13:31-33)(Josh. 13:1-7)
Because the people continued to disobey all the judges God sent (Josh. 23:16), when Joshua died, God chose not to destroy the remaining nations of heathen giants as a continual testing and discipline to the people (Judg. 2:20-23; 3:1-5)(Josh.13:1-7).

King David defeated the Philistine and Moab giants, commanding the Moabites to lie down flat on the ground and measuring them with a line of cord. Those who exceeded the length of cord in height were killed, those who survived became his servants. (2 Sam. 8:1-2)(2 Chron. 8:8)

Then, when king Solomon reigned, his kingdom was surrounded on all sides by nations of these servile giants (Judg. 3:5). He decided to employ these giants to build the original House of God (Temple) and to guard the Temple and be his personal security guards (1 Ki. 5:6, 8-9; 7:15). It is evident that giants were present and involved in the building of the Temple due to the height of the Temple entry way. (the royal cubit used at this time measured 21") That put the door of the Temple between 30 ft. (1 Ki. 7:15) and 60 ft. high (2 Chron. 3:15)(Ezek. Chs. 40-43).

When Jeremiah was sentenced to be imprisoned in a deep well, it took THIRTY men to raise him back up and out. (Jer. 38:10)

When the blind man was healed of his sight by Jesus (Mark 8:24), he first was capable of seeing into the spirit world and Jesus had to do an additional adjustment to calibrate his vision to this world only. When Jesus asked him what he saw initially, his response was that he saw men 'as' trees. It is believed that he was seeing the spirits of the pre-flood giants. Cross reference the wording in Numbers 13:33 when the men sent ahead to spy out the land of Canaan said that they were 'AS GRASSHOPPERS' in the sight of the giants.

 

[S3RV4NT]

The EDIT time limit needs to be adjusted to AT LEAST 10 minutes.

Additional info on the Temple basins, sea and hand washing lavers, etc. being 7-9 ft. tall. (1 Ki. 7:23)

 

[Hungry]

There is definitely something to your line of thinking, but I haven't been able to completely suss it out. I've noticed for years that there are many solid facts of evidence in favor of giants in the Bible from the measurements of the first temple and the basins around it to the verses that describe king David as being capable of wearing a 75 lb crown taken from one of the giant kings that were killed in battle and even a verse that strongly implies that Jeremiah was a huge man, taking a crazy number of men to raise him back up from a well that he was commanded to be put into as punishment for his phophesying. I will give chapters and verse for each of these below.

I cannot decide if all of these giants were products of the Genesis 6:4 coupling of angels with human women, and thus that seed/gene being passed down for centuries...

OR - if the references to 'going-a-whoring' was actually the act of women intentionally going and having relations with demon gods (demi-gods) of the surrounding nations and mixing their progeny with that of Israel which obviously infuriated the Lord for its muddying/defiling the pure race...

OR - if it was simply, as you say, a natural outcome of the young earth environment which God refers to in comparing the children born during the time of a man's youth and strength and men born upon the earth during the time of the earth's youth and strength. (currently searching for these particular verses; one might be corroborated in the Apocrypha - will update)

The fact is there are many passages in scripture that describe the concept of giants and your hypotheses are well within reason.

Giant Facts from Scripture

All the lands God commanded to be destroyed were full of giants. ((Num. 13:31-33)(Josh. 13:1-7)
Because the people continued to disobey all the judges God sent (Josh. 23:16), when Joshua died, God chose not to destroy the remaining nations of heathen giants as a continual testing and discipline to the people (Judg. 2:20-23; 3:1-5)(Josh.13:1-7).

King David defeated the Philistine and Moab giants, commanding the Moabites to lie down flat on the ground and measuring them with a line of cord. Those who exceeded the length of cord in height were killed, those who survived became his servants. (2 Sam. 8:1-2)(2 Chron. 8:8)

Then, when king Solomon reigned, his kingdom was surrounded on all sides by nations of these servile giants (Judg. 3:5). He decided to employ these giants to build the original House of God (Temple) and to guard the Temple and be his personal security guards (1 Ki. 5:6, 8-9; 7:15). It is evident that giants were present and involved in the building of the Temple due to the height of the Temple entry way. (the royal cubit used at this time measured 21") That put the door of the Temple between 30 ft. (1 Ki. 7:15) and 60 ft. high (2 Chron. 3:15)(Ezek. Chs. 40-43).

When Jeremiah was sentenced to be imprisoned in a deep well, it took THIRTY men to raise him back up and out. (Jer. 38:10)

When the blind man was healed of his sight by Jesus (Mark 8:24), he first was capable of seeing into the spirit world and Jesus had to do an additional adjustment to calibrate his vision to this world only. When Jesus asked him what he saw initially, his response was that he saw men 'as' trees. It is believed that he was seeing the spirits of the pre-flood giants. Cross reference the wording in Numbers 13:33 when the men sent ahead to spy out the land of Canaan said that they were 'AS GRASSHOPPERS' in the sight of the giants.

I know that some think that giants are the product of angels and humans but that’s not what it says. It says that in those days there were giants. I’m wondering if 1000 yr old men had height to match their age. Since they didn’t have children until their 80s and 90s, is it safe to assume their major growth spurts were around 100 during their adolescence?

 

[S3RV4NT]

I know that some think that giants are the product of angels and humans but that’s not what it says. It says that in those days there were giants. I’m wondering if 1000 yr old men had height to match their age. Since they didn’t have children until their 80s and 90s, is it safe to assume their major growth spurts were around 100 during their adolescence?

Well, it actually does say more than you are implying.

(Gen. 6:4)
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

All references to Mighty Men in scripture refer to Giants - by simple tracking of the entire Bible.

Just clarifying is all ...

Yes, when you are considering a life span of roughly 1000 years, I believe it's fair to consider all those possibilities you are proposing. Absolutely.

 

[wattie]

I want to ask for something that CCers love to give....their opinion. Sometimes when we read something our preconceptions cause us to skim over details that cause friction with conflicting information. Please read this with new eyes. Starting with Adam in Genesis we notice by the genealogy account that their lifespans were eight to ten times longer before the flood. We also notice that their first born children were produced in their seventies. In Genesis 6 it states that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were attractive and procreated with them. Then it states, this was at the time of the giants.

Here’s my question based on this information. Since men lived longer, and children were born in their seventies, is this because they didn’t hit puberty until their sixties? Is it plausible to conclude that because they lived ten times longer, they grew ten times larger? Were the immediate descendants of Adam the giants that were referenced in chapter 6? Post flood is when Noah was instructed to kill and eat animals. I was curious if this might have shortened our lifespans genetically? I understand this isn’t what we were taught. I’m not adding information, merely connecting the dots.

I'm inclined to think that men were much bigger, given fossils of most plants and other animals were much bigger, but 10 times is getting fairy tale huge! 😀

But saying that, there are plants now that are only a foot high that once stretched up to beyond 3 metres.

You've got animals now that dont stop growing till they die and if they had an ideal climate, how big did they get?

The tales of dragons across different cultures.. are some of those bigger versions of some lizards and the like we see now?

Its interesting stuff, altho the actual evidence isn't all that complete yet.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Is it plausible to conclude that because they lived ten times longer, they grew ten times larger?

No it is not plausible for the simple reason that Gigantism is an anomaly. Giants are essentially freaks. Giants were the result of unnatural sexual unions. And because God deemed those angels to be too dangerous He imprisoned them in Tartarus to await their final judgment.

 

[Lanolin]

I think the planet was quite different to how it is today and the years were maybe shorter as it was spinning faster, and it wasnt tipped on its axis.
Also before the flood the continents wouldnt have been like they are today it was all one big landmass.

I dont know about how giants came about though but in general I think from our orgins our dna has been slowly devolving as a result of being combined and recombined all the time thanks to sexual reproduction.

asexual reproduction or cloning you can make exact copies of organisms but with sexual reproduction you will always get a random diversity. Thats just the nature of dna replication. the dominant genes win out over the recessive. If dna is too closely related you get a lot of genetic 'defects' showing up because those genes cant turn off.

in a nutshell. Thats why incest is discouraged.

 

[Lanolin]

The interesting thing is in the plant world today breeders have been breeding more dwarf plants to fit in smaller compact gardens like even dwarf sunflowers.

Japanese have been doing bonsai for centuries.

And you notice with dogs breeders are now favouring tiny dogs.

 

[Gideon300]

I understand your logic but environment strongly influences genetics. An alcoholic grandmother causes vit D(?) deficiency in her grandkids. When people grow abnormally tall today it is because of pituitary issues. If original genetics were programmed to have us grow for a hundred years, and live into our 900s, than that wouldn’t be unhealthy. However if lizards grew to 50 feet tall, why not humans? It obviously isn’t what is commonly taught. Maybe the giants within Jericho were vegetarians? I just think it’s a possibility.

Vegetarians have to find alternate sources of vital minerals, especially iron and B12. I think that the modern diet, that includes a good deal of meat, is responsible for each generation being bigger than the last. That and an inclination to gluttony that is relatively recent.

 

[tourist]

I know that some think that giants are the product of angels and humans but that’s not what it says. It says that in those days there were giants. I’m wondering if 1000 yr old men had height to match their age. Since they didn’t have children until their 80s and 90s, is it safe to assume their major growth spurts were around 100 during their adolescence?

They must've ate their Wheaties.

 

[Hungry]

The interesting thing is in the plant world today breeders have been breeding more dwarf plants to fit in smaller compact gardens like even dwarf sunflowers.

Japanese have been doing bonsai for centuries.

And you notice with dogs breeders are now favouring tiny dogs.

Are you suggesting this is what God did with us? I’m kidding

 

[oyster67]

I want to ask for something that CCers love to give....their opinion. Sometimes when we read something our preconceptions cause us to skim over details that cause friction with conflicting information. Please read this with new eyes. Starting with Adam in Genesis we notice by the genealogy account that their lifespans were eight to ten times longer before the flood. We also notice that their first born children were produced in their seventies. In Genesis 6 it states that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were attractive and procreated with them. Then it states, this was at the time of the giants.

Here’s my question based on this information. Since men lived longer, and children were born in their seventies, is this because they didn’t hit puberty until their sixties? Is it plausible to conclude that because they lived ten times longer, they grew ten times larger? Were the immediate descendants of Adam the giants that were referenced in chapter 6? Post flood is when Noah was instructed to kill and eat animals. I was curious if this might have shortened our lifespans genetically? I understand this isn’t what we were taught. I’m not adding information, merely connecting the dots.

Lizards and snakes keep getting bigger as they age, but people seem to stop at a certain point. Most people think that giants happen when weirdos from space start messing with earthwomen.