The Trinity Doctrine in the Bible

[BamaPapist]

No, it does not.

Mediation is a two-way street.


Do you not understand the conflict between this statement and what you wrote above?

There is no conflict, a mediator is a go-between. That’s what you are doing when you are praying on someone’s behalf.

 

[Truth7t7]

If you ask me to pray for you, i would be asking for something on your behalf to God. That makes me a mediator. Paul says that is pleasing to God in verse 3. That does not mean Christ is not the one mediator between us and the father. He most definitely is.

Rev Ch 5:8 is the answer to your last question. The elders in heaven are bowing down to God on his throne in Heaven and they have with them the prayers of the saints.

I agree 100%, the 24 elders are in the spiritual before Jesus Christ the Lamb, and "Yes" thay have the golden vials full of the prayers of the saints, these vials represent the Vials in plagues poured out in Revelation chapter 16, that will be at the call of the (Two Witnesses) seen in Revelation chapter 11

Revelation 5:8KJV
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Revelation 15:6-7KJV
6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

 

[BamaPapist]

And, somehow you think that a man (pope, priest, etc.) is going to help you understand scripture better than the Holy Spirit of God???

You clearly don’t know the role of the Pope. I believe the 2000 year old Church that Christ established won’t lead me astray.

 

[GaryA]

You clearly don’t know the role of the Pope.

Sure, I do. And, it is not the "glorious" thing you think it is.

I believe the 2000 year old Church that Christ established won’t lead me astray.

The Church that Christ established is a lot less likely to lead you astray than the one you think is that Church already has...

 

[ewq1938]

If I put alms (money) in the offering plate at church and the usher takes the plate up to pastor, I’m still the one who offered the money to the church, not the usher.

Obviously that example is flawed because it is not the elder prayers that are given to the angel so saying elders put money in the offering plate at church then an usher taking it somewhere is not the same thing.

The elders only have the prayers, then give it to the angel and ONLY THE ANGEL offers up the prayers to God. Never do the elders offer up to God anything of their own, nor of the prayers of the saints. You are wrong on this and no amount of denial is going to work. Sola Scriptura defeats your errant theology.

 

[ewq1938]

You clearly don’t know the role of the Pope. I believe the 2000 year old Church that Christ established won’t lead me astray.

Christ did not establish the Apostate Roman church that didn't even exist in the first two centuries. The RCC is purely pagan with slight and deceptive hints of a true Christian church.

 

[Evmur]

Can anybody help make The Doctrine of The Trinity clear to those who are new to the Faith using scripture alone?

There are only 2 known verses in all of scripture that even hint at the concept of a '3-person God' who is actually 'One'.

Matthew 28:19 lists the 3 persons of the Trinity, but does not describe their relationship in any way or teach the "concept" of the Trinity at all.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
(Mt. 28:19)
It is very significant to note that after this verse, the only baptisms that are related in detail describe baptizing in the name of Jesus or Jesus Christ. These are found in Acts 2:38 & 8:12

The other verse that comes close to describing the Trinity is Ephesians 4:4-6.

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
(Eph. 4:4-6)
This verse, as well, fails to teach the actual "concept" of the Trinity.

There are many pagan religions with 3-person gods which go into great detail about the 3-person relationship of their gods and the history of how they came about, but in Christianity, there is no teaching anywhere in scripture about the Trinity. The word Trinity is found nowhere from Genesis to Revelation.

There is not a single book in the 66 books of the Bible, much less even a paragraph, that teaches the actual concept of the Trinity.

So how do we teach this concept to a new inquisitive Christian who is interested in learning about it in their Bible?

If you can teach this concept using the Bible alone, please supply those books, chapters and verses for the edification of those who are eager to learn.

I been saved more than 40 years and before that I was brung up RC and I never yet heard a satisfactory explanation. Fact is it is a mystery.

We know that the Father is God
we know that Jesus is God
we know that the Holy Ghost is God

We know that they are different Persons

We know that they are one and the same Yahweh God.

YOU are a triune creature, you have a body a soul and a spirit, these are not the same and yet together they make up one complete person ... you.

 

[PennEd]

I have never said that these aren’t the prayers of the saints. I have no idea where you’re getting the idea that I said that.

First off, the way you framed your post, certainly made it appear you said the elders were the ones praying.

Secondly, the prayers WE send to God are collected, and THEY are the prayers that the elders take and offer. NOT prayers from ANYONE in Heaven.

 

[BamaPapist]

First off, the way you framed your post, certainly made it appear you said the elders were the ones praying.

Secondly, the prayers WE send to God are collected, and THEY are the prayers that the elders take and offer. NOT prayers from ANYONE in Heaven.

Prove that bolded part. If you misunderstood what I typed, I can’t do anything about that.

 

[BamaPapist]

Christ did not establish the Apostate Roman church that didn't even exist in the first two centuries. The RCC is purely pagan with slight and deceptive hints of a true Christian church.

Ok, so if the Catholic Church did not exist as you claim in the first or second centuries...I shouldn’t be able to find any Catholics or Christians that practiced Catholic beliefs right?

 

[BamaPapist]

Obviously that example is flawed because it is not the elder prayers that are given to the angel so saying elders put money in the offering plate at church then an usher taking it somewhere is not the same thing.

The elders only have the prayers, then give it to the angel and ONLY THE ANGEL offers up the prayers to God. Never do the elders offer up to God anything of their own, nor of the prayers of the saints. You are wrong on this and no amount of denial is going to work. Sola Scriptura defeats your errant theology.

If Sola Scriptura worked, we wouldn’t be disagreeing.

Wow, No one has said they are the elders prayers but the elders are in possession of them. So they are the ones giving them over to God.

 

[Athanasius377]

Those two verses do not show that the Bible is the only infallible source of our faith. It says scripture is profitable, not sufficient.

No, it says that it is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. So being complete and equipped for every good work is most certainly profitable. And is the ONLY God-Breathed (θεόπνευστος) source of faith and practice given to the Church, As opposed to tradition, which is nebulous and always changing and uncertain from age to age. Or as Luther once put it, a "magic bag".

 

[Nehemiah6]

You clearly don’t know the role of the Pope. I believe the 2000 year old Church that Christ established won’t lead me astray.

What if it has been leading you astray from the get-go? What if the very basis of salvation presented by this church is false? Since John Wycliffe exposed the errors of the RCC while still a Catholic, you owe it to yourself to see that he had to say, and why he was attacked for speaking the truth. Then check out all the Reformers, who were all Catholics to begin with.

As to the Pope, since the Orthodox Church rejects his role, you should check out what they have to say. The Orthodox Church preceded the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[BamaPapist]

No, it says that it is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. So being complete and equipped for every good work is most certainly profitable. And is the ONLY God-Breathed (θεόπνευστος) source of faith and practice given to the Church, As opposed to tradition, which is nebulous and always changing and uncertain from age to age. Or as Luther once put it, a "magic bag".

Wrong, that oral Tradition you’re bashing is the Word of God and were commanded to follow it. At first the apostles handed down our faith orally. The early church fathers were responsible for transmitting the knowledge of what they learned onto future generations.

1 Thessalonians Ch 2
12 to lead a life worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

2 Thessalonians Ch 2
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

1 Corinthians Ch 11
2 I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.

2 Thessalonians Ch 3
6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.

2 Timothy Ch 2
1 You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus,
2 and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

2 Timothy Ch 1
13 Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus;
14 guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.

 

[BamaPapist]

What if it has been leading you astray from the get-go? What if the very basis of salvation presented by this church is false? Since John Wycliffe exposed the errors of the RCC while still a Catholic, you owe it to yourself to see that he had to say, and why he was attacked for speaking the truth. Then check out all the Reformers, who were all Catholics to begin with.

As to the Pope, since the Orthodox Church rejects his role, you should check out what they have to say. The Orthodox Church preceded the Roman Catholic Church.

I’ve read Wycliffe and he believed in the Donatist heresy, so if he’s the best you got your in trouble. He is definitely not more credible than the early Church fathers on what early Christians believed.

Some of the Orthodox Churches can trace their history back to the apostolic age just as the Catholic Church can, but they broke off.

 

[phil36]

It's quite simple the Roman Catholic church by putting itself as the infallable authority over scripture, have made themselves to be just like the Pharisees. The people Jesus renounced for adding to scripture with their own teachings adding burdens on the people. Just Like Rome.

 

[BamaPapist]

It's quite simple the Roman Catholic church by putting itself as the infallable authority over scripture, have made themselves to be just like the Pharisees. The people Jesus renounced for adding to scripture with their own teachings adding burdens on the people. Just Like Rome.

No, the church’s role is biblical, historical, and logical. Sola scriptura is none of those things. The chaos it’s created in Protestantism is evident, no Christian church believed it for 1600 years, and the Bible doesn’t even claim it is sufficient.

 

[Athanasius377]

Wrong, that oral Tradition you’re bashing is the Word of God and were commanded to follow it. At first the apostles handed down our faith orally. The early church fathers were responsible for transmitting the knowledge of what they learned onto future generations.

1 Thessalonians Ch 2
12 to lead a life worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

2 Thessalonians Ch 2
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

1 Corinthians Ch 11
2 I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.

2 Thessalonians Ch 3
6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.

2 Timothy Ch 2
1 You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus,
2 and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

2 Timothy Ch 1
13 Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus;
14 guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.

And those words and traditions (παράδοσις, that which is handed down) became what we call the New Testament. Paul had already preached the gospel to the churches at thessolonia and Corinth and was reminding the believers in those churches of this fact. He was not imparting some secret knowledge that only the hierarchy of Rome knows about.

In fact, If tradition is so important to the modern Roman believer, where can I find a copy of this "Tradition"? I mean, the Jews have the Mishnah and a commentary on the traditions in the Talmud all while under great persecution. Surely Rome has produced a definitive edition of Tradition after 2000 years. Could you provide an Amazon or Barnes and Noble link?

 

[Magenta]

Find it, all you have to do is find just one Christian in the 1st 400 years of Christianity that held these uniquely Protestant beliefs. You won’t find it, not because you can’t find Christian writers from those centuries, it’s just that they are all Catholics. It’s so obvious when you read the beliefs of these people.

Wildly speculative. Not everyone wrote books about their beliefs. You have zero proof that nobody ascribed to Sola Scriptura then!

 

[Magenta]

So let me get this straight...
You believe that Protestantism is the authentic Christian faith of the Early Church (that was present during at least the 2nd century)...but you cannot name one Christian during that time that wrote about these beliefs Protestants have today and held those beliefs themselves?

Believing the bodily assumption of Mary is mandatory for Catholics, yet is nowhere found in the Bible.

Can you prove anyone believed this prior to the third century?