Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

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Absolutely

Absolutely

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cv5 said:
No sir.
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he thinks the first seal is Jesus sending his church as a conquering king with a weopon of war....and the church goes out conquering.

His only reasoning is white horses can only represent righteousness.
 
cv5

cv5

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Absolutely said:
he thinks the first seal is Jesus sending his church as a conquering king with a weopon of war....and the church goes out conquering.

His only reasoning is white horses can only represent righteousness.
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His theory does not fit into the confines of the parameters of the 70th week of Daniel, which any presentation of end time eschatology must. Hopefully he will pick up on this.

The historist-premillennial view is of course faulty. Hopefully the onlookers to this thread can see this. Only the pre-trib premillennial futurist view presents an iron clad case. Buttoned down tightly no loose ends very tidy. In terms of Scripture of course.......(y)
 
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lamad

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Absolutely said:
he thinks the first seal is Jesus sending his church as a conquering king with a weopon of war....and the church goes out conquering.

His only reasoning is white horses can only represent righteousness.
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No, that is not the other reason. Another big reason is the context: Jesus ascensding and sending the Holy Spirit down. One must not pull that first seal out of its context. However, the color what is a very good reason why it cannot be anything but something righteous.
 
cv5

cv5

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Jordan said:
The Lord, doesnt deliver us from the fire, but puts us into the fire to make us truly wwhite and pure. {Purely HIS under fire. He doesnt like cop outs, but the brave and courageous thru HIM. The wrath p[eriod after the rapture is different than the wrath quoted above, know the difference IMO
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I am not sure exactly what you're talking about but Paul is clearly referring to the time of tribulation/70th week here. Not final judgment/damnation.
 
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lamad

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cv5 said:
His theory does not fit into the confines of the parameters of the 70th week of Daniel, which any presentation of end time eschatology must. Hopefully he will pick up on this.

The historist-premillennial view is of course faulty. Hopefully the onlookers to this thread can see this. Only the pre-trib premillennial futurist view presents an iron clad case. Buttoned down tightly no loose ends very tidy. In terms of Scripture of course.......(y)
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OF COURSE it don't! John and God don't get to the 70th week until the 7th seal.

God "marked" (His word not mine) the 70th week with 7's for our assistance.
Sorry,, but making John's calling to heaven in 95 AD the rapture still future of us is ANYTHING but "ironclad" unless someone melted the iron. It is extremely poor exegesis.

Tell us all - since you think you know - WHEN did Jesus ascend and send the Holy Spirit down?
 
cv5

cv5

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lamad said:
No, that is not the other reason. Another big reason is the context: Jesus ascensding and sending the Holy Spirit down. One must not pull that first seal out of its context. However, the color what is a very good reason why it cannot be anything but something righteous.
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At what point in Revelation do you start counting for the 70th week to begin?
 
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lamad

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cv5 said:
I am not sure exactly what you're talking about but Paul is clearly referring to the time of tribulation/70th week here. Not final judgment/damnation.
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The only "other" wrath to consider is the wrath of Satan which will be felt in the days of GT. But cannot be separated from God's wrath in time, because they are simultaneous.
 
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lamad

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Absolutely said:
he thinks the first seal is Jesus sending his church as a conquering king with a weopon of war....and the church goes out conquering.

His only reasoning is white horses can only represent righteousness.
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The crown is the type given to winner at the games: a victor's crown. Sorry, but that kind of crown does not fit the Beast. The Greek word behind "conquer" was, in every other case, translated as "overcome." DID the church have anything to "overcome" as the gospel went forward? Just look at the life of Paul! Look at the martyrs (the 5th seal). The weapons of our warfare are spiritual: the written word of God!
 
cv5

cv5

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lamad said:
OF COURSE it don't! John and God don't get to the 70th week until the 7th seal.

God "marked" (His word not mine) the 70th week with 7's for our assistance.
Sorry,, but making John's calling to heaven in 95 AD the rapture still future of us is ANYTHING but "ironclad" unless someone melted the iron. It is extremely poor exegesis.

Tell us all - since you think you know - WHEN did Jesus ascend and send the Holy Spirit down?
Click to expand...
lamad said:
OF COURSE it don't! John and God don't get to the 70th week until the 7th seal.

God "marked" (His word not mine) the 70th week with 7's for our assistance.
Sorry,, but making John's calling to heaven in 95 AD the rapture still future of us is ANYTHING but "ironclad" unless someone melted the iron. It is extremely poor exegesis.

Tell us all - since you think you know - WHEN did Jesus ascend and send the Holy Spirit down?
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On the contrary I think we have laid out a very compelling case. The 70th week kicks off when the man of sin is revealed. Paul could not be more compelling on this point. I don't see any man of sin being revealed at the seventh seal.
 
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lamad

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Absolutely said:
YES
Plenty of mortals survive the trib after the pretrib rapture and the Jewish belivers raptured in rev 14.
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There are more Jewish believers who survive when Jesus touches down and creates a new escape route out of Jerusalem with a new valley!
 
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lamad

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Jordan said:
The Lord, doesnt deliver us from the fire, but puts us into the fire to make us truly wwhite and pure. {Purely HIS under fire. He doesnt like cop outs, but the brave and courageous thru HIM. The wrath p[eriod after the rapture is different than the wrath quoted above, know the difference IMO
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In your opinion, what other wrath is there? Please explain.
 
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lamad

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TheDivineWatermark said:
They will be permitted to ENTER the MK age because, 1) they will have been "INVITED" (during the Trib yrs), and 2) provided they will have ACCEPTED that "INVITATION"... but recall, it (their being "INVITED") will be DURING a time of GREAT DECEPTION and GREAT PERSECUTION (i.e. during the TRIB years)...

... these Gentiles who survive the trib years are shown (as "STILL-LIVING" persons) in the separation judgment of the nations / Gentiles: "the Sheep" [/righteous] being called "ye BLESSED" by our Lord, and "the goats" being called "ye CURSED" by our Lord (whereas "the least of these My brethren" [third element, BESIDES the Sheep and goats] vv.40,45 are not the ones BEING "judged / separated" in this particular judgment; NOR are they "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [who will have been "raptured" out WELL-BEFORE this point in the chronology])--

so "BLESSED" and "CURSED"... sound familiar from another text of Scripture??

Major clue as to "who" these "least" are, in vv.40,45 [the believing remnant of Israel!]... and to have "aided / blessed" those particular ppl, who by the way will be the ones to CARRY FORTH the "INVITATION [message]" [during those Trib yrs of GREAT PERSECUTION, for them] will have put those Gentiles at great risk to themselves, as well...)



yup, that's correct
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I believe the "invite" comes after the sheep and goat judgment - i.e. the "judgment of the nations."
 
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lamad

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TheDivineWatermark said:
Your verse brought to mind another verse:

"Jeremiah 31:22-26 “A woman shall compass a man.”

"It refers to Israel as the woman, the timid, weak, forsaken one, who now will compass a man: that is have power given unto her to become the ruler. (Some have translated this difficult passage, “The woman shall be turned into a man.”) Then follows the promise of assurance." -- Gaebelein, Commentary on Jeremiah 31 (from BibleHub)


[this is how I understand this ^ Jer31:22 verse ^ , also]


"A woman shall compass [H5437 - tə-sō-w-ḇêḇ / sabab - encompass, turn about] a man."
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I think after all judgments before the millennial reign, men are going to be very scarce compared to women.
 
Jordan

Jordan

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Actually the two absolutes rules of the Lord I know are EQUALITY and CHOICE.

Men make as many bad mistakes as women

Conversely women make as many bad mistakes as men.

Jesus created the genome and there is no sin gene in the X or Y chromosome.
 
Jordan

Jordan

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Yes, you are probabily right about reproductivity, but that is a factor of the question no one HERE seems to have mentioned, the BIGGEST CHOICE in changing our DNA right now, something we allow to be injected into us
 
Jordan

Jordan

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lamad said:
There are more Jewish believers who survive when Jesus touches down and creates a new escape route out of Jerusalem with a new valley!
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Any Jewish believer would be a Christian, believer before or after the Tribulation. Their a new creature, reborn in the SPIRIT

Same rules apply to a;ll, Jesus has no favorites and the rules apply to all and everyone. Again its called equality
 
Jordan

Jordan

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lamad said:
In your opinion, what other wrath is there? Please explain.
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The WRATH PERIOD is after the coming of the Lord in the clouds. Its a period of 45 ays after His return in the air. He dpoesnt touch down until the Battle of Armeggeddon, with us behind HIM

1335 days minus 1290 days equals 45 days

Your welcome
 
Jordan

Jordan

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We dont want to miss out riding behind HIM, our Husband and LEADER, SAVIOUR and KING. We have followed a winner, and THE WINNER
 
cv5

cv5

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Jordan said:
Any Jewish believer would be a Christian, believer before or after the Tribulation. Their a new creature, reborn in the SPIRIT

Same rules apply to a;ll, Jesus has no favorites and the rules apply to all and everyone. Again its called equality
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Not exactly. Christians are a type of firstfruits. The archetype being the resurrected Christ. The Church, the Bride of Christ, is one and done. Starts at Pentecost ends at the rapture. Paul wrote extensively on the fact that the Church is a mystery not revealed until Paul was given his commission....and revelation.

The martyred tribulation saints are.......Tribulation saints. They are definitely not included in the specific category of the Bride. The 144, 000 are another type of firstfruits. And they aren't Christians either. Neither are any of the OT saints.
 
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