Licenses and Lying

[Twistii]

Hi everyone.

God bless you all.

I'm currently in a bit of a pickle right now.

So, I have non-Christian parents who are immigrants from a foreign country.

Their English ability is currently not at a very high level (not that I'm necessarily trying to state that it ought to be).

They work as nail technicians in a nail salon.

Every two years nail technicians are supposed to complete five hours of continuing education if they wish to renew their license.

Apparently, some books we have were mailed to my parents from my state's State Board (I don't know when).

With a book, it seems like you can complete the course in the book, and affirm online that you've done it, and also pay money online (essentially, I don't think they try to test your knowledge, it's more of a, click a yes box to affirm you did the course and then you pay up).

Basically, per the orders of my father, (not that I'm necessarily trying to state that what I've done is therefore justified),

I think I affirmed for both my mother and father that they had completed the course in the book (when they hadn't).

I also answered lies on behalf of my mother and father on a survey the book people wanted us to complete.

A possible question you may have is,

"Why don't they complete the course? It could help them with doing their job the right way."

My response would be

The language used in the book is like an academic textbook, I suppose. Let's say an average native English speaker has a pretty decent level of comprehension of English and may encounter some level of challenge in trying to understand the text (which in my opinion, probably would still not be a very high hurdle for them). I'm sure my parents would have a very, very, difficult time trying to understand the text.

A possible question you may have is,

"Why don't you help them understand the text?"

My response would be

Well, I am willing to try to help them understand the text. But I think the language barrier between us and language obstacles in the way provide too much of a challenge for them to be willing to comply. I assume it would take hard work
and time, and I think my parents feel like they have enough going on in their lives.

A possible question you may have is,

"Why not go somewhere or use a course in their native language?"

My response would be

Based on what my father has told me, I think you can go to a school in a densely populated city (I think one option might be in a city about an hour and thirty minutes away) and have them teach you or help you through a course or something, but I don't think my parents want to do that.

In addition, (and I hope I don't come off as judgey here) I think I should mention that I think my parents would rather go through with the easy route of lying than go through with completing the course in the book.

Now some questions I have are,

1) When we go through the process of renewing my parents' individual licenses (as opposed to affirming they had completed the course), and they would like me to help, should I refuse to do so? Seeing as how they never truly completed a 2021 course (in the past it's been this way as well, so I believe their current individual licenses aren't "valid").

2) It's not like they're surgeons operating with illegitimate licenses obtained with very little knowledge on the appropriate subject matter, but I really, really, really shouldn't do anything regarding their current individual licenses and the license for the nail salon, right?

It seems to me the answer is to do nothing about them, and if they want me to help them lie, decline, even if they get upset or angry, right?

 

[Twistii]

If I didn’t mention it in this post already (which I don’t think I did) I really ought to be very grateful for all the work my parents put both IN their jobs, and OUTSIDE their jobs. ❤️

 

[Dino246]

Well... as you said, it's a pickle, but you put yourself there.

The honest thing to do is to tell your parents that, as of right now, they are not certified, and that they need to get that sorted out. You can ask the State Board, anonymously, if the course materials are available in your parents' language. By the way, if this is a re-certification, how did they get certified in the first place?

This is an opportunity to witness to your parents by your honesty and humility. Owning your wrongdoing with them, and possibly with the Board, is the right way forward.

 

[Twistii]

Well... as you said, it's a pickle, but you put yourself there.

The honest thing to do is to tell your parents that, as of right now, they are not certified, and that they need to get that sorted out. You can ask the State Board, anonymously, if the course materials are available in your parents' language. By the way, if this is a re-certification, how did they get certified in the first place?

This is an opportunity to witness to your parents by your honesty and humility. Owning your wrongdoing with them, and possibly with the Board, is the right way forward.

I think they take an exam, according to my mother

 

[tourist]

If I didn’t mention it in this post already (which I don’t think I did) I really ought to be very grateful for all the work my parents put both IN their jobs, and OUTSIDE their jobs. ❤️

I respect anyone who works hard and does their best regardless of occupation. @Dino246 offered wise counsel regarding the licensing.

 

[Twistii]

Well... as you said, it's a pickle, but you put yourself there.

The honest thing to do is to tell your parents that, as of right now, they are not certified, and that they need to get that sorted out. You can ask the State Board, anonymously, if the course materials are available in your parents' language. By the way, if this is a re-certification, how did they get certified in the first place?

This is an opportunity to witness to your parents by your honesty and humility. Owning your wrongdoing with them, and possibly with the Board, is the right way forward.

Also I think they have to complete a certain amount of hours of education or something maybe. I’m not sure how secure the process is though.

 

[Twistii]

Well... as you said, it's a pickle, but you put yourself there.

The honest thing to do is to tell your parents that, as of right now, they are not certified, and that they need to get that sorted out. You can ask the State Board, anonymously, if the course materials are available in your parents' language. By the way, if this is a re-certification, how did they get certified in the first place?

This is an opportunity to witness to your parents by your honesty and humility. Owning your wrongdoing with them, and possibly with the Board, is the right way forward.

@tourist
Also maybe it’s worth mentioning that if the course was available in Vietnamese, I think there’s a 99% chance my Dad wouldn’t go through with it, but maybe a 70% chance my Mom wouldn’t go through with it.

It’s also worth mentioning it’s possible that the level of fluency in the native language of both my parents might not be very high (no offense) and/or due to regional dialects there’s issues.

I think the latter (as opposed to the former) is most likely true.

So there might be difficulty in completing the course in their native language without qualified help.

But maybe there’s a course that’s sorta easy or a bit challenging to understand.

Even then, I really really really don’t think my Dad would want to go through with it.

 

[Lanolin]

not sure I understand what your problems is or what the course was exactly.
if its just tick the boxes and they need help interpreting, then. you were helping them but I do t know about the course, if they say they did it when they didnt and they do something wrong or break the law or regulations cos they didnt know about it because they did not do the course then they could lose their license.

Then they wont have a job, so think seriously about what you are doing, Its never ok to lie.

 

[Lanolin]

If you somehow think you have to 'fake it to make it' and you see other people do things that gets them ahead, well in the short term it may well be the case but they will get found out in the end. Lying has repercussions.

 

[tourist]

@tourist
Also maybe it’s worth mentioning that if the course was available in Vietnamese, I think there’s a 99% chance my Dad wouldn’t go through with it, but maybe a 70% chance my Mom wouldn’t go through with it.

It’s also worth mentioning it’s possible that the level of fluency in the native language of both my parents might not be very high (no offense) and/or due to regional dialects there’s issues.

I think the latter (as opposed to the former) is most likely true.

So there might be difficulty in completing the course in their native language without qualified help.

But maybe there’s a course that’s sorta easy or a bit challenging to understand.

Even then, I really really really don’t think my Dad would want to go through with it.

Can you be your parents qualifying help? You read the questions and input their answers.

 

[Lanolin]

I was reading a book that was touted to be non-fiction but actually turned out on investigation to be a lie or highly embellished.
it was called 3 cups of tea and it was about this american climber who got schools built in remote villages in pakistan. He didnt have any money but a rich benefactor gave him some money and so he made good on his promise. Then the rich benefecator made him head of his charity to solicit more donations to get schools built because word spread and they wanted more. The ghost writer wrote the book about it and it got into the new york times bestseller list where people opened their wallets to support this worthy cause.

a likley story but the story made out some things that werent true, like he was kidnapped when he wasnt, and he was nursed to health by villagers over several days when he wasnt in the area. Then it turns out that much of the money was spent on this guys travel expenses and accomodations than actually going to the charity and schools themselves. He didnt keep good records.

when jorunalists found out that much of the book was actually a lie (or embellsihed to make him look like a hero) donations dropped off and the ghost writer comitted suicide. Schools that were built were often not used what they were intended for, and they werent able to pay teachers (not sure how it all worked, book was kinda fuzzy about that) .

anyway moral of the story is, your intentions may be good, but if you lie about stuff to make you or others look good, its never good for anybody, and people wont trust your word. You'll be in disgrace and wont be able to live with yourself.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

1) When we go through the process of renewing my parents' individual licenses (as opposed to affirming they had completed the course), and they would like me to help, should I refuse to do so?

yes.

2) It's not like they're surgeons operating with illegitimate licenses obtained with very little knowledge on the appropriate subject matter, but I really, really, really shouldn't do anything regarding their current individual licenses and the license for the nail salon, right?

This is just rationalization.

The reason your parents can work in their chosen occupation is because you lied to the State in affirming your parents had completed some coursework when they had not completed the course. and they are lying as well in having you affirm something that is untrue.

If the State finds out that they did not complete the coursework, the State may impose penalties and your parents may not be able to become certified at all. There is no sense in putting them in that position. At that point, their livelihood may be taken away from them permanently. Additionally, they are putting the license of the salon owner at risk. Why do that to themselves and the salon owner?

I know it's not always easy to keep up licensing and it might seem to be a waste of time and money. but in the long run, they will benefit by completing the coursework and not lying to the State. they will no longer have to live under that foreboding and anxiety that they may be "caught".

Have them reapply to take the course now and become certified when they complete the course.

I hope you will be able to stand up to your parents and tell them you will not affirm in the future.

also, go to God and confess to Him what you have done:

1 John 1:

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Twistii]

Can you be your parents qualifying help? You read the questions and input their answers.

If ur referring to course questions, there’s two books (they’re the same) that, to do, you have to read stuff in it.
Assistance I provide would probably be to some extent helpful, but I still doubt they’d be willing to go through that process (My Dad, most definitely, my Mom, most likely)

 

[Twistii]

yes.





This is just rationalization.

The reason your parents can work in their chosen occupation is because you lied to the State in affirming your parents had completed some coursework when they had not completed the course. and they are lying as well in having you affirm something that is untrue.

If the State finds out that they did not complete the coursework, the State may impose penalties and your parents may not be able to become certified at all. There is no sense in putting them in that position. At that point, their livelihood may be taken away from them permanently. Additionally, they are putting the license of the salon owner at risk. Why do that to themselves and the salon owner?

I know it's not always easy to keep up licensing and it might seem to be a waste of time and money. but in the long run, they will benefit by completing the coursework and not lying to the State. they will no longer have to live under that foreboding and anxiety that they may be "caught".

Have them reapply to take the course now and become certified when they complete the course.

I hope you will be able to stand up to your parents and tell them you will not affirm in the future.

also, go to God and confess to Him what you have done:

1 John 1:

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hello,
Basically, let’s say I refuse to help,

if my Dad calls someone else for help going through the process of license renewal (now that they’ve “completed” their continuing education), do you think I should tell that person that my parents actually have not completed their continuing education?

I feel like if it’s a case of, they’re most likely going to proceed to not lend assistance, I should do it.
but if it’s a case of they’re most likely not going to proceed to not lend assistance, I shouldn’t do it maybe.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Twistii]

thanks for your replies everyone

 

[Twistii]

not sure I understand what your problems is or what the course was exactly.
if its just tick the boxes and they need help interpreting, then. you were helping them but I do t know about the course, if they say they did it when they didnt and they do something wrong or break the law or regulations cos they didnt know about it because they did not do the course then they could lose their license.

Then they wont have a job, so think seriously about what you are doing, Its never ok to lie.

Can you be your parents qualifying help? You read the questions and input their answers.

But basically,
to verify that you DID do your continuing education,
it was like a affirmation kind of deal,
simply ”saying” that u did it,
no exam to test ur knowledge, essentially

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Hello,
Basically, let’s say I refuse to help,

if my Dad calls someone else for help going through the process of license renewal (now that they’ve “completed” their continuing education), do you think I should tell that person that my parents actually have not completed their continuing education?

I feel like if it’s a case of, they’re most likely going to proceed to not lend assistance, I should do it.
but if it’s a case of they’re most likely not going to proceed to not lend assistance, I shouldn’t do it maybe.

What are your thoughts?

Tell your parents to knock it off, get their licensing done correctly, and quit putting themselves in jeopardy (as well as the license of the person who owns the salon where they are currently employed).

Here's what Scripture says about the situation:

Romans 13 (NLT):

1 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God.

2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished.

3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.

4 The authorities are God's servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God's servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong.

5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience.


Hope/pray everything works out so you are no longer burdened by this situation.

 

[Twistii]

Tell your parents to knock it off, get their licensing done correctly, and quit putting themselves in jeopardy (as well as the license of the person who owns the salon where they are currently employed).

Here's what Scripture says about the situation:

Romans 13 (NLT):

1 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God.

2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished.

3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.

4 The authorities are God's servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God's servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong.

5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience.


Hope/pray everything works out so you are no longer burdened by this situation.

But basically,
If they seek help from someone other than me (to get their individual licenses renewed)
Should I seek to inform the helper that my parents haven’t completed their continuing education?

 

[Mii]

But basically,
If they seek help from someone other than me (to get their individual licenses renewed)
Should I seek to inform the helper that my parents haven’t completed their continuing education?

Well...I've been in similar situations before. I want to give you the "Work in progress" lesson that I'm still learning about situations such as the one you described but it's so arbitrary that I don't think I should.

I DO think that this type of thing can be a ploy/trap of the enemy to ensnare you in the letter of American law and by proxy put a person dangerously close to pharisaical nonsense.

No you aren't intentionally being a busybody or a tattle-tale...but you "may" be misunderstanding your responsibility in the situation.

There are safeguards within the legal process to catch people that are disobeying/flaunting the law. Let the law do its own work. Unless you are a lawyer/law enforcer/magistrate/lawmaker I think you stand a real possibility of biting off more than you can chew.

I felt like I was doing this for good reasons when I did it. Being an image bearer...being above reproach...obeying the laws of the land...etc. etc. but let me just say that I think you can take that too far and it is error/sin.

The bible speaks against gossip...it speaks against being a tale bearer...

You'd have a hard time though saying the bible speaks against being an informant but this is a really tricky one and I truly believe the Lord will lead you within that clearly if that's for you. Legally I don't think you are required to inform others or inform on them. You'd have to check the law of course but especially since this is not a crime mentioned in scripture directly relating to something specific, I think you've done what you can by telling whomever that you cannot help them because it violates your conscience and you don't want to know any more about it.

I'll admit that I didn't fully understand your OP and following posts regarding the intricacies of the situation but I have been in situations of a "sin by proxy" Once it gets to a third-hand situation I would SERIOUSLY question why you are holding onto it. There are reasons to do so but mostly not.

This may be a good experience to know when to set boundaries and how to set conditions on what help you are willing to provide, etc.

If you'd like me to elaborate I'll try. Legal stuff and the spiritual conflict it creates when we strive after sinless perfection in Christ is more complex than it really is possibly. Maybe it's us making it more complicated or the enemy. I don't know and each situation is different for me.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

But basically,
If they seek help from someone other than me (to get their individual licenses renewed)
Should I seek to inform the helper that my parents haven’t completed their continuing education?

You are asking a hypothetical question concerning an event which has not taken place. Talk to your parents ... let them know they are putting themselves and the salon owner at risk. Your parents might heed your advice and complete their courses as required.

Matthew 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.