Did Paul explain scripture or add to scripture?

[Blik]

I think I see where you're coming from.

I've been thinking for awhile that maybe we've invented a new religion called "Christianity" that has replaced everything in the Old Testament. Rather, Christ came to fulfill the Law and Prophets than to start a new religion. However, it was God Who cancelled the Law, not Paul; at least as far as our being "under" it.

Honestly, I don't personally know anyone who would say Paul or any of the New Testament writers are greater than Christ. It seems more like an intellectual construct or theory to me.

Thanks so very much for understanding what I suggest Christians think about.

I agree, no one thinks Paul is greater than Christ. I posted that idea knowing that, for the only way Paul could change what God stands for would be to think he was greater than Christ, and I knew no one thought Paul was greater. I wanted people to really think about that Paul explained God and Christ, didn't change anything of them.

Posters are really talking over that idea, giving good thoughts for and against it. I love that you understand my points.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Can you give me some examples of this?

Amazing thing to study. Praise God for the knowledge you have been given.

Hello Kolistus . . . This is a huge topic; one that I would like to write a book about.

Genesis 3:22-24 is the first example, to my knowledge, that gives a demonstration of what we are to expect, which is that if we eat from the Tree of Life, we are lifted of the Adamic Curse that includes the Sinful Way, or Nature of a person. This is what the entire Bible is about, which is for Christ to redeem us of the malady that Adam and Eve set into motion. Jesus fixes this problem. So, when we read of the Tree of Life in the Garden, we are reading of Jesus Christ on the Cross. If you would, please entertain the NLT, consider what is presented, and then consider it within your favorite translations.

Genesis 3:22-24 NLT - "Then the LORD God said, "Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!" 23 So the LORD God banished them from the Garden of Eden, and he sent Adam out to cultivate the ground from which he had been made. 24 After sending them out, the LORD God stationed mighty cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden. And he placed a flaming sword that flashed back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."

This is the purpose of Christ . . . the Purpose of Creation: To eat from only that of which grants Eternal Life. Jesus is the only "thing" that grants Eternal Life. Now, we know that this "live forever" cannot be in reference to the physical world because the physical world will not last forever. Genesis 3:22-24 is pointing to Christ on the Cross and His incredibly Holy Work. Here it is, and again, using the NLT (the KJV is also my equal favorite - both are amazing translations regarding Circumcision of Heart).

Colossians 2:10-15 NLT - "So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

If you're interested, the First Book of Adam and Eve confirms this notion, for this Book actually reports that as Adam begged and begged God to take away all of their new problems that they have incurred, they were told that humanity would have to wait "5000" years to eat of that incredible and Holy Fruit, which is Christ. When we read that God did not allow Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Life, this is to say that humanity must wait for Christ to receive this Holy Circumcision of the Heart. This means that when God said to Himself (or angels), "They will live forever," this is what it means to be Circumcised. No one can "live forever" without the Circumcision of Christ.

My friend . . . this is just the beginning. Then we must consider all of the Old Testament passages that were "kept hidden" as Paul teaches.

Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV - "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

God was Circumcising the hearts of those who He caused to lead Israel, such as Abraham, our Father of Faith (because his Heart was Circumcised by Christ), Moses, Aaron, Eldad, and Medad (by "accident"), David . . . and many many more. The Holy leaders, judges, kings, and even a few prophets were all Purified by Christ so as to be Led into Righteousness.

And then we have the Ezekiel passages, which clearly shows the Power of God in how He alone changes us. We don't change ourselves, but Scripture makes it clear that it is the Lord who causes change. Yes, there are passages that make it seem clear that we are to change ourselves and even Circumcise our own Hearts to the Lord, but these things are written so as to help keep this Plan of God "hidden" just as Paul described in Ephesians.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 KJV - "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

Ezekiel 11:19-20 KJV - "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God."

There are so, so many passages throughout scripture that deal exactly with the Promises above. And these [are] the Supreme Promises of God that few seem to recognize.

I could write probably a three to five hundred page book on this topic, as it is the absolute Centerpiece of our Holy Book. As stated, this is only a start. If you'd like to hear more, here is a link to a video on Circumcision of Heart and it might help even more:

Years ago, I began cataloging and categorizingScripture in an Excel Spreadsheet so that I could easily track ideas and concepts. So as I would read the Bible, I would literally be looking for answers to very specific doctrines and issues. This changed my life! Once I realized that the Bible revolved around Circumcision of Hearts, that was the day that the Bible actually began to make reasonable and logical sense. Until then, however, it was a total, complete Mystery (yet I somehow believed that I understood His Word - I didn't.) If we continue in our discussions, and if you are kind and show genuine interest, I would consider sharing this Excel Spreadsheet and even teach you how to use it. It is the single most important thing in my life other than the actual Bible. If I lost this spreadsheet, I would be completely devastated.

Ecclesiastes 12:9 NLT - "Keep this in mind: The Teacher was considered wise, and he taught the people everything he knew. He listened carefully to many proverbs, studying and classifying them."

 

[Dino246]

It is not a discussion of scripture to quibble over the word "authorize", or quibbling over the words used to express what is of God into language humans use to express God ideas.

You made a claim about what Scripture says. Scripture does not say what you claim. End of discussion.

 

[Blik]

You made a claim about what Scripture says. Scripture does not say what you claim. End of discussion.

Heavens to Betsy, GOOD!!!!

 

[Grandpa]

Nothing has changed . . . ever. Abel, the very first Prophet was saved just like we are today, except that the Death of Christ would eventually pay for Abel's sin. However, Christ Circumcised his Heart, granted Abel the ability to repent and Turn to Him, and was also given the guiding Holy Spirit. Same Plan of salvation. Christ has been Purifying Hearts from the very beginning so that they would obey. It won't be until the Day of Pentecost that the Spirit would be freely given. But until then, the Spirit was given sparingly so that Israel could be guided and led by either their Holy Leader, Judge, or Righteous king.

Anyway, the Plan of Salvation is the same, which is why Abraham is our Father of Faith. We must possess his specific form of Faith . . . and that was well before the Death of Jesus.

Romans 4:9-14 NLT - "Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles? Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. 10 But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised! 11 Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous--even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. 12 And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised. 13 Clearly, God's promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God's law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith. 14 If God's promise is only for those who obey the law, then faith is not necessary and the promise is pointless."

Why aren't we practicing Judaism right now, in order to be Gods People? If nothing has chaged?

Maybe its because the Lord changed something?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Why aren't we practicing Judaism right now, in order to be Gods People? If nothing has chaged?

Maybe its because the Lord changed something?

The Eternal Plan of Christ has been written upon Heavenly Scrolls. Those Scrolls have not changed and will never be changed. So if you want to believe that something has changed, knock yourself out. In fact, this is so unessential, I'm out of this thread. We shouldn't be arguing about something that is so utterly crystal clear. Sad.

 

[Blik]

Why aren't we practicing Judaism right now, in order to be Gods People? If nothing has chaged?

Maybe its because the Lord changed something?

We have an improved covenant, and some say that is a change and some say it is the same improved. Both people are correct, even if it sounds as if they oppose each other. There is a change, but the basic principles, the law of love, remains the same.

God is spirit, and there is a difference between flesh and spirit. There are laws written in stone, inflexible and without love or heart. Then there is a difference----some say that difference is a change, it cancels everything that came before, and some say it is the same law only in a new way that is much improved and more in keeping with the spirit of the law and God is spirit not flesh or stone.

Scripture gives an example when it tells us of the good Samaritan. The Pharisee obeyed the law in stone to keep the Sabbath but in doing this that Pharisee broke the law of love. Under the new covenant the proper way to keep the true spirit of the law would have been apparent. The law didn't change, but the new presentation of the law is much, much better and accurate. The law that was only in stone is now in our hearts.

Judaism is obedience to the physical commands like diet and cutting flesh and saying it is obedience to the spirit of the law. Through Christ, and as James the Just explained, that is not necessary at all. We are to be led to the law by the Holy spirit within us. That law can be summed up when we are told to love the Lord and the next, we are told, is like it--to love others. If we love we do not murder, steal, lie, or cut flesh.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

There is no change. How do we know? Because a True Jew is a True Christian, identified by a changed heart, produced by the Spirit (Rom 2:28-29). This is the Promise. This has always been the Promise.

The Law was specifically for Jews to be used as a temporary guardian (Gal 3:24). But, the Law never saved anyone (Act 13:39). There is no change. The Law did nothing for a person's soul. There is no change.

Circumcision of the Heart has ALWAYS been, and this is the Holy Path and Plan that counts for anything. Nothing has changed.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Thanks so very much for understanding what I suggest Christians think about.

I agree, no one thinks Paul is greater than Christ. I posted that idea knowing that, for the only way Paul could change what God stands for would be to think he was greater than Christ, and I knew no one thought Paul was greater. I wanted people to really think about that Paul explained God and Christ, didn't change anything of them.

Posters are really talking over that idea, giving good thoughts for and against it. I love that you understand my points.

Great explanation, thanks.

 

[Grandpa]

The Eternal Plan of Christ has been written upon Heavenly Scrolls. Those Scrolls have not changed and will never be changed. So if you want to believe that something has changed, knock yourself out. In fact, this is so unessential, I'm out of this thread. We shouldn't be arguing about something that is so utterly crystal clear. Sad.

Well lets break it down a little. It is sad that you think Christ changed nothing. And this change is "unessential".

Ezekiel 44:9 Thus saith the Lord God; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

That was before Christ.

This is after His Death, Burial and Resurrection;

Galatians 5:1-6
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

 

[Grandpa]

We have an improved covenant, and some say that is a change and some say it is the same improved. Both people are correct, even if it sounds as if they oppose each other. There is a change, but the basic principles, the law of love, remains the same.

God is spirit, and there is a difference between flesh and spirit. There are laws written in stone, inflexible and without love or heart. Then there is a difference----some say that difference is a change, it cancels everything that came before, and some say it is the same law only in a new way that is much improved and more in keeping with the spirit of the law and God is spirit not flesh or stone.

Scripture gives an example when it tells us of the good Samaritan. The Pharisee obeyed the law in stone to keep the Sabbath but in doing this that Pharisee broke the law of love. Under the new covenant the proper way to keep the true spirit of the law would have been apparent. The law didn't change, but the new presentation of the law is much, much better and accurate. The law that was only in stone is now in our hearts.

Judaism is obedience to the physical commands like diet and cutting flesh and saying it is obedience to the spirit of the law. Through Christ, and as James the Just explained, that is not necessary at all. We are to be led to the law by the Holy spirit within us. That law can be summed up when we are told to love the Lord and the next, we are told, is like it--to love others. If we love we do not murder, steal, lie, or cut flesh.

Your philosophy is COMPLETELY backwards of scripture.

We are not led to the Law by the Holy Spirit. You are led to the Law purely by Pride. Only a very prideful person could think they could obey a spiritual Law in the power and wisdom of their own carnal self.

The Law leads us to Christ and it is Christ who grows the fruit of the Holy Spirit in our Lives. It is this fruit that is obedience to God. Not any supposed following of written laws.