Do catholics worship God or the pope?

[GodMyFortress]

In this case, there is specific teaching about pray by Jesus Himself

Our Father in heaven, Hollow by thy name ......

Pray direct to the Father

Nor Jesus nor apostle teach pray to the death

That is a specific example of how to pray, but all my prayers are intended to God. Whether I ask for you to pray for me or the saints in heaven to pray for me, my prayers are still intended for God.

And you can’t know the Apostles didn’t teach what I’m saying is true. Do you think Paul just told Christians we were one in the body of Christ and didn’t explain what that meant to the people he was preaching to? Or who is eligible for baptism? This is the oral tradition preserved by the Church they helped established and its explanation about scripture that was passed down.

If you don’t belong to that church Paul and the Apostles established, you’re cutoff from that tradition.

 

[GodMyFortress]

never said I was offended, not sure what your problem is.
If you want to repent by paying $$$, as indulgences were kind of abused like bribes, then I suppose you could, its up to you.

or you could just say a bunch of hail marys. Although thats not really in the Bible.

Maybe Luther protested because he didnt have enough money to pay his for his indulgences, I am supposing rich people got off easier than poorer people. Or maybe he could see the money wasnt really being used for donating to charities or the charities were making off with it instead of it going to do the work it was meant for.

If you are truly repentent, say you killed someone, wouldnt you first apologise to the victims family, stop hating on them, and tell others not to do it as well. Instead, the way its done in catholic church is, you tell a priest, he gives you 10 hail marys to say, you make a donation to the church fund to buy new pew cushions, and the priest decalres you are forgiven.

You don’t need an indulgence to be saved, I’ve never sought one and I probably never will. Nor do you need to give money. And the words of the Hail Mary is taken from scripture except the last part, so you should probably do a little more homework there. Y’all add on to the Our Father.

 

[Jackson123]

That is a specific example of how to pray, but all my prayers are intended to God. Whether I ask for you to pray for me or the saints in heaven to pray for me, my prayers are still intended for God.

And you can’t know the Apostles didn’t teach what I’m saying is true. Do you think Paul just told Christians we were one in the body of Christ and didn’t explain what that meant to the people he was preaching to? Or who is eligible for baptism? This is the oral tradition preserved by the Church they helped established and its explanation about scripture that was passed down.

If you don’t belong to that church Paul and the Apostles established, you’re cutoff from that tradition.

I agree on all pray are to God, so no pray to Mary

But if you investigate catholic pray, they pray to Mary, entrust to Mary. What is the reason not directly to God!

 

[GodMyFortress]

I agree on all pray are to God, so no pray to Mary

But if you investigate catholic pray, they pray to Mary, entrust to Mary. What is the reason not directly to God!

Honestly, it’s a humbling decision when I have asked a Saint in Heaven to pray for me.

The times I’ve done it, it was during a time where I felt like I wasn’t living as holy a life as I could be living. So I wanted to ask for holy Christians in heaven to pray for me, along side my prayers directly to God.

I pray directly to God often. It’s just sometimes it doesn’t hurt to ask other Christians to pray for you, just like the epistle of James talks about.

 

[CS1]

Honestly, it’s a humbling decision when I have asked a Saint in Heaven to pray for me.

The times I’ve done it, it was during a time where I felt like I wasn’t living as holy a life as I could be living. So I wanted to ask for holy Christians in heaven to pray for me, along side my prayers directly to God.

I pray directly to God often. It’s just sometimes it doesn’t hurt to ask other Christians to pray for you, just like the epistle of James talks about.

Honestly, it’s a humbling decision when I have asked a Saint in Heaven to pray for me.

The times I’ve done it, it was during a time where I felt like I wasn’t living as holy a life as I could be living. So I wanted to ask for holy Christians in heaven to pray for me, along side my prayers directly to God.

I pray directly to God often. It’s just sometimes it doesn’t hurt to ask other Christians to pray for you, just like the epistle of James talks about.

and unbiblical

 

[DeanM]

http://jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Roman Catholicism/catholic_heresies-a_list.htm List of what catholics do and when it started. This is the problem I have with their "tradition"

 

[GodMyFortress]

and unbiblical

I’ve made my biblical case for it in this thread. Feel free to disagree.

 

[Unearthed]

Bible discussion forum is not RCC Bashing sight nor is it one to support the false doctrines of the RCC.

I'm not bashing anybody, I'm asking a question.
I cannot control what others have said in this thread.

 

[CS1]

I’ve made my biblical case for it in this thread. Feel free to disagree.

Actually no you have not. There is nothing in the word of God that says those who are alive are to pray to those who are dead saints.

it was wrong when my grandmother did it and my mother did it and when I did it. Those who teach such things are unbiblical and in great error. And if you keep promoting false TEACHING OF THE RCC YOU TOO WILL BE OUT OF HERE. AND THAT IS NO THREAT.

that is a promise. You have not provided one verse of Jesus, or the Apostles teaching us to pray to those who are dead.

You tried to allegorize the word of god by using elders in heaven presenting the prayers of the saint to God at the throne. they were carrying incense which represented those prayers of the living it did not say those who carried them Prayer or received prayer requests.

I love my mom and grandmother but as I told them I will tell you IF you do not know Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior "Mom" "you do not go to heaven you go to the other place."

No praying to any dead saint of the Mother of Jesus will stop that IF you don't know Jesus.

 

[CS1]

I'm not bashing anybody, I'm asking a question.
I cannot control what others have said in this thread.

That is is why I asked the question and I did not say you were

 

[Jackson123]

Honestly, it’s a humbling decision when I have asked a Saint in Heaven to pray for me.

The times I’ve done it, it was during a time where I felt like I wasn’t living as holy a life as I could be living. So I wanted to ask for holy Christians in heaven to pray for me, along side my prayers directly to God.

I pray directly to God often. It’s just sometimes it doesn’t hurt to ask other Christians to pray for you, just like the epistle of James talks about.

My dear brother.
there isn't biblical evident they can hear you

 

[ResidentAlien]

As the title says: do catholics worship God or the pope?

Do they allow the pope to come between them and God?

In answer to the first question, I think it's a bit much to say Catholics worship the pope. At least most Catholics you ask would say absolutely not.

However, the second question is a little easier to answer. Yes, they absolutely allow the pope and priests to come between them and God. That's the bread and butter of the whole thing.

 

[CS1]

Honestly, it’s a humbling decision when I have asked a Saint in Heaven to pray for me.

The times I’ve done it, it was during a time where I felt like I wasn’t living as holy a life as I could be living. So I wanted to ask for holy Christians in heaven to pray for me, along side my prayers directly to God.

I pray directly to God often. It’s just sometimes it doesn’t hurt to ask other Christians to pray for you, just like the epistle of James talks about.

the context of James 5 was to call ON the elders of that present fellowship of believers to anoint with oils and the prayer of faith will raise them up heal them and if they have committed any sins they will be forgiven. This never implied call on dead Elders to pray for you. This is pride and false teaching trying to hang a false doctrine on anything that will stick.

 

[GodMyFortress]

Actually no you have not. There is nothing in the word of God that says those who are alive are to pray to those who are dead saints.

it was wrong when my grandmother did it and my mother did it and when I did it. Those who teach such things are unbiblical and in great error. And if you keep promoting false TEACHING OF THE RCC YOU TOO WILL BE OUT OF HERE. AND THAT IS NO THREAT.

that is a promise. You have not provided one verse of Jesus, or the Apostles teaching us to pray to those who are dead.

You tried to allegorize the word of god by using elders in heaven presenting the prayers of the saint to God at the throne. they were carrying incense which represented those prayers of the living it did not say those who carried them Prayer or received prayer requests.

I love my mom and grandmother but as I told them I will tell you IF you do not know Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior "Mom" "you do not go to heaven you go to the other place."

No praying to any dead saint of the Mother of Jesus will stop that IF you don't know Jesus.

I have been having a good hearted discussion about the topic with the other poster. He wanted to talk about it, so I talked about it with him. I could say that Sola Scriptura is unbiblical by your reasoning. Nowhere in the New Testament does it explicitly say the Bible alone is the only authority for our faith. But I’m not jumping into people’s conversations calling their beliefs unbiblical, that’s what you just did.

 

[GodMyFortress]

the context of James 5 was to call ON the elders of that present fellowship of believers to anoint with oils and the prayer of faith will raise them up heal them and if they have committed any sins they will be forgiven. This never implied call on dead Elders to pray for you. This is pride and false teaching trying to hang a false doctrine on anything that will stick.

So you’re position is that only the prayers of Elders are powerful?

 

[GodMyFortress]

My dear brother.
there isn't biblical evident they can hear you

I know you want an explicit statement from the Bible to believe it, but I’m not alone in my belief. We’re not separated from our brothers and sisters in Heaven. The tradition of the apostles speaks throughout history on this subject. Here’s some statements from Augustine on this.

Saint Augustine of Hippo
It is true that Christians pay religious honor to the memory of the martyrs, both to excite us to imitate them, and to obtain a share in their merits and the assistance of their prayers [Reply to Faustus the Manichean 20:21 (c. A.D. 400)].

Saint Augustine of Hippo
This it was that the blessed martyrs did in their burning love; and if we celebrate their memories not in an empty form, and, in the banquet at which they were filled to the full, approach the table of the Lord, we must, as they did, also be making similar preparations. For on these very grounds we do not commemorate them at that table in the same way, as we do others who now rest in peace, by praying for them, but rather that they should pray for us, that we may walk in their footsteps [Tractates on John 84:1 (A.D. 416–17)].

Saint Augustine of Hippo
For the souls of the pious dead are not separated from the Church, which even now is the kingdom of Christ; otherwise there would be no remembrance made of them at the altar of God in the partaking of the body of Christ, nor would it do any good in danger to run to baptism, that we might not pass from this life without it; nor to reconciliation, if by penitence or a bad conscience anyone may be severed from his body [City of God 20:9 (c. A.D. 419)].

 

[DeanM]

Praying to the dead became catholic doctrine around 300 A.D. If its apostolic why did it take so long? I posted a link above that is very telling about when some of the tradition became doctrine.

 

[CS1]

I have been having a good hearted discussion about the topic with the other poster. He wanted to talk about it, so I talked about it with him. I could say that Sola Scriptura is unbiblical by your reasoning. Nowhere in the New Testament does it explicitly say the Bible alone is the only authority for our faith. But I’m not jumping into people’s conversations calling their beliefs unbiblical, that’s what you just did.

the title of this thread is :

Do catholics worship God or the pope?
Here is the issue, the question should be does the RCC teach to worship the POPE?

The people in the catholic church no one can answer do they
worship God or the pope?


BUT, we do know the RCC teaches that the Pope = father is, in fact, papal supremacy up to the same as Jesus Himself or greater in context to

1. concerning faith or morals
2. to be held by the whole Church

That is the issue because the pope who is a man can and has over the centuries replaced the word of God with his authority.


That being said You said :


"I’ve made my biblical case for it in this thread. Feel free to disagree."

answering about praying to dead saints. YOu can say that the concept of Sola Scriptura is unbiblical if you like however the term is correct Scripture alone interprets Scripture And The Lord Jesus Christ, Paul and Olt Testament Prophets have spoken very clearly to

The word of God or God's word being supreme.

John chapter 1: 1-4

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.


Psa 119:11
Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.


2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


ALL Scripture! Ole and new Inspired God-breathed authoritative and without Error.

That is just off the top of my head

Yet you have not one verse that states all prayer of dead saint or prayers to dead saints Gods hears.

BUT Jesus said " I AM the way (the only way ) I AM the truth ( the only truth) and I AM the life ( the only Life)

NO ONE comes to the Father BUT by ME. Period>. Not Mary, not a dead saint, and not even the pope can change that truth.

 

[CS1]

I have been having a good hearted discussion about the topic with the other poster. He wanted to talk about it, so I talked about it with him. I could say that Sola Scriptura is unbiblical by your reasoning. Nowhere in the New Testament does it explicitly say the Bible alone is the only authority for our faith. But I’m not jumping into people’s conversations calling their beliefs unbiblical, that’s what you just did.

look you have been nice yes and even sincere yet, you are sincerely wrong Biblically.

 

[CS1]

So you’re position is that only the prayers of Elders are powerful?

the prayer of those alive and the Lord Jesus Christ who the Bible says is making intercession for us.

Jesus yes, those elders live today yes. those dead Nope. In fact even angels who are at the throne of God will not allow you to bow to them